Thin end of the wedge

**InsaneApache** · 05-19-2005, 16:10

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...618189,00.html

Ok first up...I am economically conservative but socially liberal, however I do find that this governments stance is wrong.

I first met Duncan in '87. We were in hospital together and became good friends. In fact it was Duncan who introduced me to my present wife, so I veer from wanting to hug him to bitchslap him

he was/is a very funny man and had us all in stitches with a parody of Elvis' 'in the ghetto' using lyrics such as ' shopping in Netto'

I also know that his father loves him very much. However I DO know from conversations with him in the past that he would not want to live like this....in fact he once said that if this sort of thing did happen to him he personally asked me to put a 12 bore to his head.

Now it sems the government is going to make that choice for him....and others. That cannot be right.

PS when he got nicked one night walking home from the pub ...still carrying his pint

we nicknamed him ''Duncan disorderly' hehe

**Duke Malcolm** · 05-19-2005, 16:47

I am split over matters such as this.

On one hand, the person is still a person, he might still recover, he should be given the chance, and no-one should be able to say whether or not they should die, unless they are the family or the person themself, or they are pretty certain that there is no chance of recovery...

On the other hand, using money and such to keep this person alive when they might not recover is a drain on resources which could be used to save other lives.

If he said to people that if he ended up like this, then his wish should be respected, dying with dignity, and all that.

**Goofball** · 05-19-2005, 17:01

There is nothing for the government to decide here, IMO. If Duncan's dad is his legal NOK and he won't give permission to pull the plug, then no plug should be pulled.

**InsaneApache** · 05-19-2005, 17:12

The point is GB that it will not matter whatever his dad says, as it is the wish of Her Majesties government to save money by pulling the plug themselves. Dear God!!!.. and Jag thinks the tories are heartless...

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 05-19-2005, 21:59

So the government wants him to be "let go?" That's sick. It's a lot worse than trying to have him kept alive.

**Goofball** · 05-19-2005, 23:15

Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

So the government wants him to be "let go?" That's sick. It's a lot worse than trying to have him kept alive.

I agree. It's one thing for family members to be fighting to pull the plug. It's quite another to have the government trying to do it.

**JAG** · 05-20-2005, 07:25

Originally Posted by Goofball

There is nothing for the government to decide here, IMO. If Duncan's dad is his legal NOK and he won't give permission to pull the plug, then no plug should be pulled.

I completely agree. I also do not think this is a conservative view point to have socially, not at all, it is a humane view point, which, may I add, is what the left consistently argues for, not the right. If the person themselves are not in a position to decide if they want to die in this situation, then it is the next in line who should decide for them, hopefully in their best interests at heart. In this case it is the father and that is that his decision is final, no matter the cost. If it costs money then we have to pay for it, it is what govt is for it is what taxes are for, to save lives, protect lives and make the lives for all people in society the best it can be.

IA - I know the Tories are heartless, just because they are heartless in other ways - say not giving a shit about the chances of the poor and those living in deprived areas, effectively killing millions via the lengthening of waiting lists etc - does not mean the charge is not justified. Also it is the Tories who oppose further tax increases and investment in the NHS which is needed to keep people like this alive! Yet of course they will protest for his right to life forever, especially if he has money and can afford to do so on his own. If he is poor and it is the life over tax cuts the precedent has been set by previous Tory administrations and it doesn't fall in line with what they state here.

I must also state that as well as govt having not a single right in stating whether this person should live or die - they should simply provide the ability for him to decide on his own - doctors and medical professionals also have no right to make the decision, they too should simply provide the treatment if asked to do so. Advise yes, take it upon themselves to make the choice, never. It doesn't even matter if the families are raging Christian fundamentalists and are chasing a lost cause of their new born child who is 95% likely to die before it's 1st birthday - as another recent case over here had it.. - I will support the family every time.

So the government wants him to be "let go?" That's sick. It's a lot worse than trying to have him kept alive.

I always find it terribly hard to stomach when someone who is so pro the death penalty comes up with statements like this, you sir are a hypocrite.

**Alexander the Pretty Good** · 05-20-2005, 21:40

I completely agree. I also do not think this is a conservative view point to have socially, not at all, it is a humane view point, which, may I add, is what the left consistently argues for, not the right.

It makes me feel so warm inside to realize I'm not actually a conservative, and that only liberals can be humane.

I always find it terribly hard to stomach when someone who is so pro the death penalty comes up with statements like this, you sir are a hypocrite.

Hmm. I never realized I was "so" pro-death-penalty.

Like it has been said before, Terri Shiavo's biggest mistake was not killing someone; if she had, she would have been defended against those mean conservatives. However, the same anti-death-penalty crowd is pro-euthanasia, if one is to generalize.

Personally, I see a big differance between a 30-something guy who rapes and murders a teenage girl and a guy who gets mugged and has an asthma attack. If you don't...

At least we agree that the government has no right to pull the plug on the guy against his father's (and next-of-kin's) wishes.

**InsaneApache** · 05-20-2005, 22:30

As I'm personally involved in this case I feel a lot of mixed emotions. After all this is a guy I got stoned and drunk with, I swore at and told dirty jokes with ......well you guys get the idea.

When it comes to the personal level, all this chatter...is just that ....backgound noise.....