Byzantium Total War

[edyzmedieval]

Good idea....

When do you think you can deliver me this map?!

[CountMRVHS]

I would like to work on the factions, but I don't want to get too involved in it until the campaign map is done. The way I see it, getting a campaign map is the first big hurdle to get over before the "fun" work can begin.

For the next few days I'll be piecing together our Crusader map and sending the results to Fader so he can make it a workable map. It sounds like the map we are using will probably not have enough of what you want -- our Balkan area will be more simplified, I think, than you will want. However, when it gets done I'll get you a screenshot or something so you can decide for yourself.

I've thought about trying to learn how to make campaign maps myself, but it seems like the guide in the Alchemist Lab is incomplete. Does anyone know where there is some sort of tutorial for that? If I could make maps myself it would make things a lot easier; then we wouldn't need to go hunting for someone to do the work!

[Russ Mitchell]

All I need to do is find my copy of the main map, mark it up, scan it, and then email it to you (or upload directly, if this forum allows it). Potentially this evening.

[edyzmedieval]

Wow....Thanks Russ and Count for the help....

My e-mail adress is edyhiphop@yahoo.com......

[SicilianVespers]

The approach you are taking with mercenaries sounds excellent.

You should consider creating a "Feudal Estates" type building called "Pronoia Estates", or something to that effect, to create the Pronoiar units.

[edyzmedieval]

Sounds good.....

Editing the buildings to create new ones is one of the most important things..... Also, well have to make new Palaces as well for Constantinople... The Blacharnae, Phorphygenitus(sp?), Andronicus....

We'll have to take care of new units..... For the moment I thought of:

Skutatos - Byzantine Spearmen
Kilibanophoroi - The best cavalry, royals used them, heavily armored
Early Varangian Guard - To unlock them(it's easy)
Horsemen- Medium Cavalry( they had many of them, easy to modify)

We'll have to dig more.... Have to order some Osprey books... Excellent source of information.....

[Russ Mitchell]

The basic map is done: Edyz, check your email. Unfortunately, I don't know how to upload a file...

(this is a PAIN w/o the original map showing any of the relevant rivers... how can you represent the tactical nightmare of the Balkans w/o mountains and rivers? ARgghhhhhhhhh)

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the Map, Russ....

It's good as a starting point for the European part of Byzantium....

We have many provinces in sight, so this map is a good(very good, actually) addition, because it already has the provinces marked..... But we'll have to do some changes......

[Russ Mitchell]

Hey, it's your mod... I just thought I'd help out some.

[edyzmedieval]

Progress....

Just got the IrfanView and Ultimate Paint.... Very useful tools which I can do nothing without them....

The IrfanView is great.... I just viewed the MapTex TGA map... Without anything on it, it's awesome... I'm gonna use for my geography classes

With UltimatePaint, I just created 3 new units: Order Crossbowmen, Teutonic Crossbowmen and Templar Foot Knights as units for the Crusader States.....

[Eternal Champion]

Sounds like your on your way, keep us posted.

[NormanPain]

From what I have read most Skutatoi were actually pikemen, though some were not, is it possible that the mod could have both? Pikes seem to have been more prevalent in the earlier middle ages and spears during the later years. The pikemen should be armed with a oval shied and 13 ft pike while the spearmen with 7-9 foot spear with triangular shield. Strangely the Byzantines seemed to have gone opposite of the rest of europe, where many armies were realizing the usefullness of pikes the byzantines starting using spears and almost no armour, by 1453 their army was almost exclusively mercinaries and their own troops were no differently armed or dressed then the turks as can be seen in paintings, drawings and engravings...as well as coins.

Will Patzinaks(Pechenegs as they are sometimes known) be in the mod?

[Iustinus]

I don't know if anyone has seen it, but the small mod (I believe based on the XL mod) called the Millenium mod had an excellent Byzantine unit list.
You should check it out, although it didn't have many new weapon/shield/unit graphics it had all the names, reviewpanel pics and stuff.
Justin

[Iustinus]

As for the Crusader mod, I have a good Byzantine music pack that can go along with this.
I also have an idea for language (although that would be a little too far.....)
If anyone can speak Byzantine Greek, it would be great to use that for the Orthodox factions, as the Russian is kinda strange.....
For Catholic factions, I myself could record Lombard commands (which is a very medieval latin language- it sounds like a cross between Catalan, Provencal and Italian) unless someone has a better idea- since pagan factions use the language given to Catholic factions if there are more steppe groups then crusader factions we can put in a Turkish language instead.
Last of all, I think the Arabic is fine for Muslim factions, unless there are more Turkish factions then Arab.
Just an idea, I know it would be difficult to find people to do this but it would truly make this an amazing mod.
Justin

[edyzmedieval]

Of course, the Pechenegs will be included....(they were my ancestors )

Indeed, the Skutatos were the Byzantine Spearmen... We are going to add them, and unfortunately, the Byzantines didn't have any armoured spearmen....

I am going to post a cropped map of the area we are focusing on.... It's from Greece and Wallachia, Moldavia, Kiev, Crimeea, Khazar to Georgia to Egypt..... We are going to add more provinces.....

[NormanPain]

I believe Byzantine spearmen had armour as late as the 1300's but I may be mistaken, I am going to go read my sources again, maybe scan some images I have and post those too.

[Russ Mitchell]

I can do the same for Hungarian -- though the modern language is a little different than the older.

Iustinus, would love to talk languages (medieval and Turtle Island) with you if you can drop me an email.

[Iustinus]

Wow,
I don't think many people even notice that that's a native North American language! (outside of a few linguists, students and natives I know from some messageboards....)
That's really cool.
I'm going to get a microphone and record orders in Lombard sometime soon anyway, just to add to mods to sound more medieval and less like modern british pronounced latin. So, when it's finished I'll post it somewhere and if anybody wants them let me know.
Now more on the subject of this mod, I have an idea for creating castle walls/towers that dump either naphtha grenades or use boiling oil. Does anyone know if this is possible? (I think it is)
There are alot of accounts from this time period of fire raining down from walls during sieges, particularly in Byzantine territory....
Justin

[edyzmedieval]

I thought I'd post the progress of the mod....

Progress
----------

Historical info: about 30%
Campaign Map: 0%(lot of work on this)
Units: 0% ( I have made only the graphics to some units: Skutatos, Kilibanohporoi)
New factions: 0%
Testing: 0%

I'm waiting for my Osprey book to arrive so I can progress to the units part....

[NormanPain]

Which osprey books are you getting, I have the two on Byzantine armies if you need any information on units before they arrive.

[edyzmedieval]

I'm getting Byzantine Armies 1168-1461
I really need the info so I can start making the units, only Skutatos and Kilibanohporoi until now....

Hopefully tommorrow is gonna arrive....

Thanks for the help,BTW....

[NormanPain]

Not to be a pain or anything, but Skutatos is singular while Skutatoi is the Plural. Wierd I know, but its greek so...doesnt follow english rules

[edyzmedieval]

I know very well

We have to follow the Greek names, because it's all about Byzantium, and the Byzantines fully elenised(sp?!) in the 8th century.....

[King Henry V]

I have had a new idea for the mod.
As some of you know, in some mods there is the Homelands mode, where you can only recruit units in your starting provinces or Homelands. To add a more realistic twist to it, I thought about doing this in the mod. Most of you know that in the Byzantine Empire the theme system existed to recruit soldiers, and that the catastrophic consequence of thew Batle of Manzikert was the loss of large sections of theme land.´There fore the player will perhaps want to conquer the lost lands ASAP.

[Advo-san]

I know very well

We have to follow the Greek names, because it's all about Byzantium, and the Byzantines fully elenised(sp?!) in the 8th century.....

This might sound a bit non-relevant to the subject of this thread, but the ERE has been hellenized since its foundation by emperor constantine. Mostly because the eastern part of the Roman Empire has always been pretty much "greek", because of Alexander's and his Diadohoi work of hellenization of their domains.
In the ERE, most of the nobility were greek families and the largest of the Empire's national groups was also greeks.

@edyzmedieval:Why do you consider the 8th century as a landmark of the hellenization of the ERE?

P.S. Great work you are up to guyz, I wish I could help, though I don't have a clue bout moddin...

[edyzmedieval]

@edyzmedieval:Why do you consider the 8th century as a landmark of the hellenization of the ERE?

P.S. Great work you are up to guyz, I wish I could help, though I don't have a clue bout moddin...

Because, in the 8th century, latin was no longer used in the administration. Greek became the official language.

Thanks!

[Advo-san]

Because, in the 8th century, latin was no longer used in the administration. Greek became the official language.

Thanks!

This is exactly proof that the hellenization of the ERE occured even earlier.. Such a major change, like the language of the administration, couldn't have been decided overnight. And more, if my memory is not failing me, Iustinian legislation (Nouvellae-Neares) was written in both greek and roman. But I m not 100% about this.

PS: You may want to correct your title, shouldn't it say "Basileas"? Cause "basileos" in greek means "of the king" or "the king's".

When do you think the mod is going to come out? Anyway I could help? I mod not, but I could check a book or two for generals names, locations,battles, geography, anything you could use.

[Advo-san]

Or do yo umean Bazil, the name? In that case Basileos is just fine

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for your offer, Advo-San!!!!

We could use a detailed map of the Balkans, Asia Minor and Armenia(including Tripoli, Edessa, Georgia). As for history, I know very well. The Byzantines are my favourite and I know very very much about them. Also, if you could find info about Byzantine soldier types, it would be great!!!

P.S.: Take a look at my Fall of Constantinople story. You might like it.

[edyzmedieval]

Never new that...

I use Basileos because even in specialised books I have found this term. I have found also, Basileas, as a second term.