Campaign map

[Rodion Romanovich]

@Zenit: ok

Longbows for the English would be good too, becouse they had the best one in the Medivieal Area ;-)

I dont have any experince of moding rome but i did a bit for Star fleet command 3 and older games like star wars rebellion.

If anyone know where i can get a free version of 3ds Max i can make the models or a semilar program would be nice too.

Is there a ingame limitation of the number of faction that a game can have?

Actually, there were no Englisc longbows. The English after this era gradually incorporated the Welsh longbowmen (also training saxons and normans after the welsh pattern) after the normans conquered the kingdom of Englisc. The Welsh faction (Gwynnedd) will have very good longbowmen in this mod, though.

A 30 days or so trial version of 3DS Max can probably be obtained from their own homepage.

Yes, there's a faction limit.

Actually we get many people wanting to help, so it's a lot of work doing just the recruiting. Therefore we'd like to see some samples of what you have done before you can be recruited as a part of the mod team (but everyone is welcome, and encouraged, to post comments and suggestions in these forums). If you need it there are always tutorials available somewhere in the modding section of the guild. But we'd like a sample before recruiting for skinning/modelling, and some experience and knowledge on the files is needed for the coding.

[Warbird]

Any consideration for ships sailing up rivers and estuaries? This was one of the key advantages of the Viking longboats. Will the campaign map be adjusted to allow for this feature?

Perhaps if the map is too large in size and it cannot comprehend the small details of rivers then possibly provincial campaigns in various areas such as England, Normandy, Eastern Europe, Byzantium, etc. could be considered.

My two cents.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Any consideration for ships sailing up rivers and estuaries? This was one of the key advantages of the Viking longboats. Will the campaign map be adjusted to allow for this feature?

Perhaps if the map is too large in size and it cannot comprehend the small details of rivers then possibly provincial campaigns in various areas such as England, Normandy, Eastern Europe, Byzantium, etc. could be considered.

Yes, we'll have it for most larger rivers such as the Seine, the Dniepr and probably some more. It'll not only make longships able to sail up the rivers, but also allow cities like Paris to have rich naval trade.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Yes, we'll have it for most larger rivers such as the Seine, the Dniepr and probably some more. It'll not only make longships able to sail up the rivers, but also allow cities like Paris to have rich naval trade.

Are you going to be doing this for London or whatever city you have thats near the thames?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Yes, most likely we will

[Csatadi]

I have a good map from 900. It shows well the natural vegetation and the names of the slav and finno-ugrian people.

Names are in hungarian but if you have an english list you can easily identify them. If you need help I will translate the names. I have this map also in my atlas. Sorry for the red lines.

[Nacheras]

If you make rivers sailing, then I remember you that Ixbila, at Al-Andalus, had an important river harbour (river Guadalquivir). In fact, the most important razzia of vikings at Al-Andalus arrived via Guadalquivir until Seville (Ixbila).
You can also make sailing the estuary of river Tajo.

[Riadach]

The Irish provinces should be;

Province - City
Muma/Mumainha (Munster) - Cashel (either this or Tuam should be the Irish starting position, though I suggest Cashel; Brian Boru was king of Munster)
Connaght (Connacht) - Tuam
Ulaid/Uladd (Ulster) - Ard Macha (Armagh) or Eahmain Macha (Navan)
Laigina/Laigin/Laighan (Leinster) - Faomhren/Ferns
Dubh Linn/Debh Linn - Dubh Linn (perhaps omit if in a bit of a province crunch; in all truth, Dublin wasn't that important until the Normans made it an administrative center; it more served as a 'back door' for Norse landings than actually provide an important role of its own)
Midhe/Mide (Meath) - Teamhaidh/Teamhair (Tara)

Few mispellings here
Mumha was nom. mumhan, gen and mumhain dat. Cashel is Caiseal in irish. Tuaim. Connacht was really a backwater till the 12th century though, i would recommend Midhe as the starting position after all it was they under maoilseachlainn who first established the high-kingship as fact and not poetic conseit.
Ulaidh or Uladh was a sub-province at this stage. it only occupied the counties of down and antrim since the Uí Néill invasions of the 5th century. But enjoyed virtually independent status.

The major power of the north was an tuaisceart which spans the same lands as old ulster, dominated political affairs there and usually the sub-provinces of ulaid and airghialla submitted to it, usually.

Laighin/Laighean(gen) Capital at this stage was dún ailinne(hill of allen) wasn't ferns (fearna) until the tenth century whaen diarmuid mac maoil na mbó (Diarmaid na ngall's great-grandfather) took the power.

Dubh Linn was of tremendous importance at this stage and a tasty prize for any king with the ability to take it.

Midhe- yes capital teamhair/temair but never heard of teamhaidh. Even in the 7th century Muirchiú in his life of st. Patrick describes it as Temoria in latin and that was one of the oldest irish writings.

[Riadach]

[QUOTE=Riadach]Laighin/Laighean(gen) Capital at this stage was dún ailinne(hill of allen) wasn't ferns (fearna) until the tenth century when diarmuid mac maoil na mbó (Diarmaid na ngall's great-grandfather) took the power.

sorry eleventh century

[kataphraktoi]

Hi, u guys need anyone for Byzantium?

I can provide concept drawings of Byzantine troops and also advice on province allocation.

For a sample of my work, go to the Ilsamiren Wars thread in the Forge, I have some digital photos of my work.

Kat.

Looks like its cooming on fine. A lot of mods around this period have flopped for lack of staf, but this looks promising. Im hoping to be a valuable contributor to this period if ur interested.

PM me.

[Rodion Romanovich]

We're currently cooperating with Byzantium Total war with exchange of units. We're supposed to recieve some of their byzantine units, and they recieve magyars and khazars in exchange. But they won't provide us with all the byzantine units, and we'll probably need slight reskinning of their units to make them have the same atmosphere and feel as the others, so we could still have good use for help with the byzzies if you can skin. Concept art for the units could also be useful. The units we won't recieve from BTW are those listed in our tech trees thread that aren't listed in the cooperation thread, which I for some reason can't find at the moment, so I can't make a list... As for provinces we're nearly ready with province planning in all places except Scandinavia at the moment.

[kataphraktoi]

Hmmm, just looking at ur tech tree for BYZANTIUM. Is it finalised or confirmed? Is there a chance of revising the tech tree so as to accurately train troops in a way that matched the Thematic and Tagmatic system?

For example:
IMPERIAL ARSENAL: A pre-requisite building that allows for the equipping of elite units like the Varangian and Klibanophori plus Tagmatic Kataphraktoi troops. In addition, it could also equip other foreign elite units that served in Byzantium like the Pharganoi and Manglavites.

THE SCHOOLS:
Another pre-requisite building required to train elite Tagmatic troops from the famous four schools - Excubitores, Scholae, Vigla, etc, etc.

MUSTER ROLL: ALl Thematic soldiers were registered landholders in the provinces capital, it could be a building that is required to train thematic soldiers. From there a BARRACK or CAVALRY STABLE could be built to train thematic cavalry and infantry troops.

just my two Bezants..

[Rodion Romanovich]

There is a chance, yes. But for the actual buildings we'll probably use our own system anyway. You could however be helpful by listing possible new units and state whether they're themata or tagmata, and list which units you think should be removed. But try to keep the number of units down if possible, and leave out those who didn't have a major importance in the period.

[.Seal]

Seems nice

[kataphraktoi]

From your brief on the mod (Introduction), it goes from 843 to 1099. This means it covers approximately two periods in Byzantine military developments. But I’ll simplify it without compromising accuracy and realism into a singular list. Advanced units take a while to train so there is no need to sharply list two different military unit lists due to the development that occur as Byzantium builds its structures on the tech tree.

Elite troops:
Tagmatic Cavalry Units:
The Tagmatic troops were centred in Constantinople (and later in the provinces). The Tagmata were the nucleus of the Byzantine army and its full time professional soldiers. The Tagmata had at its core, the four Tagmata schools which were essentially cavalry units with possible exception of the Numeri
Excubitores – Senior school of elite cavalry
Scholae – Another senior school of elite cavalry
Ikanatoi – Youngest tagmatic school of elite cavalry set up by Nikephoros I
Numeri/Arithmos/Vigla – Tagmata with duties that range in looking after the capital’s walls to guarding the Emperor at night when on campaign

Other Tagmatic Units:
Immortals - Earnt its name under the Golden Warrior - John Tzimiskes – as an elite cavalry unit personally trained and raised by the Emperor in the last quarter of the 10th century. Following the fashion of their sovereign, their appearance would be quite lavish. And yet, they could fight as any elite unit would.

Klibanophori – Though attributed to Nikephoros Phokas, there is reason to believe they appeared in the 930s under Gourgen Kourkuas (John Curcuas). The expense of such a unit meant that they were a Tagmatic unit raised and equipped by the government.

Thematic troops:
Thematic Kataphraktoi – First class Thematic cavalry were called Kataphraktoi in Byzantine sources. Thematic Kataphraktoi were derived from the province’s local wealthy magnate class (from which the Phokas, Sklerus and Kuorkuas were descended from) and also other wealthy thematic cavalrymen who served as officers and first-pick soldiers. IN addition, they served as the retainers of a Thematic Strategos.

Thematic cavalry – Not as well armoured as the Kataphraktoi but still well armoured enough to serve as heavy cavalry of another kind.

Theme Militia - generally the backbone of any Byzantine army. They are moderately equipped unarmoured infantrymen with the usual sword, spear and shield panoply with a leather or iron helmet with aventail if mail/clothe.

Skutatoi – well armoured pikemen who are the best heavy infantrymen from the Themes.

Menavlatoi – well armoured heavy infantry with heavy darts/javelins to hurl against heavy cavalry

Trapezitoi – light cavalry javelineers

Psiloi – light archers

Akritoi cavalry – hardy tough frontier cavalrymen who make excellent scouts and ambush units

Mercenaries:
Pechenegs
Magyars
Khazars
Alans
Varangian Rus – Unlike the Varangian Guards, the Varangian Rus were not a formalised tagmata, they served as seasonal mercenaries under agreement with the Kievan Rus who sent these elite warriors to Constantinople.
Pharganoi – The Pharganoi are from the Ferghana region in Central Asia sent as slaves or recruited to the capital. They serve as an elite bodyguard unit to the Emperor as cavalry archers.

Varangian Guard – The Varangian Rus were the forebears of the later Varangian Guard when they were formalized as a proper Tagmatic unit

Note: This is a list of military units so far. I will make a more detailed list later. WHen I mean detailed list, I don't mean more units, I mean a detailed description of equipment and appearance and hopefully concept drawings.

[Csatadi]

This is the current campaign map. Please send your comments.
I know the eastern part isnt perfect yet and there are some economical issue we must to solve.
Personally I think there are too much provinces. Whats your opinion?

[Greek_fire19]

I like it.

I personally don't think there's a problem with the provinces, really. It seems to have a similar sort of province density as mods like EB and they work fine for me.
The only issue with provinces for me is when they are 'clumped' as in RTR, in high-population areas, but that doesn't really seem to be a problem with this map.

EDIT: love the way Iceland's in. Any chance of Greenland? Maybe Even Vinland? Im assuming not, but an eric the red epic voyage as the Vikings would be fun.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Any chance of Greenland? Maybe Even Vinland? Im assuming not, but an eric the red epic voyage as the Vikings would be fun.

Nope, unfortunately not in, and it might also be impossible because it would increase amount of sea much. The RTW engine for some reason protests if sea percentage is too big...

[Herkus]

Well the area of Baltic lands seems pretty raped in your campaign map. So I found this map for 8th - 11th centuries.
Map is in Latvian language but I am sure you will understand the settlement names and tribe names.
[img=https://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4844/vikinglaiks9nt.jpg]

You can see major trading settlement names that time in Baltic. They are represented with black dot in the middle.
I will give some basic translation for some region names into English (though i don't know if you will stick with names in orginal languages in your mod)
Druza - Prussia
Jurpils - Curonia
Daugmale - Semigalia

I don't know which provinces you will include in mod, but your Baltic land area in campaign map doesn't make any sense to me.
If you have any questions about Baltics, just ask me.

[Herkus]

wierd that i cant edit my post, cuz that link doesn't work. Ok here is the new one.
[img=https://img105.imageshack.us/img105/4844/vikinglaiks9nt.th.jpg]

[Csatadi]

Yeah, thanks. Locals have always better maps.
We want to use native names as far as possible.
What would be the original of Prussia, Curonia, Semigalia?
I assume Prusi etc. are nation or tribe names.

[Herkus]

Yeah, thanks. Locals have always better maps.
We want to use native names as far as possible.
What would be the original of Prussia, Curonia, Semigalia?
I assume Prusi etc. are nation or tribe names.

At first say how many regions are you planning to include in Baltic land area. Then i will give you Regions of strongest tribes which would fit the best in that timeframe's map.

[Csatadi]

AOVAF planned provinces and settlements



Province - Settlement name

1 Aquitania - Augustoritum
2 Vasconia - Burdigala (Vascones)
3 Bertaèyn - Naoned (Bretons)
4 Neustria - Aureliani
5 Septimania - Narbona
6 Provincia - Massilia
7 Burgundia - Vesontio (Burgundians)
8 Francia - Lutetia
9 Flandria - Bryggia
10 Normandy - Rotomagus
11 Pagus Constantiensis - Baiocensis
12 Hispaniorum Marca - Barcino
13 Navarra - Pompaelo (Navarrese)
14 Castella - Burgorum
15 Legio - Ovietum
16 Gallecia - Campus Stellae
17 Tolosa - Tolosa
18 Batalyaws - Batalyaws
19 Tolahitolah - Tolahitolah
20 Sarakusta - Sarakusta
21 Balinsiyah - Balinsiyah
22 Mursiya - Mursiya
23 Gharnatah - Gharnatah
24 Qurtubah - Qurtubah
25 Ishbiliya - Ishbiliya
26 Novgorod - Novgorod (Vespes) must be some land for finno-ugrian tribes
27 Polotsk - Polotsk
28 Smolensk - Smolensk (Krivichs)
29 Kortdjak - Djir
30 Kiev - Kiev
31 Pereiaslav - Pereiaslav Khmelnytskyi
32 Mourom Ryazan - Ryazan (Mouroms)
33 Volhynia - Berestye (Dulebes)
34 Ruthenia Rubra - Halych
35 Livonia - Rafala (Livonians)
36 Thema Kalabrias – Messana
37 Lietuva - Daugmale (Lithuanians)
38 Prusa - Truso (Prussians)
39 Bomeranorum - Kołobrzeg (Pomeranians)
40 Beneventum - Beneventum
41 Chrobatia - Cracovia (White Croats ? Belochrobati ?)
42 Polania - Gniezno (Polans)
43 Frisia - Traiectum (Frisians)
44 Ripuaria - Aquisgranum
45 Mosella - Verodunum
46 Liguria - Genua
47 Tuscia - Pisa
48 Patrimonium Petrii - Roma (Romans)
49 Spoletum - Spoletum
50 Venetum - Venetia
51 Friulia - Aquileia
52 Hravatska - Zupanjac (Croats)
53 Travunja - Ragusa (Serbs)
54 Langobardia - Mediolanum (Lombards)
55 Alemannia - Constantia
56 Austrasia - Magantia
57 Saxonia - Brema (Saxons)
58 Transalbingia - Hamma Burg
59 Billung Marca - Lüneburg
60 Meissen – Albrechtsburg
61 Sicilia - Panormus
62 Bohemia - Praha
63 Bavaria - Salzburg
64 Morava - Morava (Moravians)
65 Silesia - Wratislavia (Slenzanies)
66 Carinthia - Meissen
67 Mide - An Dubh Linn
68 Taman - Tmutarakan
69 Levédia - Fekete Mogyeriek
70 Etelküzü - Fehér Mogyeriek
71 Pannonia - Blatnohrad (Karantanians)
72 Avar Plains - Avar Hring (Avars)
73 Laighin - Loch Garman
74 Transylvania - Belgrad
75 Raška – Beligrad
76 Ulaidh - Ard Mhacha
77 Thema Dyrrhákhion - Dyrrhákhion
78 Thema Strymonos - Nikópolis
79 Thema Peloponneson - Kόrinthos
80 Thema Helladikon Athênai
81 Dardania - Okhrida
82 Thema Makedonikon - Adrianoúpolis
83 Thema Thrakes - Kōnstantinoúpolis
84 Moisía – Nissa
85 Thema Longibardias - Barion
86 Thema Haemimont - Pliska
87 Dacia - Theodorapolis
88 Bosphorus - Karchaa (Crimean Goths)
89 Holsetaland - Haithabu
90 Snaeland - Reykjavik
91 Kernow - Isca Dumnoniorum (Should be Tintagel) (West Welsh ? Cornish ?)
92 West Seaxe - Winceastre
93 Eást-Seaxe - Lundenwic
94 Eást-Engle - Thetford (East Anglians)
95 Mierce - Snottingaham
96 Dyfed - Mynyw
97 Gwynedd - Deganwy (Should be Aberffraw)
98 Norþhymbre - Eoforwic
99 Srath Chluaidh - Dùn Breatainn
100 Lodainn - Dùn Èideann
101 Fortriu - Dùn Chailleann (Picts)
102 Dál Riata - Dunadd
103 Corsica - Bastia
104 Connachta - Tuaim
105 An Mhumhain - An Caisleán
106 Sardinia - Cagliari
107 Thema ta Klimata – Khersónēsos
108 Jutland (Iütland ?) - Viborg
109 Sjælland - Roskilde
110 Skåneland - Uppåkra
111 Thema Anatolikon - Ikónion
112 Svealand - Bierkø
113 Vestfold - Skiringssal
114 Agder - Flekkefjord
115 Rogaland - Stavanger
116 Hordaland - Bjorgvin
117 Sogn-More - Gulen
118 Trondheimen - Nidaros
119 Thema Armeniakon - Sinopē
120 Martyuba - Uchel
121 Mardan-Bellak - Bandja
122 Volga-Kama Bolğar - Bolğar (Volga-Bulgars)
123 Tamta - Ufa
124 Tubdjak - Kargaly
125 Chorasmia - Urgench (Khwalis)
126 Saksin - Atil
127 Saklan - Sarkel
128 Aran - Darband
129 Georgia - Tpili
130 Thema Khaldias - Trapesdoúnta
131 Thema Bukellarion - Herakleia
132 Thema Optimaton - Níkomedia
133 Thema Opsikion - Níkaia
134 Thema Kibyrraioton - Seleukeia
135 Thema Kappadokía - Aurea
136 Thema Koloneias - Sebasteia
137 Avasim - Halab
138 al-Jazira - Harran
139 Armenia - Ani
140 al-Mawsil - al-Mawsil
141 Azerbaijan - Tabriz
142 Djebel - Hagmatana
143 Djilan - Alamut
144 Khuzistan - Shushan
145 al-Iraqiyah - Baghdad
146 al-Bahrain - Hajar (Baharnah)
147 Arabia - al-Djawn
148 Ascham - Dimashq
149 Judea - al-Quds-as-Sarif
150 al-Hijāz - Tabuk
151 Mīsr - al-Iskandariyyah
152 Barka – Barka
153 Gotland - Paviken
154 Tarābulus - Tarābulus
155 Ifriqiyah al-Qayrawan (Aghlabids)
156 al-Maġrib al-Arabī - Fās (Idrisids)
157 Cyprus not a valid province yet
158 Crete not a valid province yet

May contain mistakes of course. Post your comments here.

Need research with the provinces (create a Map Resources thread if you have some info for us):
Province names
Settlement names
Rebels' name
Religion Percentage Christian-Muslim-Pagan
Resources
Starting Buildings
Special Buildings
Mercenaries available
Any important thing e.g. historical personages even if rebels, local units etc.

[Csatadi]

At first say how many regions are you planning to include in Baltic land area. Then i will give you Regions of strongest tribes which would fit the best in that timeframe's map.

Two provinces are planned 38 and 37.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Two provinces are planned 38 and 37.

I think we should have more provinces in the Baltic area, plus the current map was a conversion of another map which means I just filled in with the same color out to the coast without really bothering about making the province borders correct (because at the time the main concern was to get the map running). I think maybe 5 provinces would be good for covering Finland and the baltic area we haven't yet covered, not including Prussia, which I think is almost correctly placed at the moment. For these 5, Livonia, Revala and Lithuania seem necessary, but I don't know enough about the others. hink Suggestions from an expert would be good...

[Herkus]

Two provinces are planned 38 and 37.

OK i will give you the names in orginal languages for these regions
Prussia ->Prusa settlement (Truso)
Lithuania ->Lietuva settlement (Kernave) though the province drawing for Lithuanian is wrong in your map. It didnt expand so far in Russian land east, but rather it streched more to the south.

I would advice you to add one more province in Baltics ->
Curonia ->Kursa settlement (Jurpils)
Curonia covered all western part of modern Latvia and Lithuania. This was also the tribe which could be described as local Baltic vikings cuz they also used to raid neighbouring Baltic sea lands.

This map is for 12th century but can be also used for previous . The map's language is Lithuanian. In this map Curonia is showed in violet color in western part. In 11th century it had more lands to the south. If you add Curonia, than Lithuania should not have sea border and Curonia should border with Prussia. Though if you add Lithuania as large central Baltic land, then i guess you can make a sea border only in the south part of Riga's gulf.

[Csatadi]

Thanks. Edited. However my research showed Kernavė is first mentioned only in the 13th century so I choosed Daugmale from your map. I dont see the map from your latest post.
Borders will change later Im sure Legio will use your map to this process.
3rd province? Maybe. Depends on the size of Lietuva.

We would be happy about some details to the regions you know well.

[Germanicus91]

Map looks great :-) I think you should use period city and province names though, where possible. Winchester should be Winceastre. Eboracum (Roman name) should be Jorvik. Mercia would be Mierce or Myrce. East Anglia would be Eást-Engle, Essex would be Eást-Seaxe. Northhumbria would be Norþ-hymbre. I have books on English, Scandinavian, German and Dutch place names, so I can help with these.

[Csatadi]

Thanks Germanicus!
I will edit the names you sent and Im waiting for the more appropriate other ones.

[Germanicus91]

I'll look into the others, might take me a few days. Some care has to be taken with the English place-names, since with the Domesday Book in 1086 some may have a different spelling to how the Saxons or Norsemen spelt them. Whether you can make a script for that (or whether it is even worth it for 13 years I don't know). But for historical accuracy it is the correct thing to do. Cheers!