Bavaria or Bohemia?

[Ignoramus]

Well, this should be the final faction issue to be sorted out.

[Byzantine Prince]

To the strongest...

[Narayanese]

I was a bit too quick and voted Bohemia, now that I think about it Bohemia was more or less part of Hungary back then, so change my vote to Bavaria.

[Yggdrasill]

Bohemia would fit poorly into the mod as a playable faction. It was ruled interchangeably by Hungarian kings or various German noble houses. It was not independant. The situation is very similar to Croatia. It was recognized as a distinct kingdom, and kings often needed a separate coronation in order to become rulers of it, it had some administrative peculiarities, a separate governor, assembly etc. but for all intents and purposes it followed the path taken by its 'parent' state/ruler. And that parent ruler was never a Bohemian, he or she was a foreigner who saw Bohemia as an integral part of his/hers realm, but not the centre of it.

[Narayanese]

Bavaria was divided in 1375 between three brothers. In 1503 Bavaria was united again. Bavaria gained electoral status in 1623.

Kings of Bohemia:
1378-1419 Wenceslaus of Luxemburg (halfbrother of the hungarian king Sigismund)
1419-1420 Sigismund of Luxemburg (also hungarian king)
1420-1436 Hussite wars (a rebellion, mostly in bohemia)
1436-1437 Sigismund of Luxemburg (also hungarian king)
1437-1457 Habsburg kings (also kings of hungary and austria)
1458-1471 Jiři z Poděbrad (hussite)
1471-1526 Jagellonican kings (also kings of hungary)
1526-1619 Habsburg kings (also kings of hungary and austria)

"Wenceslaus, 1361–1419, Holy Roman emperor (uncrowned) and German king (1378–1400), king of Bohemia (1378–1419) as Wenceslaus IV, elector of Brandenburg (1373–76), son and successor of Emperor Charles IV. He was, even more than his father, a Bohemian rather than German king. Although gifted, he was given to drunkenness and violent fits of temper. It was largely through his support that his half-brother Sigismund was able to take possession (1387) of Hungary." -The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia

[General of Tokugawa]

Which one was more succesful?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I voted Bavaria, seems to me like they were more powerful during the time period.

[Meneldil]

Bohemia was much more important and powerful than Bavaria, even though it was ruled by foreign lords (but then, that happened to a lot of country).
With Bohemia, you could also script a good event such as the Hussite War.

[Narayanese]

Bavaria won.

Now how will Bohemia, Lusatia (=area between brandenburg and bohemia), Moravia, Brandenburg and the duchy of Luxemburg be represented? They were all ruled by the Luxemburg family in 1402 (and a little later they were all ruled by Sigismund). (correctr me if i'm wrongt)

[Yggdrasill]

Well that is what I suggested: that instead of territories like Austria, bavaria etc. we have families - Habsburg family, Luxembourg family and perhaps Wittelsbach or some other powerful family. It's a small change really, we are in fact always referring to Habsburg as a faction not Austria, also this is how it was done in original RTW - Julii, Scipii and Brutii family. Also corresponds more to the time since it was the noble families that were the driving force behind states, and ethnic background or regions meant little, states were peiced together by combining various regions, basically whatever nobility could claim by right of succession and hold on to by force of arms.

Families not regions is the way to go...

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I would also say unless some Bavarians would like to change their votes Bavaria has won, a very decisive and quick victory. But if there are major issues we can address them.

[Ignoramus]

But, we want to change the feel of this Mod, so as not to make the player feel this a Mod, but a different game entirely. Having families would remind us of Rome TW, but having the regions names: Saxony, Bavaria, and the Hapsburgs, wouldn't.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I could go either way on that, personally I would not care too much, but I think using the province names is best for simplicities sake.

[Ghorrit]

I dont know if the poll is still open but i would definately vote for Bohemia, they are an old and rich principality who have always been important in arts and trade although they werent independant for a long time as stated by others above. I would vote for them because on a whole they had a bigger impact on european developement than bavaria.

ps.
im really looking forward to this mod, so far it sounds great!
Keep up the good work
Ghorrit

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thanks for the encouragement.

Welcome to the org!


The poll is still open, but you cannot vote in any poll until you are a full member.

[QwertyMIDX]

I think it's a great idea to use families rather than territories as factions, this was the age of multi-ethnic empires held toghether by dynastic bonds, rather than nationalistic or ethnic sentiment.

[Brutus]

But, we want to change the feel of this Mod, so as not to make the player feel this a Mod, but a different game entirely. Having families would remind us of Rome TW, but having the regions names: Saxony, Bavaria, and the Hapsburgs, wouldn't.

When was "the Hapsburgs" ever a territory? It was a family name, and the only geographic location that can be attached to it is the small castle of Hab(icht)sburg in modern Switzerland. I think having families insteda of territories would be the way to go for the Holy Roman Empire. In fact, during most of the later Middle ages (from the mid-13th century onward) the three great families of Luxemburg, Wittelsbach and Habsburg were struggeling to get the most regions and power (for example, all three had one or more emperors in their midst). Other families, like Nassau and Hohenzollern, joined in the fun on a lesser scale. During the 15th century, the Burgundians broke into this power struggle and took over many of these lands on the Empire's western border(The Luxemburgs were by then dying out), and their possesions were finally (after 1482) incorperated into the Habsburg dominions.