For all veterans of STW and MTW if you wander here by

[Loinnreach]

To all who might wander here around.

http://totalwars.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67141#67141

When you mourn for the past, a part of you is there. You have to keep that in memory and go on. With doing this peace will settle in your mind and body.
Future is always unpredictable.

Regarding relations in TW community, people we know and we enjoyed talking with. Things have changed. Too many have already left and just few of us stayed. Golden ages of STW and some less bright of MTW have passed. A community we know back then has changed. Partly because of RTW as a game with many issues which needed to be solved and mainly because of people hesitation.

That period of a few months waiting is what killed the TW MP community.Unfortunately the community let the newcomers takeover and make this the dominant game style. While they complained and waited for patches a new community was formed and the old vets had nothing to go back to.

Few old clans are still insisting. Many new clans are found almost every weak and also disbanding in same time.

It is uncertain what it will bring in near future and how things will be envolving. It is time for us to realize this. After all, all good things have their end.

For the last time I bow to all players of TW MP series who left. A new era has begun.
It is on us what to do with the time which is given to us. I will stay here. I don't know for how long.Despite this I'm looking foward in the new beginning. Afterall time will tell us what we what will be.

VorCid

[Tomisama]

Still growing, every day!

1.7Bear7Clips
2.AggonyJim
3.AggonyKing
4.AggonyShields
5.Bravo
6.Chaos-Ektoras
7.CoR-Lord_AE2
8.Elthore
9.Forumite-Jammin
10.Forumite-Proper_Gander
11.Forumite-Shireknight
12.Forumite-SiiDeMon
13.FotN-Zyflex
14.FrozenJedi
15.GeneralTildor
16.Gullkassa
17.Hunter-King_George
18.Ichi
19.Imperial_Legionaire-Quentus
20.LegXGem-Vestorius
21.LofM-Bouwzie
22.LofM-Imorthorn
23.LofM-Kharn_The_Betrayer
24.LofM-Little_SNEAK
25.LofM-Psyco
26.LofM-Reeper
27.LofM-Romulus
28.LofM-Shadow
29.LofM-Shinobi
30.LofM-SkullBreaker
31.LuminousSun
32.Maji-MasterofPuppets
33.MizuDef
34.Mizu-MarcusCornelius
35.NDR_Dragons-YellowMelon
36.Nigel
37.NimbleNota
38.PraetorianGuard2004
39.RabidGibbon
40.RBL-Gazelite
41.RTK-Agravain
42.SC-KrooK
43.SC-Tryku
44.Silent-Wind
45.SPID- KingArtorius
46.SPID-ButcherA
47.SPID-GeneralMayhem
48.SPID-Madpierre
49.SPID-Malchance
50.SPID-Spartan
51.SPID-TheGore
52.SPID-thepig
53.Storm_Eagle_5
54.The_Mark
55.THOK-ArchdukeLion
56.THOK-KingAndre_TheHospitaller
57.THOK-SirCommoner
58.Tomisama
59.Triumvriant-Boneapart
60.VH-General_Beefy
61.VH-MarcusP
62.VH-NihilisticCow
63.VH-Wishazu
64.Voigtkampf
65.WinkyWars
66.Wolf_Kyolic
67.WOT-Brain_Deleted
68.WOT-DefenderofTroy
69.WOT-GeneralAlbino
70.WOT-Helmeteye
71.WOT-Maestrofiglio
72.WOT-MrBurgis
73.WOT-MrWillHelm
74.WOT-SparhawkI
75.WOT-StrikerWrath
76.WOT-TheSummoner

As of today, seventy five candles in the darkness, besides your own

Very soon will be having a Special Clan Wars Competition just for Code of Honor signers (with a special provision for non Clan CoHs).

Just a little more time is need to put it all together.

The spam jockeys will eventually bore each other to death and move on, and we will still be here

[Orda Khan]

While I can understand and empathise with your comments Vorcid, there are a few points that have not been raised. Yes, STW was a great time but there were plenty in the MP lobby,even then, who would exploit flaws in the game.

When MTW came along we had the first few weeks great fun and good games......Before the exploits became known.......and yet again there were plenty who abused this flaw in the game.

One of the biggest ruiners of the TW games.... 'Stat Compare Tool'

Yes it was very well made but what did it do, constructively, for the game?
IMO, Nothing.
It identified the top statistical army for a given florin level and ruined the fun that unique factions brought into the game. The CWC was littered with Euro armies of the ( yawn ) usual cav/sword construction. Just as you stated, MTW did not quite measure up to STW as a game but I fear that was mainly due to the way it was played. I remember a quote from Sinan ( a fine member of this community ) when talking about lines of pavs.......

" Was this the way the game was intended to be played? LOL. Of course not."

RTW came along and surprise, surprise, there are flaws in the game. And surprise, surprise, people are exploiting them......Nothing new there then. Unfortunately though, this time a vast majority of TW Vets have migrated from the game, again, just as you pointed out and we are left with a different lobby altogether.....Or is it? Yes there are some rude people who join games and start dictating how that game should be played, generally act rude such as telling people to "hurry up" etc, etc... Possibly there are more now but we have had such people before RTW.
What made the difference was knowing that [ insert player name ] is an honourable player and therefore we can expect a good game. With so many old names missing, the games have become a lottery.

Speaking for myself, I have never, knowingly, used an exploit. I have never studied stats nor used a stat compare tool. I always pick my armies based on fun and variety and never mathematical efficiency [ ie win at all cost ]
I am convinced that if others took this same approach, RTW would be no better and no worse than the others but, sadly, the need to 'pwn' is too strong. As I have said, this is not a new phenomenon but it is highlighted by the lack of those reliable old Vets

.......Orda

[Puzz3D]

One of the biggest ruiners of the TW games.... 'Stat Compare Tool'

It identified the top statistical army for a given florin level and ruined the fun that unique factions brought into the game.

The problem was the underlying imbalance in the game. The Stat Compare Tool just allowed a player to quantify it and find the statistically superior army quicker than if done by experience only. The game would have converged to the same narrow solution even without the Stat Compare Tool.

The combat system used in Total War games requires good balance for it work well. The popular idea that more units equals a better game isn't true unless those units are well balanced. I don't see the commitment from CA to balance this game to the degree necessary for the combat system to function properly. Maybe when players get tired of RTW, they will come back and play Samurai Wars which does have sufficient balance for the combat engine to play to it's full potential.

[Jochi Khan]

It all boils down to one question......Do people want to play TW or not?

Yes, I have played STW, MTW/VI and RTW.
Yes, there are imbalances in all three versions.

The Community.......Yes it has been a great community to meet up with and play enjoyable games.
As far as army selections go. Each individual chose armies to suit their style of play. Whether it was the 'pav shootout' 'cav charge' or the 'hand to hand' fighting.
As for the new type of community that is predominant in RTW, who is to blame for that? I believe it is the 'old community' that decided they wouldn't play RTW until they could play it the way they have played other TW games.
There are still players from the old clans in RTW and playing on a regular basis.

To quote Orda Khan.....
Yes there are some rude people who join games and start dictating how that game should be played, generally act rude such as telling people to "hurry up" etc, etc... Possibly there are more now but we have had such people before RTW.

Games I host I dont let them dictate the terms but I do ask 'No rules just honourable play' when asked what the rules are.
CoH.......I always have and always will play on similar lines to the Code of Honour.
It should not be necessary for people to 'sign up' to a code of conduct when playing. This is something that should be the norm.

Jochi

[Orda Khan]

The problem was the underlying imbalance in the game. The Stat Compare Tool just allowed a player to quantify it and find the statistically superior army quicker than if done by experience only. The game would have converged to the same narrow solution even without the Stat Compare Tool.

You know I disagree with you here Yuuki. The problem is the player not the game. Some people simply cannot play what they have without knowing the ultimate best choice for a given florin level. The Compare Tool just compounded that problem by laying it out in black and white for anyone to see the 'best army' When you couple this with the innate desire to 'pwn' the opponent we see the sorry state that MTW became. I hold the same view as Sinan, the game had so much more to offer but the players could not see that. It's all down to EGO.

The unique faction difference in RTW (and MTW for that matter) can provide an interesting , fun battle but regardless of balance, the player comes along that MUST win, MUST 'pwn'. That is where the problem lies.

I used to be into weightlifting in a big way when I was younger. I was bloody strong and people used to ask why I didn't compete. What's the point, when Joe nobody can come along, do a bit, dump some 'roids and blow me away?

I've come to the conclusion that it's a mindset thing and as long as we have inflated egos, these games will never be perfect. I sure as hell don't play these games to get stressed out over losing

.........Orda

[Tomisama]

One letter received:

Can you put my name under the section "refuses the code of honor" because the whole point of MP is to beat someone and say "ha ha I beat you!"

I accept some of the code but I just think its stupid

My answer:

If ever you should get to the point where just having a good time with people who will treat you with respect means more to you than winning, please let me know.

Salute!

Maybe not the best I could have done, it just came out that way.


You know it’s really kind of a shame to have to have a written Code, but as I hope you can see, it was born of necessity.

We were ushered into Total War with concepts of what it meant to be Samurai, and of the spirit of Bushido (Bu-martial arts; shi-warrior; do-the way).

They have had no such advantage…

[Puzz3D]

You know I disagree with you here Yuuki. The problem is the player not the game. Some people simply cannot play what they have without knowing the ultimate best choice for a given florin level. The Compare Tool just compounded that problem by laying it out in black and white for anyone to see the 'best army'. When you couple this with the innate desire to 'pwn' the opponent we see the sorry state that MTW became. I hold the same view as Sinan, the game had so much more to offer but the players could not see that. It's all down to EGO.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being competitive. Most players are competitive, and are going to try to win. The Stat Compare Tool helped players field more competitive armies in MTW. It put competitive and less competitive players on more of a level field in the unbalanced army purchase phase of the game. If you play Samurai Wars, no Stat Compare Tool is needed because the units are balanced, and they maintain predictable performance because upgrades are not used. The competitive player will gain no advantage over less competitive players by studying stats in Samurai Wars.