Historical Data for Bi??

[Crazed Rabbit]

I can assure you that EB is much funner to play than vanilla RTW.

This unit...*sighs*

Crazed Rabbit

[pezhetairoi]

That's it, I'm not buying BI. Oh gawd, priests are healers, they don't belong on the field except to cart sacred relics around for inspiration... wait that's an idea! Think of the Relic First Cohort, extra large in size, composed completely of templar priests, carrying a sacred relic that can be captured by the enemy?

But all the same, just because of that cheesy crucifix, which looks worse than any chessy cricifixes I have ever seen, I will not buy BI. Urgh....

[MAt]

OK.

There are numerous threads rubbishing this new Catholic priest as not just ahistorical but something that belongs in a fantasy rpg. Now I know that a lot of people are just joking, but there are some people who seem actually convinced straight away that this unit is absolutely categorically wrong.

What I'd genuinely be interested in is if anybody has any proof that this unit is a "fantasy unit".

I had always assumed the Catholic faith was the official faith of the Roman Empire east & west before 1053... or 1058... or whenever the Great Schism was. So the name 'Catholic Priest' is entirely fair enough right?

And why is it so unreasonable to suggest that chaplains may have been present on the battlefield behind the front line of a Roman army?

What would you say that any sort of unit like that should look like?

So please, all of you that are certain that CA are pulling units out of thin air, enlighten me. Seriously... Im not having a go or anything, Im just suprised that without any actual proof you can be so convinced that this unit is a total work of fiction... Im as aware as everyone else how other units in rtw have been represented but honestly dont see where the hostility is coming from with this one.

[King of Atlantis]

Sure catholic priest were at battles, but they never fought in them. There are a few times were a certain preist did fight, but would be in desperation. Preist should be represented as druids are in R:TR, alongside standard bearers, or not even there at all.

Can you imagine rome ever sendind a troop of priest to fight the Huns?

BTw, Welcome to the Org!

[MAt]

Sure catholic priest were at battles, but they never fought in them. There are a few times were a certain preist did fight, but would be in desperation. Preist should be represented as druids are in R:TR, alongside standard bearers, or not even there at all.

Can you imagine rome ever sendind a troop of priest to fight the Huns?

BTw, Welcome to the Org!

Hey thanks!

From what I read on the unit description thats exactly how theyre represented in the game... hence my confusion at the backlash...

[King of Atlantis]

The will be represented in the game as a unit of 60 men, just like druids i presume.

Were serious about historical accuracy at the org.

[King of Atlantis]

Dont worry, all we have to do is force EB to mod this campaign too

[edyzmedieval]

Check the posts in the Colloseum for other factions......

Stupid CA...Why won't they make at least one game Historically accurate?!

[The_Doctor]

Does it have a holy hand grenade?

[player1]

Really, on what do you guys think that AD&D clerics got modeled on?

On military priests.

[player1]

[sarcasm]
OMG!
It isn't realistic!

Allergic reaction starts to spread.
God help us!

AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Run for your lives!
[/sarcasm]

[Intrepid Sidekick]

The unit has a chanting moral effect and as such help to bolster defences...nothing more. They have the combat abilities of a peasant unit and there are only 12 of them rather than 60. Try building an army of these and you'll lose pretty fast.
It's one unit. Wait for the rest before you pass judgement.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Only 12 men in the unit.
And it's not anywhere near as tough as the Druids.
They are Priests. They help encourage the troops, no more.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

cough
Rome can be amazingly inaccurate
/cough

[Tamur]

Stupid CA...

I leave for six months and posters are still saying things like this... phenomenal. *beats head against wall*

Feel free to have opinions and express them, but try to be a little more specific. Labelling the entire company as lacking in intelligence is simply a good way to drive devs off the board. I'm very surprised to see they're still around at all.

[Duke John]

He only joined 2 months ago. It takes time to assimilate newcomers into the bOrg

[Asakura Lord]

Stupid CA...Why won't they make at least one game Historically accurate?!

Right, then they make it so accurate that it isn't any fun to play.
They can only do so much.

Like the Germanic or Gaul peoples took over Europe and wiped out the Romans like in my current campaign? No they didn't the Romans thrived and ruled Europe. That is Historically Accurate, sound like fun to you?

If the game was historically accurate it would be controlled and you only interject during certain points along the timeline.

[Horatius]

That's it, I'm not buying BI. Oh gawd, priests are healers, they don't belong on the field except to cart sacred relics around for inspiration... wait that's an idea! Think of the Relic First Cohort, extra large in size, composed completely of templar priests, carrying a sacred relic that can be captured by the enemy?

But all the same, just because of that cheesy crucifix, which looks worse than any chessy cricifixes I have ever seen, I will not buy BI. Urgh....

The Templars came into existence in the 12th century, sorry no Templar Priests.

However at this time Medicine was leaving the hands of private practice and surgeons and entering the hands of priests.

You forget that this is nearing the start of the dark ages, Roman Power is fading away at this time, and with it the field of medicine is starting to change hands from capable surgeons, and doctors of a variety of qualities back to the various priesthoods, partly because there are a lot less of them around.

[Horatius]

To make the game totally accurate is to make an unplayable game.

The history is very fascinating however, Sulla and Marius fighting over the rights of the people, Sullas brutallity in victory, Cato the Younger refusing to outlive the Republic, Brutus forced to kill a friend so close to him they were like father and son, the last stand of the betrayel to Cicero and the Republic by Octavian, Pompey the Great betrayed by a dynasty he had saved from destruction.

On the Catholic Priests you don't know what they do yet. It is accurate for them to come along to give special morale benefits, and the christian empire consistently had priests along with the army to do burial services for troops, baptisms for their children, explain to the troops how fighting to save Rome is pleasing to God and other non battle activities, so having them along (Probably just to sing prayers for the troops to increase their power and be really weak) is not innacurate.

[Zizka]

actually the priest at that time, as well as their followers were pretty aggressive. Many of the Bishops were hard military men and many had been warriors/soldiers at one time. The tradition of the priests aiding in combat continues through the early middle ages. The pope's legate in the first crudes crouched a lance as well or better than many of the knights.

This unit is very feasable and far from fantasy. Everyone decries the wardogs as well as being fantasy, they weren't wide spread but in the time period of BI the Saxon, Angles, Jutes, and Fanks on the continent used large mastifs to break up shield walls.

Armies about this time were starting to take on the look or the medieval armies, and looked more like a circus than an army. There were often more onlookers at battles than the actual combatants. Small bands of priests were present, often marching unarmed and carrying a cross at the front of armed units. CA may have gotten a few things wrong one a few units (the screaming women of the germans were strong light infantry, but the women of the barbarian tribes moved with their men and would have urged them on in battle.) so give them a break. Good grief. Hell if they were making it 'real' then you would have to outfit each army with cooks, whores, wagons, and various other camp followers.

[Mongoose]

What bothers me is that they have CLUBS....CLUBS for the love of God!



If they didn't have a club or some strange cross/wind i wouldn't really care....but as it is now, they look like a combat unit.


In other words, remove the club and i will be happy .

Also, why did i despise screeching women? Because the AI didn't just use them for the moral bonus, it charged them into my troops

PLEASE, make sure that the priests don't do this


Zizka

Do you have a source stating that in the games time period(The middle ages don't count), priest went to war and fought? thanks

[Mongoose]

The unit has a chanting moral effect and as such help to bolster defences...nothing more. They have the combat abilities of a peasant unit and there are only 12 of them rather than 60. Try building an army of these and you'll lose pretty fast.
It's one unit. Wait for the rest before you pass judgement.

Really?! that's great!

just remove the club and make sure that the AI doesn't use them as regular soldiers. thanks


Horatius

If you think Realism must hurt game play, then you have not see EB. Check it out under hosted mods.


What bugs me is that EB is going to have to do what they just did ALL OVER AGAIN because the units (Might be, i don't want to pass judgement too soon) are going to be as unrealistic and bland as vanilla RTW.



Also, if the game is going to be the same damn thing every time(Egypt and the romans in one final showdown ) It might as well be historical, right?

[SMZ]

The somewhat rabid response has stunned me somewhat... a number of posters in this thread seem somewhat unbalanced on the side of hasty judgements and baseless proclamations.

Having a priest along to reinforce the troops morale isn't a far-fetched idea. Even today when many people aren't even certain a higher power exists, the U.S. military still has chaplains. There have been spiritual leaders in virtually every war mankind has fought. The priest wielding a cudgel is a matter of taste. Many probably didn't carry any sort of weapon at all, relying instead on the protection of their attendents and faith. Some most likely did carry some sort of simple weaponry for basic defense... a simple club works as good as anything else...

[player1]

Well clubs are cheap.
Cheaper then daggers.

Why waste money on unit that isn't supposed to get in melee?

[Mongoose]

No, if they are NOT combat units they should not have weapons.

Unless you have a source stating that they did of course.

[Asakura Lord]

Maybe they have the clubs for self defense. It makes more sense to equip them with something instead of leaving them defenseless.

[Mongoose]

One again, if you have a source sating that they DID carry clubs, i would like to see it.

[SMZ]

mongoose - is it hard to believe that a man who knows he is going to be near a large number of other men intent on doing him harm might carry some kind of simple weapon for self defense?

[Mongoose]

Once again:

One again, if you have a source sating that they DID carry clubs, i would like to see it.

[SMZ]

I think the only "obvious" thing is that people love to complain.