Arthurian : Total War

[Agraes]

Erps, no more pagan remaining in Britain at this time ! Or very few ones, but all the druids of Britain were slained by the Romans in Mona around 50 AD. Britons (except thoses of Strathclyde and Gododdin) at this time were romans and christians.
Irish were christians also, South Picts have been converted by St Ninnian few time before, North Picts by Columba around 550, Franks under Clovis reign, Wisigoths were aryan christians, only Saxons and Angles stay pagans, to the late VIIth century if I remember

[Ianofsmeg16]

well Agraes, count me on the team for research, any research you want i'll do ( i have a large library near me so i can go there)

[Agraes]

The city list given by Nennius in his 'Historia Brittonum', Xth century.

Caer Guorthigirn : Vortigern's Fortress (=Dynas Emrys ?)-> for Gwynedd ?
Cair Guinntguic : Winchester (Venta Belgarum) -> for Guinntguic
Cair Mincip : Verulamium ?
Cair Ligualid : Carlisle -> for North Rheged
Cair Meguaid : Lindisfarne -> for Bryneich/Bernicia
Cair Colun : Colchester ? -> for Colun
Cair Ebrauc : York -> for Ebrauc
Cair Custoeint : Constantin's Fortress
Cair Caratauc : Caradoc's Fortress
Cair Grauth : Cambridge -> ?
Cair Maunguid : Manchester -> ?
Cair Lundein : London -> Lundein
Cair Ceint : Canterbury -> Kent
Cair Guiragon : Canterbury ?
Cair Peris : Llanperis ?
Cair Daun : Doncaster -> ?
Cair Legion : Chester (Deva) -> Gwynedd ? South Rheged ?
Cair Guricon : Wroxeter -> ?
Cair Segeint : Caernarvon -> ?
Cair Legeion Guar Uisc : Caerleon-Upon-Uisc -> Gwent or Glywising
Cair Guent : Caerwent -> Gwent ?
Cair Brithon : Dumbarton (Dun Breatann) -> Strathclyde
Cair Lerion : Leicester ?
Cair Drathou : Drathou Fortress
Cair Pensa vel Coyt : Penselwood fortress
Cair Urnac : Urnac Fortress -> Ynis Mona ?
Cair Celemion : Celemion Fortress -> Celemion
Cair Luit Coyt : Wall-by-Lichfield -> ?

[Agraes]

well Agraes, count me on the team for research,

Ok, nice

So Team :
- Agraes (Project Leader, Historical research & codding)
- Ian_of_smeg16 (Historical research)

-> contact me on MSN

[Ianofsmeg16]

The city list given by Nennius in his 'Historia Brittonum', Xth century.
Cair Daun : Doncaster -> ?

Will be in south rheged(sp?), lol include it cos i was born there

[Spongly]

Well, I'd be happy to be a Pictish and Saxon expert - Saxon stuff is a hobby, but my degree is "MA (Hons) Celtic Civilisation, and I did a few courses on the Picts.

Speaking of which, the evidence that Columba ever converted the Picts is slim - Bede says he did, but the Life by Adomnan of Iona says no such thing, and no later tradition to that effect exists in the north either.

Also, for units for all sides, I would consider them according to their social position rather than equipment. For example, having "Saxon Ceorls", and "Thegns", "Hall Thegns", "Gesithas" and so on is much better than "light and heavy spearmen", in my opinion - also, huskarl is a much later Danish term for a household warrior. A King's bodyguard or companion is a "heorthgeneat" or "gesith".

Picts should get a nice pike phalanx too - I'll try and dig out some pics of the Aberlemno stone to show you what I mean on that.

Anyway, sorry to babble, but I'd be very enthusiastic about helping out with this on the research front, so if you need any help, give me a shout!

[Ianofsmeg16]

wow, i feel humbled, theres this guy with a masters history and all i have atm is a 'C' grade in my Mock GCSE history exams. oh and a library...

[Ianofsmeg16]

Agraes, i added you to my msn, i hope you dont mind

[Agraes]

It sounds really nice, Spongly ! For the moment I have only put 'standarts' for all faction. Thrashaholic have PM me for Briton units, so now with you we have Briton/Welsh, Saxon and Pictish specialists. Really good !
We only need now an Irish specialist, but I have contacted one.

[Ianofsmeg16]

so hows the mod coming??

[Agraes]

I have spoke with Ranika, member of EB and specialist of the Celts, he have wrotten really interesting posts on the dedicated Age of Vikings and Fanatics forum for the Gaels. He is very busy but he will try to help us, so the team is now :
Team :
- Agraes (Project Leader, Historical research & codding)
- Ian (Historical research)
- Spongly (Historical research - Saxon and Pictish specialist)
- Thrashaholic (Historical research - Briton/Welsh specialist)
- Ranika (Historical research - Irish specialist)

I will edit faction, provinces and unit lists with some changes tomorow. This is the work we have do done in the following weeks :
- Finish provinces discussions by adding others kingdoms and find all cities.
- Discuss units, if you have you can post some pictures associated.

[Ranika]

Scots should be called Dal Riadans, Scotland wouldn't exist for a very long time from the start of this period (and not even within this period); the Irish and Dal Riadans should share the same units for the most part. Dal Riada is seen just as a kind of tribe in this early period, only around 500 AD is it recognized as a seperate kingdom. I offer the same unit list for age of vikings and fanatics; they really changed very little in this period. The clothing worn by both; a long shirt to the knee (kilts didn't exist yet), a shoulder cloak (covers just the shoulders and upper chest), boots that come up over the ankle, a belt.

For factions, I recommend; Dal Riada, the Ui Neill, and the Mumainha (if you have the space). The Mumainha also paint themselves with blue dye, so remember that in addition to the information above when doing their skins. An important thing to bear in mind; the Dal Riadans considered themselves Irish, not a seperate group, in this period. They used pretty much all the same traditions and soldiers, many of which (like slingers, berserkers, etc.) they dropped later on or used substantially less. Also, while almost all of these units have throwing spears, unless mentioned, they don't fight as skirmishers.

Kernbannal ('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers) -
Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts. Later, kerns would become the basic soldier of Irish armies, but in this period are only militia.

Soikernbannal ('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good) -
Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.

Sleanaghta (Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.

Tuanaghta (Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.

Claiomhnaghta (Mid-length swordsmen with javelins, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. Faster than an axe, and generally more wieldy than a spear, it allows the soldier using it to manuever into position for thrusts and slashes. The typical Gaelic sword is shorter than a longsword, but not a shortsword. It generally has a leaf-shaped blade, meant to offer wide, sheering cuts, and devestating thrusts that open wide, gaping wounds. It is accompanied with a heavy Gaelic targe, and three light throwing spears; these spears are favored for swordsmen, so to enhance the mobility of these soldiers, but keep them able to fight in the traditional Gaelic manner.

Gaemornaghta (Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, or schiltron, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.

Guirran (Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.

Amguirran Ridire (Gaelic heavy cavalry with axes/swords, and lance, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, should be a bit late period) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On horseback, they form the Amguirran (heavy horsemen); Gaels don't tend to use much heavy cavalry, but when they do, they form a powerful reserve on the field for mowing down enemy infantry.

Ridire (Gaelic heavy infantry with axes, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, throwing spears) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On foot, they form heavy infantry soldiers, with throwing spears, like most other Gaelic infantry, to disrupt an enemy line before charging. When defending, they use a tight shieldwall, to absorb charges.

Arras (Gaelic general unit, foot nobles with swords, scale armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, javelins) -
Description - Gaelic 'nobility' are drawn from numerous places; everyone from the lowest chief to the high king are considered Arras, as well as indepedent, wealthy merchants and traders. They can afford the best training, the best equipment, and the best soldiers to support them. Like other Gaels, they carry javelins to throw at their enemies before charging, and form a tight shieldwall-like formation to absorb an attack. They use long slashing and thrusting swords, which are fairly rare among Gaels. The heavy Gaelic targe, good quality scale armor, and a well-made iron helmet, provide them great protection against their enemies.

Rastriagha (Berserkers, use a cudgel or hammer, round shield, probably wearing a crucifix (they were fanatics of different saint cults, and also generally trained soldiers), no armor) -
Description - The Gaels have their own berserker tradition, stemming from pagan times, but adapted well into the Christian era. The Irish are generally very fervent people; the most fervent soldiers tend to belong to saint cults, such as the cult of St. Finbar. Their devotion to their people and the Church keeps them constantly training. Many even join monastaries and are actually monks or priests. In battle, they enter a kind of religious-inspired frenzy, and kill anyone they see as a threat to Ireland or Christianity.

Inishnaghta (Irish islanders from the satellite islands of Ireland, with heavy cloaks, no armor, large round shield, bipenne axe (two blades), heavy throwing spears, leather helmet, painted skin regardless of faction, Ui Neill and Mumainh only; available in the western provinces of Ireland only) -
Description - The islanders of Ireland live among the many sattelite islands. They fight with a version of the Gaelic axe, with two blades, and carry heavy throwing spears. They still paint their skin, and are some of the bravest soldiers in Ireland, though they wear no armor, but a helmet, and instead use a heavy cloak as defense.

Maiobhanaghta (Gaelic slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Gaels. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.

Caeisornaghta (Gaelic macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace} or modified work hammer, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for centuries, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head, or a hammer head. They are another arm of Gaelic infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.


On Gaelic structures; the Gaels built stone-faced ring walls around their largest towns and cities, called cashels. The center of the settlement is generally the local chief, chieftan, or king's personal residence, or that of a powerful judge, businessman, or clergyman. This can be a manor, but the most extravagant were generally large stone towers. The Gaels built less permanent dirt paths, but also more permanent wood 'highways', and raised roads in swamps. Gaels built round structures mainly.

Place names in Ireland; Meath is Midhe, capitol is Teamhaidh/Teamhair (Tara), Ulster is Ulaid, and is divided into three regions (Oirgaillia/Airgallia; East Gaels, capitol of Eahmain Macha, with Armagh in the south, actually the southern region of Ulster, Ulaidh, capitol of Raithmhor; takes up the eastern side of Ulster; Ui Neillia, the western side of Ulster, capitol of Cenell, depending on period), Leinster is Laigin, capitol of Dun Ailinne, Connacht is in two; Connaght (the northern 2/3rds; capitol of Cruachu) and Tuad (the southern 1/3rd, capitol of Killardan; eventually became Tuadmumu), Munster is in two; Desmumu (eastern half, capitol of Caiseal), and Eoghanaght (western half, capitol of Orliglin). Other potential regions (give the scale of the map); Inisharanna (capitol of Inishmhor), and a whole mileu of clan regions.

Remember that Ireland and Britain are much more heavily forested in this period, and both are covered in rivers.

[Agraes]

UPDATE

FACTION LIST
Playables
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia
- Rheged
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel
- Gwent & Glywysing
- Dyfed

IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada

PICTS
- Picts (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Juts (Pagans)

FRANKS
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)

So 20 factions for the moment. Hoping we will have enought slots !

PROVINCES LIST
* I need somes capitals as you see (but for the Britons it will be easy to find few ones, exemple capital of Lundein = Caer Lundein/Londinium)
* If you want others provinces (I don't have put the provinces of Gaul yet, I will add them later), tell me.

BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - Catichean
- Abron - Abrondihanna
- Fidach - Craig Phadrig?
- Ce - Cechean (Keith)
- Circind - Aberlemno?
- Fotla - Restenneth
- Fortiu - Dundurn?
- Fibb - Abernethy
- Domon - Foncehean
- Aerdrognan (Orkney) - Aerdrognan

BRITAIN, Dal Riada :
- Cenell Baetain - Iona?
- Cenell Loairn - Dun Maoth
- Cenell Gabrain - Dunadd

BRITAIN, Britons :
- Strathclyde - Dun Breatann (Dumbarton)
- Cumbria - ?
- Galwyddel (Galloway) - Din Rheged (Dunragit, near Stranraer)
- Manau - Ad Vallum
- Gododdin - Trapain Law (near Heddington)
- Din Eydin - Din Eidyn (Edinburgh)
- Bryneich – Cathraeth (Catterick)
- Caer Wenddoleu - Caer Wenddoleu
- Ebrauc - Caer Ebrauc/Eboracum (York)
- Dunoting (North Penines) - Dent?
- The Peak (South Penines) - Din Pabo (invention)
- North Rheged – Caer Ligualid (Carlisle)
- South Rheged – Caer Legion/Deva (Chester)
- Goddeu - Caer Goddeu (invention)
- Elmet - Campoduno* (Leeds)
- Gwynedd - Din Conwy (Deganwy)
- Meiryonydd
- Rhos - Din Arth
- Ynis Manaw – Cashtal Rosien
- Ynis Mon - Abberfraw
- Domnonia - Caer Uisc/Isca (Exeter)
- Durotrigia - Caer Durnac/Durnovaria (Dorchester)
- Kernyw (for me only exist after the battle of Dyrham, 577 ) - Tintagel
- Glastenning - Din Cad (South Cadbury Hill)
- Ynis Weith - Din Weith (invention)
- Baddan - Badd/Baddon/Badon/Aquae Sulis (Bath)
- Gwinntguic – Caer Gwinntguic/Venta Belgarum (Winchester)
- Celomion – Caer Celomion (Silchester)
- Lundein - Caer Lundein/Londinium (London)
- Ceri – Caer Ceri (Cirencester)
- Gloui - Caer Gloui/Caer Glew/Glouvia (Gloucester)
- Pengwern - Viroconium* (Wroxeter)
- Gwent - Caer Went (Caerwent)
- Ergyng - Caerleon-upon-Uisc/Caer Legionis (Caerleon)
- Glywising - Caer Teif (Cardiff) or Dinas Powys
- Dyfed/Demetia - Caer Myrddin (Carmarthen)
- Brycheiniog - Caer Sws
- Ceredigion - Din Ceredig (invention)
- Builth - Caer Beris
- Powys - Dinas Bran or Caer Meguaidd/Meifod or Caer Dolforwynn

BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Sussex - Andredesceaster (Pevensey)
- Kent (Juts) - Canterbury
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Essex - Colchester

BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - Leicester
- Lindsey - (Lincoln)
- Bernicia - Lindisfarne
- Deira - ?

IRELAND, Dal Riada :
- Dal Riatta - Dun Ranma (This is the name of the fortress on the coast according to the 'West' cycle, that was captured by the Ui Neill, and effectively expelled the Dal Riadan kingdom from Ireland (though the Dal Riadans still acted as if they were one of the kingdoms)) - Dal Riatta

IRELAND, Ui Neill :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor - Volunta
- Oirulaidh - Eahmain Macha - Eoradha
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill - Ui Neill
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha - Ui Daron
- Mide - Teamhaidh - Ui Oir Neill ('East Niells'; the Ui Neill controlled Teamhaidh as defacto leaders at the time, hence their later claims to 'proper' title of high king, though eventually the east Niells split from the rest of the Ui Neill; also important to note, this is not a big place at the time, it was originally intended just for the families of those who worked in the temples/churches at the hills, so it hadn't really built up much yet)

IRELAND, Mumainha :
- Tuad - Killardan - Ui Broann
- Desmumu - Caiseal - Ui Cormac
- Urmumu - Orliglin - Ui Conchobar
- Gabhonnaoi (Yes, this should be Mumainha, Conglach of Desmumu controlled the chiefs here as his vassals) - Mondonnan - Gabhona

IRELAND, Rebels :
- Goirmide - Dun Rann - Ui Conn
- Oiriagh - Dun Riagh - Riaghan
- Roirragh - Breganna - Braigan
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor - Aranna
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne - Laigini
- Ard Mammo – Cruachu - Connaghta
- Oigallion - Dun Badon - Badon
- Amroi - Dun Amroi - Amroi
- Sloaigha - Rethconn - Relliagh

GAUL, Britons :
- Kernow - Carahès
- Poher - Castel Conomore
- Domnonée - Alet
- Bro-Erec - Aula Regia (Auray)
- Darioritum - Darioritum (Vannes)

UNIT LIST
* Here we have to find others ideas, and to change generic names and standart unit 'heavy spearmen', an others, by more historical ones.
* I also need ideas for regional units (like Domnonian cavalry or Llydaw Blackshields)
* Check https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=86 for an updated list with descriptions.

BRITONS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
- Marca Contwn (Contus cavalry, Sarmatian's inspired cavalry with long spear but no shield and heavy armor)
- Marchogluoedd (Light cavalry)
- Marca Dumonyna (Domnonian cavalry, need to control Domnonia)
- Marca Llydaw, (Llydaw cavalry, need to control Brittany)
- Teulu

Infrantry :
- Rherel (Heavy spearmen)
- Gwaywffynabwre (Clan spearmen)
- Bonheddwyr
- Rhyfelwyrmawr ("Great Warriors")
- Aeson Llydaw (Blackshields of Letavia, need to control Brittany)
- Bêrfelawre Merionydd (Merionydd long spearmen)
- Arwrweision
- Aulue (town militia)
- Galweddyl Aulue (Gaelic levies)
- Cleddyfcludwra (Sword carriers)
- Milwre
- Campwyrau (Champions)
- Rherel Manau (Heavy Manx Spearmen)
- Galwyddel Ymyll
- Rhyfelwyr Rheged
- Aumabellu
- Galwyddel nobles axemen*
- Strathclyder Swordsmen*


Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Saethwre (Bowmen)
- Rhyfelwyr
- Ardue (Levies)
- Fwnmilwre (Slinger)
- Helwyr (Huntsmen) (like the Welsh Bandit of Viking Invasion)
- Saethwre Powys
- Ardu (Levies)
- Fwnmilwre (Slingers)


IRISH UNITS (lot is done with the great help of Ranika) :
Cavalry :
- Guirran
- Amguirran Ridire
- Carpata

Infantry :
- Kernbannal
- Sleanaghta
- Tuanaghta
- Claiomhnaghta
- Gaemornaghta
- Ridire
- Arras
- Rastriagha
- Inishnaghta
- Caeisornaghta
- Ruardi-Laecha (Ui Neill only, elite)
- Audheran-Laecha (Dal Riada only, elite)
- Corcanneitae (Mumainha only, elite)
- Dinuadda-Claiomhnaghta

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Soikernbannal
- Maiobhanaghta

PICTISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Marchan
- Marchan Tho
- Mormaers

Infantry :
- Ludodaoer
- Schiltron
- Chodaoer
- Northern Warriors
- Gairlom (spearmen)
- Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
- Aumue Boai
- Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Huntsmen
- Youths
- Cingalom (slingers)
- Saiogdaoer (bowmen)

WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.

FRANKS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Mounted Antrustions (King’s Warband)
- Gallic light cavalry

Infantry :
- Antrustions
- Foederati
- Frankish Warriors
- Miles
- Frankish champions

Skirmishers :
- Frankish Freemen
- Frankish archers

SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Cnihtas ("Mounted Retainers")
- Horswhealas

Infrantry :
- Gesithas ("Companions")
- Heorthgeneats ("Hearth-Friends")
- Duguth (Older Warriors)
- Geoguth (Younger Warriors)
- Ceorls ("Peasants")
- Wulfbyrne ("Wolf-shirts")
- Wræccan ("Wanderers")
- Hall Teghn (general unit)*

Skirmishers :
- Geburs ("Serfs")

Others :
- War Hounds*

MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS :
- Frison Pirats*
- Juts Warriors*
- Wræccan (Anglo-Saxon)
- Gasraidha (Irish)
- Babuanna (Irish)
- Horswealas

I also quote there a PM of Thrashaholic with the description of some Britons units, he have done it in the past for a such mod on Viking Invasion.

Cavalry

Teulu-

Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough hilly and mountainous terrain of Britain, the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.

Royal unit of 40 men
Strong charge
Very good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured

(Should be pretty expensive)

Infantry

Merionydd long spear-men

The spear was the weapon of choice in Wales, with those from the North being particularly skilled in its use. The men of the Merionydd area of Gwynedd were renowned throughout for their superb ability with the spear. The general consensus amongst the Welsh was: “the longer the spear the better”, and as such the men of Merionydd carried spears as long as pikes. As well as their pikes, they had small round shields and fought in Phalanx-like formations.

60 man unit (best in deep formations etc.),
fast,
good defence
weak attack,
no armour
only available in Gwynydd

Ryfelwyr

Constant in fighting between the petty kingdoms of post-Roman Britain and skirmishes with the English led to the Britons becoming accustomed to war, they became a “jack of all trades”, perfectly suited to irregular warfare. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics of the Britons were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.

60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
poor morale

Bonheddwyr

The Bonheddwyr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of a Chieftain’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.

40 man unit
fast
strong charge
very good attack
good defence
armoured
good morale

Arwrweision

Literally mean ‘brave men’, the Arwrweision are the veterans of numerous battles, they are the non-noble elite of a British Chieftain’s army. It was considered an honour amongst Britons to be drafted into military service, so all able-bodied men had a weapon and were up for a fight. Carrying similar equipment to their fellow peasants, swords, bows and shields, the defining characteristic of the Arwrweision is that, although they share their comrade’s eagerness for battle, they don’t share their eagerness to run away.

60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
very good morale

Helwyr (Huntsmen)-

The Welsh people were keen huntsmen and used the hunt to practice the skills needed in battle. There are numerous Welsh stories and poems linked with their passion for hunting, most notably the tale of Prince Llewelyn and his greyhound Gellert. To be a good huntsman meant a men could command a powerful role in the royal courts and society in general, and could become very rich. The Helwyr equipped powerful bows, enabling them to kill the toughest of quarry, but very little close combat weaponry, thus should be kept out of melees.

60 man unit
Very Fast
Very good missile attack/ very accurate
Poor in close combat
Skirmishers
No armour

[Ianofsmeg16]

sounds good to me!! is there any research you want me to do? provinces, military, buildings etc...?

EDIT: I can also do concept art for units, but i need to figure out how to incorperate them onto my computer withou a scanner...

[Agraes]

Ian, if you want you can :
- found out the different capital cities for each province
- search about architecture of the different factions
- search about unit ideas for each faction (and change english names to celt/saxon names)

You can do some concepts art, and take a photo of those to put it on your PC ! Anyway, Lucterios (who works with me on Gallia : Total War) may do some concept arts later, when he have finished with those of Gallia TW.

[Ranika]

No Fianna units for the Irish factions. The Fianna were destroyed during Christianization. Some converted and became bodyguards of the kings, but others saw Christianity as a threat, and turned on the kingdoms (in essence, committed treason) and were destroyed in battle. If you want a special unit like that, maybe the Ruardi-Laecha (Red Warriors). They used longswords, round shields, javelins, wore chain armor, painted their faces with red dyes, and wore a red under-tunic, and fought as a type of elite warrior, on foot and on horseback, but were pretty rare.

[Agraes]

Very nice idea ! It sounds intersting to me if the differents factions will have an elite unite. Ruardi-Laecha may be very few number in each unit (less than 30), and take a long time to train.

Anyway they are more historical than the 'Hounds of Culann' that seems to be featured in the xpack.

[Ranika]

I should note that the Dal Riadans didn't use them, so it'd probably be best to have a different special elite for them, possibly Audheran-Laecha or Coricanneitae.

The first were elite spearmen, fought unarmored, covered themselves in a kind of white powder, and mostly relied on agility in combat.

Corcanneitae were also used by the men of Munster; they were 'naked fanatics', essentially. Would have an axe, shield, cloak, otherwise be naked.

[Myrddraal]

Sorry guys, but I've lost that map. Sorry if I got ur hopes up

[Agraes]

No matter Myrddraal, thanks you anyway

I think that your map wouln't be 100% compatible with BI, so we got to make a new one with the map of BI (lot of changes... maybe we can make it partially). Same issue for the units skins, but I think we can make a few ones this summer, we will see if we got skinners in the team !

[Spongly]

Saxon Units

Some Saxon Units

Gesithas ("Companions")
These are the elite forces of the great Saxon kings and athelings. Handpicked young warriors given the very best equipment and fed from the lord’s table. They swear the mead-bargain with their lord, giving loyalty to the death in return for mead, wealth and land. It is considered the greatest disgrace to live if your lord dies, and such men will be condemned to live as exiles. As a result, these units have exceptional morale, and will fight to the death rather than retreat unless their lord orders it.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, mail shirts and helms, all decorated to mark them out from lesser units)

Heorthgeneats ("Hearth-Friends")
This unit represents the hearth-troops of the eorldermen of the land – these nobles are usually chosen from the veterans of the king’s gesithas, and administer land and raise their own warbands. While not as well equipped or skilled as the king’s warriors, these men swear the same oaths to their own lords. They form an elite core of Saxon armies.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, some armour and helms. Noble, but not as spectacular looking as above.)

Duguth (Older Warriors)
Thegns are the lowest rank of landholding noble in Saxon society, and are usually either born into the role or chosen from their earl’s warband. They raise their own retinues of warriors, and bring them to battle when their lord calls. These men represent the older veterans of such a warband. They are not all that well equipped or fast, but they are stubborn and excellent at holding the line.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, lang-seaxes and helms)

Geoguth (Younger Warriors)
These men are the younger, unmarried warriors of the warbands of the land’s thegns. They are fierce and aggressive, hoping to make a name for themselves and win great rewards from their lord. What they lack in experience, they make up for in enthusiasm. They throw their javelins before engaging the enemy in hand to hand combat.

(Light infantry with spears, shields, helms, javelins and seaxes)

Ceorls ("Peasants")
Ceorls are the ordinary freemen and farmers of Saxon society. They are only very rarely called up to fight, usually only in times of emergency. They are all trained to some degree, as all Saxon freemen own and practice with weapons, but they cannot be expected to hold professional troops for long. They are at their best when standing in a shield wall adding weight to more experienced troops or outflanking the enemy.

(Light Infantry with spears, shields and seaxes, Phrygian hats)

Geburs ("Serfs")
Poorer freemen are mustered for battle with whatever poor weapons they have. Usually they are employed as unarmoured skirmishers, using slings. Some may also carry javelins or staff slings (possibility for more units). They are fast runners, and most live as hunters or fishermen so are quite good at using the terrain to their advantage. Their morale is fragile though, and they cannot be expected to fight hand to hand – that is work for men of noble birth!

(Light infantry with slings and seaxes, Phrygian hats)

Wulfbyrne ("Wolf-shirts")
Since the early days of the German tribes right through to the Viking age, the northern peoples have a tradition of fanatical warriors dedicated to Woden, the god of war and slaughter. These men are utter fanatics who believe themselves invulnerable to weapons, and run into battle wearing only the pelts of wolves. They are impetuous, ferocious and almost unequalled warriors, but there are only a few of them to be mustered. They are best used for breaking enemy shield walls so that other units can pour in behind them.

(Light infantry with wolf pelt cloaks, shields and battle-axes)

Wræccan ("Wanderers")
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.

(Light Infantry with shields, swords, helms and javelins)

Cnihtas ("Mounted Retainers")
Saxon nobles rode to battle, but dismounted to fight. There is good evidence though that they would remount to pursue the enemy. Because this is impossible in RTW, it may be worth having a cavalry unit available to the Saxons. These men are nobles, but cannot really be expected to do much fighting from horseback. They should only be used for harrying the flanks or pursuing fleeing enemies.

(Light Cavalry with shields and spears)

Other Ideas:

Scyldburh: The Saxons used two main battle formations – the shield wall was the main defensive one. It consisted of a long line of interlocked shields two or three ranks deep, something like the Testudo but with a long frontage.

Swinwecg: The swine-wedge is an offensive formation that can only really be formed by experienced troops. The leader is usually at the front – the “ordfruma” (point leader). The whole wedge simply charges forwards in an attempt to break through opposing ranks with sheer momentum, before the rest of the warriors widen the gap.

So there you go, don’t know how feasible all of this is, (the formations especially), but there you go – that’s a good Anglo-Saxon army list I reckon. The units are mostly accurate, and where they aren’t wholly accurate in terms of their equipment it’s been done to make them “feel” right – javelins for the Geoguth and not for the Duguth to make them a bit more offensive for instance. In reality most of these units could be equipped with javelins. I’m also busy thinking of some faction specific units. Speaking of which, here’s a quick list of Saxon factions:

Bernicians
Deirans
Angles
Saxons
Jutes
Gewissae (who will become the West Seaxe)

[Agraes]

Very good work ! I update the unit list.

But I think they would be only 2 or 3 germanic factions (plus franks and goths) : Angles, Saxons, Juts. There is a lot of differents tribes and kingdoms for each culture, and we got only 21 factions slots... for the moment I have put 19 factions, I don't know if we will keep the Goths in the south of the Loire. As far I know, Bernicians merge later, if possible at a certain date a strong army of Angles will attack Bryneich
Eventually (if possible), we will have others factions as emerging one, if it is allowed in modding.

Otherwise we can put (for example) Gewissae units for the Saxons.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Hi!
I found evidence that Arthur was no king, but a prominent warlord. Mainly from talesins(sp??) poems Here...

EDIT: I was thinking we could use my sig (the bit about arthur) as one of the quotes..its by an anonymous 14th century monk

[Agraes]

Well, by saying Arthur was a High-King or the Amherawddyr of the Britons (=Imperator), but this mean the general of all the clans, successor of the romans 'dux bellorum'=warlord, more than one of those local king. I have written an article on who might be Arthur, but it is in french, and my english isn't as good as I can translate it :

http://membres.lycos.fr/paladinceltique/Arthur.htm

Also, it seems that the Book of Taliesin wasn't the work of Taliesin himself : the manuscript is from the XIIth century, and the form of poetry remains from the VIIIth century.



For your sig, no matter Mine does too, and we have a lot of differents quotes we can use !

[Spongly]

So what's the start date for this mod, and does it cover all of Europe? I thought it would just be Britain and surrounding islands, which would allow you to do pretty much all of the important British kingdoms.

And yeah, Bernicia is officially founded in 547 by Ida, but his grandfather, Eossa, is mentioned in a number of Arthurian sources under the name Ossa the Knifeman or Osla Bigknife, and Vortigern is supposed to have settled Octha and his mercenary bands somewhere in the north, so it's reasonable to assume that the Angles had been there for some time.

[Agraes]

Start date : 480 AD

Game area will be something like this :


So Britain, Ireland, and a part of Gaul (including Brittany, very important !).

[Agraes]

I got my exams results and I pass in second year of medecine studies, so I will probably lead the project to the end

Don't forgot that we have to complete most part of historical research until this autumn

[Myrddraal]

Good on u Good to hear you'll be staying on the mod too.

[Ianofsmeg16]

great job! i knew the french must have been good at sumthing other than getting beaten by the british (joke lol)

[Agraes]

Some questions about the Picts.

- There is historical accurency that Picts were divided into 'Northern' and 'Southern', but Northern Picts seemed to have been a very poor nation without a great importance. Gameplay speaking, I don't think it is very interesting to keep 2 Picts factions, for that the Northern Picts will have poor territories and will be beaten by the Southern Picts quickly.
What do you think of that ?

- I am currently reading 'Pictish Warrior' from Osprey Books. Shall we put Pictish with tattoos, and nude warriors for them ? Not all Picts units naked but one or two.