Europa Barbarorum - The Unofficial Late Period Project

[paullus]

No, I'm perfectly happy to be contributing with it, that's why I'm trying to work out what's most accurate where. Right now I'm trying to figure out where I screwed up something recently, because its crashing now. I think I screwed up an x or y coordinate somewhere, but I haven't figured out where yet.

And I doubt Rome would have much sway over Sidon at this point, they were only given autonomy a few years earlier, by Kyzikenos, if I remember correctly. Anyhow, Roman control in the east was pretty slack until the Mithridatic wars, and as far as I know influence in Sidon only reached significant levels after the Romans started clearing pirates out of the med.

[VandalCarthage]

And I doubt Rome would have much sway over Sidon at this point, they were only given autonomy a few years earlier, by Kyzikenos, if I remember correctly.

Yes, as I said; which would hardly be prohibitive of anything, hehe

In any case, Sidon was integrated as a provincial Roman city when Pompey reorganized the defunct Seleucid Kingdom into the new Roman province of Syria. It did however become a Roman tributary much earlier, being granted a sort of 'colonial' status (though the name was changed sometime later). It's hardly amazing considering how much involvement the Romans had directly in the Eastern Mediterranean coast; checking up the on Seleucids, the Jews, the Ptolemies, etc.

[paullus]

tis true, if by checking up you mean, occasionally installing kings.

here's a question, how do you use the show_err function? I've got something wrong somewhere in the descr_strat, but I can't figure out what. I'm thinking I may have assigned a unit to a faction that is not included with that unit's entry in the exportdescr_unit. Could that be causing the problem?

EDIT: ok, i've got changes made to the Ptolemies and Seleukids, as far as province distribution, armies, and they may need a little more as far as buildings. that works fine. my problem is with rebel armies in the area. i'm trying to insert antiochos kyzikenos, a couple of judean generals, and rebels in pamphylia and sidon. now, to use their real names (eg, antiochos kyzikenos), where do i need to put those names in the "names" file? under their sub faction, under slaves, or both?

[Epistolary Richard]

Just a general note, as the Late Period Project is open development anyone is able to post specific edits to the many areas of the map that are incomplete. Obviously, they're not able to directly edit the files that can be downloaded - so problems with a copy downloaded can only be lain at my door.

here's a question, how do you use the show_err function? I've got something wrong somewhere in the descr_strat, but I can't figure out what. I'm thinking I may have assigned a unit to a faction that is not included with that unit's entry in the exportdescr_unit. Could that be causing the problem?

Yes, a wrongly assigned unit would most definitely cause a CTD. Be aware of the campaign_script.txt file - a unit can be created 'out of faction' there without breaking the game, though they may look a bit funny on the battlefield.

For how to use show_err check my sig.

How hard would it be to give Ptolemy IX a faction with KH as the template? Not artwork or anything, just basic stuff to get both Ptolemies in there. And wasn't Ptolemy IX only booted from Alexandria in fall of 107?

Errr... Ptolemy IX is the active Ptolemaioi faction. It's Ptolemy X that's going to be represented by rebels.

Been playing the alpha and I've had some problems with the Ptolemaioi they don't seem to like merging armies and it has also crashed when they battled a rebel army.

Is this pretty much what everyone is experiencing?

Can't say I have - I'll have to get back to you on that score.

[paullus]

Well, I got it working. It was the names. I hadn't put the names in the text/names file.

What I meant by ptolemy ix was this: it would clearly be optimal to have both ptolemy ix and ptolemy x represented with factions in game. Because ptolemy x controlled the majority of the traditionally Egyptian provinces, and ptolemy ix controlled provinces composed largely of Greeks and mercenary settlers, it might be a quick way to get both in the game to just treat ptolemy ix as the KH. I was just wondering how difficult it would be to turn the KH into the Lathyrosians or something.

Anyway, what you were saying about posting contributions, do you mean I should just post the text changes, rather than actual files?

EDIT: hmm, I actually had show_err working already, I just wasn't clear on what it did. I was hoping I could find a way to get at errors more than one at a time.

And a more specific question on units and factions. With rebel armies, does the "sub faction" matter as to what units can be put in? or since its overall slave, can any slave unit go in?

Anyway, I have garrison and field armies and family members working for Pamphylia, Phoenicia, Syria Koile, Hierosolyma, Galatia, and to a reasonable degree for Ptolemy IX and Antiochos Grypos

[VandalCarthage]

The reason Ptolemy IX is represented despite Ptolemy X controlling more territory (3 provinces vs. 4), is the actual hold each one represents. Ptolemy IX eventually settled into the Pharaodom later on anyway and was actually distinctly more powerful and influential than his ouster, and Ptolemy X's support outside Alexandreia was lukewarm.

As an aside, you can hardly say that Ptolemy IX ruled only mercenaries and Greek settlers. Kyrenaia was a several century old bastion of Greeks, and Kypros was mostly Pheonicians and older Greek families. In any case, as far as we know, he ruled as a Pharaoh - not a tyrant.

[paullus]

Ok, that's fine, I was just wondering. However, I did say "Greek and mercenary settlers" not the other way around. Good point on the Phoenicians on Kypros.

But my main question was this: how do you want the data changes? do you want them at all?

And as another question, do you think Ptolemaios should have a small force in Ioudaia, to represent the 6,000 he had sent to try to relieve Samaria?

And something cool: playing the descr_strat I've got right now, Ptolemaios put 2/3 of his troops in Kypros in his fleet, and sailed them down to take Alexandreia. Of course, that was easily done, since I haven't got troops in the Egyptian cities at the moment.

[Epistolary Richard]

Anyway, what you were saying about posting contributions, do you mean I should just post the text changes, rather than actual files?

As it happens, you're okay to post the files as I'm currently tied up on other projects. If there were more than one person working at once then one would have to post changes rather than complete files - as the files wouldn't reflect the other people's work.

EDIT: hmm, I actually had show_err working already, I just wasn't clear on what it did. I was hoping I could find a way to get at errors more than one at a time.

Alas not, it would be nice though

And a more specific question on units and factions. With rebel armies, does the "sub faction" matter as to what units can be put in? or since its overall slave, can any slave unit go in?

Not sure on this topic.

[paullus]

Not sure on this topic.

I'm getting some rather funky visuals with some rebel army units, they disappear if you aren't right up on them, and then when they do appear they look like vanilla units transmogrified with EB units, and a little bit of transformers...I noticed it with phalangitai pantodapoi and a general's cav unit. I thought they would work as rebel units, but maybe not. But shouldn't there be a rebel pantodapoi?

Anyway, I think my computer may have just hiccupped, all the other units have looked great. And I got ambushed by one of my pirate armies when I invaded Pamphylia...that was cool. But yeah, if I can make sure its working fine, I'll go ahead and post it.

[Stuie]

And a more specific question on units and factions. With rebel armies, does the "sub faction" matter as to what units can be put in? or since its overall slave, can any slave unit go in?

To my knowledge, any slave unit can go in any rebel army. As far as I can tell the only thing that has to match the sub faction is the leader name.

[Stuie]

I'm getting some rather funky visuals with some rebel army units, they disappear if you aren't right up on them, and then when they do appear they look like vanilla units transmogrified with EB units, and a little bit of transformers...

The first problem sounds like missing sprites, the second... not sure.

[Epistolary Richard]

The first problem sounds like missing sprites, the second... not sure.

The second sounds like there isn't a slave texture defined in descr_model_battle and its grabbing a different EB skin as default.

It sounds like the added diversity of rebels in this period will require a replacement dmb file - which means using the my_mod switch when compiling the next version.

[paullus]

The odd thing is this: the thorakitai showed up just fine, but pantodapoi phalangitai and the cav unit I was using did not. So I switched up the pantodapoi for taxeis phalangitai, and the cav unit for hippeis...perhaps that will fix it all up.

[Simmons]

The odd thing is this: the thorakitai showed up just fine, but pantodapoi phalangitai and the cav unit I was using did not. So I switched up the pantodapoi for taxeis phalangitai, and the cav unit for hippeis...perhaps that will fix it all up.

As Epistolary Richard was saying not all units have a texture defined for the rebel faction as can be seen here in EB's descr_model_battle.txt from the Data directory.

; Hellenistic infantry - Pantodapoi Phalangitai / Machimoi Phalangitai

type				hellenistic_infantry_pantodapoi_machimoiphalangitai
skeleton			fs_thp_f_spearman_p, fs_swordsman_barb									; combat spear
indiv_range			40
texture				carthage, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Pontic.tga
texture				romans_julii, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Seleucid.tga
texture				romans_brutii, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Bactria.tga
texture				numidia, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Bactria.tga
texture				thrace, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Bactria.tga
texture				macedon, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Bactria.tga
texture				parthia, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Bactria.tga
texture				merc, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Ptolemaic.tga
model_flexi			data/models_unit/ebunit_SPW_unit_greek_phalangitai_high.cas, 15
model_flexi			data/models_unit/ebunit_SPW_unit_greek_phalangitai_med.cas, 30
model_flexi			data/models_unit/ebunit_SPW_unit_greek_phalangitai_low.cas, 40
model_flexi			data/models_unit/ebunit_SPW_unit_greek_phalangitai_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite		numidia, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		romans_brutii, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		romans_julii, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		carthage, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		thrace, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		macedon, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		parthia, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_sprite		merc, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr
model_tri			400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

Something like this would have to be added

texture			slave, data/models_unit/textures/ebunit_SPW_greek_phalangitai_Bactria.tga

Along with an appropriate sprite.

model_sprite		slave, 60.0, data/sprites/seleucid_greek_pike_phalanx_sprite.spr

Update:
I made the changes and here is the end result a battle just outside Damaskos


What where the other units you where having trouble with Paullus?

[Epistolary Richard]

paullus, don't know if you're already doing this, but if you're not here's a tip. When modding any file outside of the campaign file, I've been marking any changes with ;EBULP in the line above and below. It means when it comes to convert it to the next version of EB (as I had to do to 0.74) it's a lot easier to find the changes that need to be repeated. (Files in the campaign folder, though, like descr_strat, tend to be so heavily modified that _everything_ is pretty much changed, so there's no point in marking them).

[paullus]

Yeah, I think so. At least with names.txt. There may have been insertions in the other text/names file that I didn't put "; EBULP" on. I'll go back and insert those.

Decimvs, that's great! There are actually quite a few that would need to be changed, to properly represent the Ptolemaic and Seleukid rebel factions: thorakitai, successor generals cav, most of the "numidia"-specific units unfortunately. But I think that would cover it pretty well, at least in the eastern med.

And another update...I put a rebel army in Alexandreia, ran it again, and it took a few extra years, but by 103 the Ptolemies had invaded from Kypros with a full stack. I just think that's cool.

[VandalCarthage]

EDIT: ok, i've got changes made to the Ptolemies and Seleukids, as far as province distribution, armies, and they may need a little more as far as buildings. that works fine. my problem is with rebel armies in the area. i'm trying to insert antiochos kyzikenos, a couple of judean generals, and rebels in pamphylia and sidon.

What province distribution changes have you made?

And what's up with Galatia?

[paullus]

Seleukid: Kilikia and Syria
Ptolemies: Kypros, Kyrenaika, and the coastal province E of Kyrene

As for Galatia, I just put a few more troops in there. I was thinking of changing the gen's name, but I wasn't sure if that name was based on an actual figure. I know of a few from the time period, but not of a Caratawc (I think that's it). At some point I wanted to do a little more with Bithynia, and distribute some merc troops and local troops in Pergamon, since those were the garrisons at the start of the Mithridatic War.

And VC, any thoughts on whether the Ptolemies should start with a small (~6 units?) army in Ioudaia? At some point in or near 107 the force is there, but I'm not sure if its there at the start point.

[VandalCarthage]

Nah, the 6,000 Cypriots shouldn't be around at this point. Once we have some Cypriot units skinned for EB, Salamis should just have a big ol' Cypriot + Pezhetairoi garisson, Kyrene with Pezhetairoi, and Paratonion with some Klerouchial units.

Right now, the Ptolemaioi are probably as good as they can be, but the only concern I have is whether or not to include Ptolemy IX's direct deputy on the island in his family tree, who apparently was very loyal to him, and thoroughly rewarded on a couple of occassions. Though it's not necessarilly pertinant, he was granted an office normally reserved for royal family members. What would you think of including him Paullus? Rich?

Sorry about the earlier question though Paullus, your post just confused me - it seemed like you said you were changing the original distributions, which those are, so far as I know

[paullus]

Those weren't the distributions in the alpha, though I'd seem 'em that way in some older posts, so yeah, I just put them back.

I kinda think adding a general for the Ptolemaioi would be a good idea. With 3 provinces, you might get an adoption proposal anyway. Do you know the name of the governor of Kyrene? I'd thought about proposing making Antiochos' military number 2 and chief advisor, Herakleon, an adoptee, but he's got all those kids coming of age within a couple of years, so there's no need.

EDIT: though now I think of it, the governor would be named as heir, wouldn't he? and the AI wouldn't think to change the heir over to the son would it? if not, that would destroy the lineage, and that would be, well, sad.

[Epistolary Richard]

Include him, I say The more detail the better. As for the heir concerns - well, we place the player in the position of the faction leader, it's his choice whether to stick to his own lineage or groom his favourite general to take over the position.

[paullus]

I'll be really busy the next few days. I've zipped the files, can you recommend somewhere to host them? I haven't gotten to update the unit file, so that's not included...for now I just changed the soldiers to taxeis phalangitai to get around the slave faction limitations.

[Epistolary Richard]

If they're less than 2meg then host them at the Org:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=37799

Otherwise, drop me a PM and I'll send you my email address.

[paullus]

Its in the RTW uploads section here at the org. This *might* be the link to it.

http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Rt...ULP4.30.06.zip

ok it is.

[Epistolary Richard]

Cool, cheers paullus, added to the first post. Could you give a brief outline of what areas you adjusted, was it just Seleukids & Ptolemaioi? - just so others don't go back and change them again?

[paullus]

Changes:
Seleukids
Ptolemies (may add new general and new units with next build)
Rebels: Sidon, Iudaia, Pamphylia, Galatia, Bithynia


Now I'm trying to figure out what should go in the regions south and east of Iudaia, and working on putting in Ptolemy X and some of his generals. And I changed the Galatian general to Sinorix, and put a field army in under Deiotaros.

I have a question about what you're thinking for the Romans. If you want to keep just the two family members and leave the rest for adoption, should I just try to get proper names for garrison commanders, in the hopes of getting some good adoption/man of the hour options?

[cunctator]

Have you ever thought about turning this into a BI mod? After EB 0.8 is released it should be no problem. The teutones and cimbrii could be represented as invading horde, the mod could have roman civil wars, use the freed unit space without all the early units, etc etc.

[Epistolary Richard]

Well, maybe. But the priority at the moment is to get a fully working version for the current version of EB. If EB moves to BI then so will the ULP.

[Masy]

Long time no chat on this thread, so hows the mod coming along? Any signs of a beta yet?

[Simmons]

Long time no chat on this thread, so hows the mod coming along? Any signs of a beta yet?

Its likely things will pick up again once the new EB patch is out.