Research: what causes rebels to appear?

[econ21]

At the request of Morat, I am opening this thread to research into the causes of rebelliousness.

Among the factors I have heard mentioned are:
- town loyalty: on claim is that if loyalty is 100% or higher (and there is no unrest) there will be no rebels in the province
- unrest
- presence of the "fog of war": it is claimed that rebels spawn out of sight; having a wider field of vision (e.g. through watch towers) reduces the likelihood of rebels spawning.

Morat is also interested in what types of rebels are spawned.

[Mongoose]

Im my campaign with the SPQR mod, i noticed that having two forts in every province seemed to stop them completely.

In fact, it seemed to have more effect then having more units in the city...

In my experience, rebels appear randomly even if the city has a high happiness rating. The only thing that stops them is forts...

As for the type of units, simply look at descr_rebel_factions.txt.

rebel_type Brigantes //Britons
category peasant_revolt
chance 0
description Brigantes
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb chariot heavy slave
unit barbarian rebel general

rebel_type Trinovantes //Britons
category peasant_revolt
chance 0
description Trinovantes
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb chariot heavy slave
unit barbarian rebel general

rebel_type Suebi //Germans
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Suebi
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb fanatics slave
unit barb cavalry slave
unit barbarian rebel general

rebel_type Saxones //Germans
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Saxones
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb fanatics slave
unit barbarian rebel general

rebel_type Gepids //Germans
category peasant_revolt
chance 3
description Gepids
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb infantry slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb peasant slave
unit barb fanatics slave
unit barb cavalry slave
unit barbarian rebel general

Setting the units to 'barb peasant slave' will make them nothing but peasants.

[Simetrical]

I remember reading a dev statement that watchtowers didn't help against rebels, but forts did.

-Simetrical

[locked_thread]

1) Loyalty has no effect.
2) Fog of war has no effect.
3) Unrest appears to have no effect.
4) The "chance" parameter in descr_rebels.txt seems to have no effect.

Forts do seem to have an effect. But rebels still pop up even if you have 2 well-placed forts per province. I tried building a fort at every place I found rebels. Mostly they appeared on roads near borders. However, I saw repeated instances of rebels popping up in the narrow space between fort and city.

My current approach is to edit descr_rebels.txt to eliminate all rebel types other than peasants. With only peasants, they don't try to conquer my towns. This allows me to simply ignore rebels for the most part, though they still impose a massive trade hit. Also, peasant-only rebel stacks can be killed via auto-calc. Note that heirs of dead factions still appear in rebel stacks; this seems hardcoded in v1.2.

[Krauser]

Could difficulty have something to do with it too?

Playing on Very Hard/Very Hard they sprung up here and there but on Easy/Easy I only faced rebels a few times at the begginning. They still appeared around my borders but never inside.

Maybe it's just plain luck though.

[player1]

Could difficulty have something to do with it too?

Playing on Very Hard/Very Hard they sprung up here and there but on Easy/Easy I only faced rebels a few times at the begginning. They still appeared around my borders but never inside.

Campaing difficulty level DOES have effect on rebels.
It's even stated in readme.

[Carth]

Why are people trying to remove rebels? I always thought they were good practice, and they've never been a threat. I like to take the smallest army I can against them and see if I can win, and then your units get experience and your general gets command stars.

[locked_thread]

It's no big deal when you have 5 cities. But when you get around 40 cities you can spend nearly all your time fighting rebels. It's incredibly boring, and campaigns take forever to finish.

I normally play on Hard/Normal, but I'm currently playing on Normal/Normal. I'm still experiencing hordes of self regenerating rebel stacks.

Edit: And why fight rebels? They massively cut into your economy. In v1.2, they constantly move around, lay ambushes, and even lay seige to your towns. In one campaign I commited several stacks to actively hunt down rebels; yet I would frequently find one or even two(!) of my cities beseiged.

[Avicenna]

Why are people trying to remove rebels? I always thought they were good practice, and they've never been a threat. I like to take the smallest army I can against them and see if I can win, and then your units get experience and your general gets command stars.

getting more generals is probably the main benefit from rebels: nice easy heroic win without many losses, close to city to retrain.

[econ21]

1) Loyalty has no effect.
2) Fog of war has no effect.
3) Unrest appears to have no effect.
4) The "chance" parameter in descr_rebels.txt seems to have no effect.

Interesting, but it would be useful to indicate the source/status of these statements. They could be hearsay - like the hypotheses I started this thread with. They could be casual observation from gaming experience. They could be inside information from game designers, like what Simmetrical aluded to. Or they could be observation from tests based on modding the game. It's be useful to know what kind of statements you're making, as it affects how much weight readers will attach to them.

One casual observation from my current Rome RTR campaign is that I've had no rebellions from a long time in Italy, the long pacified homeland, whereas the odd one or two are popping up on the fringes of my lands. There's virtually no fog of war in RTR Italy and I suspect no unrest now, so I am a little sceptical of claims (2) and (3).

[player1]

Well my experience (but no real proof) says that provinces that have green loyalty AND zero unrest will gain no rebels.

For example in my last Julii campaing I don't remember having any rebels in my central italian provinces (which had green loyalty and no unrest).

[JOYA]

Im my campaign with the SPQR mod, i noticed that having two forts in every province seemed to stop them completely.

In fact, it seemed to have more effect then having more units in the city...

In my experience, rebels appear randomly even if the city has a high happiness rating. The only thing that stops them is forts...

As for the type of units, simply look at descr_rebel_factions.txt.



Setting the units to 'barb peasant slave' will make them nothing but peasants.

I'm going to try this aswell. But with the 'chance' lines wouldn't making the chance 0 increase the numbers seeing as the higher the number the less chance of rebels appearing? Or is that only the case in the descr_strat file?

[TheViking]

just found this thread. i dont cope to read thru all posts

i just wonder if the rebels standing on roads stops the trading for the city?

[econ21]

i just wonder if the rebels standing on roads stops the trading for the city?

I believe they do - it may be shown in the city details as a faded and/or flashing trade icon, I forget which.

[Severous]

Hi

We are going a little off topic.

But...

Rebels appeared in the Apollonia region. They did not stop land trade...but then there were no roads in the province at the time.

Macedonian army arched on Thermon. They stopped on the road between the city and the port. This stopped the sea trade Thermon had been engaged in.

Its a definate yes that rebels will stop trade if they are on the road. The animations moving along the road, that signify trade, will stop.

Same with pirates at sea?

Im still interested in the recent question. Will rebels attract more rebels.

[TheViking]

Im still interested in the recent question. Will rebels attract more rebels.

im almost sure its like that. if i leave rebels alone for to long there pop up lots of the rebel armies

[Diurpaneus]

I think rebel appearance has something to do with the years....like eveniments are....because several times rebels appeared on the same year....egg in Julii campaigns...rebels almost always appears in the Arimium provence ,after 4-5 turns