Interactive History IV: Manstein's Woes

[Kraxis]

This is the fourth, and possibly the most ambitious of my Interactive Histories. Because of the wealth of information we have, yet not always easily accessable it might contain several odd cases of divisions and commanders. Also certain people might not behave as they did, but I will try my best. And last, the initial scene is being played out as a hypothetical case, not a historical case.
In essence, this installment is more of a game and much less of a true "What if" than the others given the complexity of the situation.

Having followed Vykka's very good, and easy to follow Alternate History I have opted to change the rules a little. I had actually wanted to do that for a long time but I didn't know what to do. Now I do.
From now on it will be played out like Vykka's thread. First three with a tiebreaker in the first. This should correct the overhasty decisions a bit as now it isn't paramount to be first.

We start out as von Manstein at the end of his counteroffensive in 1943.

Chapter 1: The Decision
22 March 1943
Sitting in the plane towards Rastenburg you can't help but feel that you should leave the front just yet. The fighting hasn't eased up, nor has the advance stopped, your men needs you. Yet you know that within a few days the mud will finally bring a complete halt to your counteroffensive... What a splendid performance. You smile at your achievements, and this time because Hitler let you have total freedom to sucker in the Russians. Yes, it is certainly something to smile about. But you still think what would happen if the rain suddenly stopped and you were all the way back in Rastenburg, well then Hoth would show his initiative again. You put the thoughts away and begin to think of the discussion ahead.

For hours you sit and deliberate the next course of action, but there is little choice really. Two options are clear for you, you opt to call them the 'Forehand Stroke' and 'Backhand Stroke'. The 'Forehand Stroke', the less attractive in your mind, involves an attack on the base of the Kursk salient, jutting into your front. The 'Backhand Stroke' on the other hand is a deliberate version of the counteroffensive now winding down, one that very much is in your favour, but obviously will be hard to convince Hitler of.

You finally enter the waitingroom in the Wolf's Lair. It seems that Hitler is holding court today. Matters of importance is obviously stuffed into a sinlge great day for the Führer. Typical of him.
Anyway, you look around the room and notice Sper sitting with his small crowd of technicians and experts at a table, clearly confident and cooly intelligent he is a most effective 'Führer Persuader' as he is being dubbed. Further in the room you notice your old comrade and opponent, Heinz Guderian. Recently given the position of General-Inspector of Armoured Troops he is now in a postion of power, one effectively at the hight of OKW and OKH.
Sitting alone at small table with some cookies you see General der Infanterie Kurt Zeitzler, the Chief of Staff to Hitler. Also known as General Fireball for his vicious temper, something that meant he was anything but timid in front of Hitler.
The last personr of interest you see is Field Marshall Keitel Chief of OKW, whatever his position you are certain that this man is close to Hitler, so close that you wonder what he is doing out here, and talking with him is Colonel-General Jodl, Chief of Staff OKW. Those two are an interestingly close pair when it comes to Hitler.

As Hitler is occupied for the moment you all have to wait and you have some more time to think up what to say and do. Quickly you realize that having an allied with you when you are to persuade Hitler would be perfect. Assaulting Hitler from two sides often had the effect of Hitler becoming disorientated and backing down, while he was most resilient to individuals. But who should you choose to persuade? And further, you haven't made up your mind about which 'Stroke' to present to Hitler. What to do?

A1: Persuade Speer. You know him, and you like him, not as a friend but as a professional. He is intelligent and on a very good footing with Hitler. Often his very presence calms the Führer. His position as Minister of Armaments is very strong. Hitler likes statistics and Speer can present them in ample amounts, you could gain a lot of advantage from that. Too bad that the man is not of the military and has little knowledge of battles, but perhaps that is a strength as Hitler has lost a lot of trust in the generals.

A2: Persuade Guderian. His new position brings him much closer to Hitler than you, he only has to report to him. He is a sort of wildcard at the Wolf's Lair now, as he will often bring the whole place into a flying battle of words. His tactical and strategic insight would be helpful, but he is not your most staunch supporter and you have several times clashed previously, in fact you sighed with relief when he was removed from his position in 41.

A3: Persuade Zeitzler. Now here we have a kindred spirit. He will, like you, talk back to the Führer if he feels like it. He has an aggressive spirit on the field so he will most certainly be in favour of your 'Forehand Stroke'. Sadly the man has a tendency to lose himself if he is met with opposition and he laso tent to push people towards a much more staunch view of their own. Expect trench warfare in the conferenceroom with Zeitzler.

A4: Persuade Keitel and Jodl. They are intimates of Hitler, they meet with him daily and both are of the Prussian tradition. So they have managed to get clear of Hitler's opposition to that cliche. The fact that there are two of might strengthen your position much more, but you also dislike both for their lack of spine in front of Hitler. Further, both are attached to OKW the staff resposible for everything but the East Front, Hitler might jump at it if he dislikes it.

B1: Try to use the 'Forehand Stroke' as your operational agenda. By choosing it you will try to force Hitler to grant you a few weeks of rest, replacements and reinforcements, especially in tanks. Then attack somewhere in early April, at the latest in late April. True the ground will be boggy but the Russians will be equally hampered and they will be weakened from the counteroffensive.

B2: Go with the 'Backhand Stroke', where you will leave a section of the front weak for the Russians to attack. It allows you to use the entire rasputitsa as a buildup and should end up with an easy maneuvered battle, the strength of the German army. The large salient in the south, created by Army Group South is very tempting.

Take into account that all four 'allies' might have a preference to operational behaviour, so think it over.

[AggonyDuck]

I'd go for A1 and B2. Just seem like the most reasonable choices to me.
Speer seems to be the one who is the most trustworthy and the 'backhand stroke' seems to be the better of the two IMO.

[dgfred]

Sure did hate the whole idea of the 'forehand' plan , so I guess I

go with the 'backhand' with Speer and Zeitzler . No way would I go with

Jodl & Keitel- they would just turn to the side Hitler had a preference for.

[Kraxis]

I kind of forgot to mention this in the first part. Hitler has last word on the operational business. Some time soon we determine how we will persuade Hitler.

So if you want you can change your votes.

[MoROmeTe]

I say A2 and B2... Guderian is the best of the mentioned General's and most likely to persuade Hitler. And the second plan has its chances...

[discovery1]

Hmmm, I don't know.While Guadarian has the experience to back it, I'm not sure that Hitler would be too keen to listen to him. Guadarian I don't think was on very good terms with Hitler.

I would go Speer also. Competent, trustworthy(at least in Adolf's eyes I think) and he doesn't know much of war so he will be easily persuaded either way.

Needless to say, backhand blow is the way to go(I think.....)

[Kagemusha]

I would say A4 and B2.While Keitel and Jodl are spineless they are still ambitious.They know you and if you can sell the plan to them, they can convince Hitler that its good.While they will take all the credit you can make it work.

[Kraxis]

The Recruit
As you look around the room you begin to evaluate the candidates. At once you dismiss 'Lakeitel' and Jodl, they would end up stabbing you in the back as soon as you went before Hitler. You can't forget Hitler's comment that Keitel is as loyal "as a dog". No the 'Strutting Fool' and the 'Blustering Moron' should not go with you.
You frown at Zeitzler. A hugely competent staff soldier, but not much of an operational commander. And his often brash and aggressive ways would end up antagonizing Hitler, despite his respect for the general. That belief alone has to reeling from him.
Guderian... Ahhhh.... Good old Schneller Heinz. You are certain that he would love your Backhand Stroke, and his position would make it happen. But you realize that he would have to work with Kluge to an important degree, and they absolutely hate each other. Kluge has several times mentioned duelling, he has even asked you to be his second. Not a chance there. Besides you and Heinz are not even on friendly terms, he has often critized you and given few positive comments. You know that he admires you, and you him, but this is personal. You don't want him that close, it would be far too uncomfortable. And it has been said: "Too many cooks spoils the food." Very suitable here.
Finally you reach Speer. His non-military position has great appeal to you. This way you can bombard Hitler from not only two individuals, but from two very seperate branches of society and command. You are on the other hand not so sure about his position towards you pet operation, but if he is opposed to it you can likely convince him easily. His knowledge of military matters is simply too little for him to understand what you are talking about. Ignorance makes a great ally.

You walk over to the table. Speer looks up at you, his eyes warm and friendly, then stands up and shakes your hand. "Field Marshall, it is so nice to see you. I can't believe what you have done on the Eastern Front. The numbers are simply astounding, so many tanks, so many guns, captured and destroyed. I have estimated several months worth of effort from the Soviet Union."
"Thank you Minister Speer. It is not over yet, however it is winding down as we speak. But I'm not here for trivialities or smalltalk, we need to talk seriously now."
Speer ushers away his experts and numbercrunchers and beckons for you to sit at the table. "Speak up... I fear I can't help you much in military matters, but for some reason I believe that is what you wanted to speak with me about."
You chuckle lightly. "Indeed it is. We need to deliver a serious blow to the Red Army. This years there is no room for strategic maneuvers, we should forget Moscow and the Caucasus for the time being and concentrate on removing the best the Red Army has to offer."
"Agreed, but I fail to see how. I mean, I know there is large bulge in our line around Kursk."
"Well, the bulge is tempting and since even you, no offence, know it is a good target we can be sure everybody does. We should ignore it for now, weaken our lines and appear exhausted from the counteroffensive."
"But that would just invite the Russians to attack with their strongest..." Speer then lights up in smile. "You sneaky bastard. You want to draw in the Red Army in a massive version of your counteroffensive!"
You smile and shrug your shoulders.
"I cannot but stay positive towards it. We might get a lot of important metals from the occupied territories, but if we were to detroy yet another, and much larger echelon of Soviet armour and equipment, we would have a free hand for the rest of the year. Also we could strengthen our position free of commitment, and my men could finally iron out the problems with the new Panther tank." Speer mumbles a short curse under his breath against the Panther.
"I was hoping you would agree it is a good chance, and now it is my hope that I could bring you with me when I'm to discuss this with the Führer. Your scematics, tables and general good position with him would go a long towards convincing him."
"Fine... But how. We have to have a strategy, or else Hitler will just duck evade, and talk about other matters. We can't let that happen."

So, you have recruited Speer with great success, but now the two of you have to find a strategy to overpower Hitler's legend ability to dodge othe people's opinion.

1: Lay out the plan before Hitler, and stand on the right to finish it (you know Hitler will try to interfere). Then have Speer use his influence and his persuasive talk to batter at Hitler with the strategic and statistical advantages. Then when Hitler grows irritated you step in and assumes the attack with the proof of your recent campaign as well as the moraleboost such a complicated strategy would grant the troops. A straightforward tactic that gives you good flexibility.

2: Let Speer soften Hitler up with a wish for a bluntening of the Russian armour. Then present the plan as a solution to that problem while Speer cheerfully agrees with it. Effectively the two of you leaving out Hitler of the talk. Thus undermining his own opinion. A tactic worthy of an intelligence agent.

3: Rush in and in a bouyant mood present a cheap and effective way to contain the Russians while leading up to a more general offensive later on. When Hitler begins to complain Speer will soak up his attacks with his statistical evidence and his own complaints of an active battle, particularly noting the problems of the Panther. Meanwhile you use logical arguments to force Hitler to conceede points until he finds himself in a position where he can see the greatness of the plan. A psychological persuation.

4: Remain silent while Hitler either waits or talks with Speer. Then present your plan when he calls for your reason to be here. Flow with Hitler's attacks on it, make small concessions and in general appease him enough for him to finally agree with the plan. Have Speer support you now and then to make certain that Hitler does not push his demands too far, and in the end out loud say that it is a great plan in terms of production and strategic demands. You dance like butterfly and sting like a bee.

[MoROmeTe]

For me 1 seems appropiate...

[discovery1]

The toughest part of the battle by far.

Not 4, too much will be given up I can see it now.

Nor 3, isn't Hitler starting to lose it?

2, I don't know. It seems odd that Speer should want to blunt the Russian armored forces or , but maybe it's just me.

I guess one....

[dgfred]

I believe #3 might work. Maybe Hitler wouldn't completely loose it on
Speer and you could still judge the situation somewhat, adding your
strong points if able.

[Geoffrey S]

2 sounds good. 4 would force too many concessions, 3 logical reasoning wouldn't really work on Hitler now, and 1 risks antagonizing Hitler.

[SwordsMaster]

2. If you dont ask him, how can he disagree?

[Kagemusha]

Number two.

[Kraxis]

It seems there is a majority for #3, but the rules are the first three, and they have spoken, it is #1 again.

Battle before Battle
In the few minutes you have you manage to lay out the plan for Speer, and he agrees with you. When you are finished he comments that this is certainly not his style, but then again he is not used to fight with Hitler like you are. He does like though, that he can be a knowing friend for Hitler and that he doesn't have to talk strategy in military terms. Almost before he finishes his comments you are called in, and you make a little sigh of relief that you didn't opt to use a more complicated strategy.

As the two of you enter (Speer was forced to leave his personel behind as this is your audience) you see Dr. Morell scuttle across the room to a chair in a dark corner. Hitler is sitting in a padded chair at his small conversationtable, his eyes a bit dull. Due to your forceful and strong stride you cover Speer's more casual behavior and Hitler only notices him when you move towards the table, at this he jumps up with a unheard of (to you) big smile and exclaims: "Heil Speer." Speer returns both the smile and the greeting. You smack your heels together with a loud clack, the type which brings such delight to Hitler, then you nod towards him exclaiming: "Mein Führer." Finally it seems as if Hitler notices that it is you who has entered and not just some adjudant.
"Ahh, my dear von Manstein." At once he gets on with one of his interrogations. "How goes the battle? I keep hearing that we retake land every day. Do you expect a drive on Moscow?"
At the short pause you jump in.
"I'm sorry, but that is not possible now. We have used a lot of strength in this counterattack, and at the moment it is winding down due to exhaustion and the dreadful rains. I expect at least two weeks of silence."
Hitler is not impressed. "Rain, mud, snow, frost... You all complain of this, yet I managed to go through it all in the Great War. I ran through the kneedeep mud of the trenches every day. It was no hinderance to me. Yes it was certainly not pleasant, but I was a soldier, so are you."
You know that the truth is far more complicated than what Hitler will admit to, so you do not try to reason with him about it.
"However, the fact is that our armies are struck, and rather than sit around an complain that is it stuck we should use that lull to our advantage."
"Yes... yes... That is of course right."
"I have a plan for a major battle with the Russians here, one that in fact demands this lull. But I will have to demand that you listen to it in full."
Hitler is taken aback by this demand, but he quickly relaxes into the dull look again. "Sure... Just carry on."
"My plan is to recreate the conteroffensive but on a major scale." Already Hitler is discomforted, but you carry on. "The entire position of Army Group South is a salient of sorts, especially with the Soviet salient at Kursk. And as you know about 40% of their armour and about 50% of their motorized forces are concentrated there. It is a perfect position for a drive to the south along the lines of the recent attack, but this time on a far larger scale and far deeper into our rear."
Hitler shifts his seat, he is obviously very agitated already.
"Let's use this to our advantage. I propose that we leave the shoulder of the salient weak. The joint between 4th Panzer Army and 2nd Army is a perfect place for this. And if we can manage to present 4th as weak after the counteroffensive a major attack will be likely. Behind 2nd Army we will have Army Detachment Kempf, removed from the front because of 'refit', which isn't that far from the truth. We can attempt to appear to halt them by all means by throwing the Romanians and Hungarians in their way, they should soon buckle. And when the Soveit advance has reached across the Dnieper we cut their lines. Without fuel and ammunitions they will be forced to abandon their tanks and other vehicles, a rather nice loot. Meanwhil we will take around 300,000 prisoners of their best troops."

As soon as you are finished Hitler shake his head and gives a rumbling, until he finally speaks. "NO NO NO!!! Not a single meter of land! We will fight them where we stand! Have you got any idea of the strategic resources I have to manage?"
At this point Speer comes to your aid. "But Mein Führer, it will be a country for the most part already ravaged by the recent battles. There will be little lost. We have most of our resources far behind our lines."
Hitler is thrown off by this argument, clearly baffled he resumes his attack. "How do you know the Russians will attack there? And not against Leningrad for instance?"
"I can't..."
"Exactly!!!"
"But I can tell you this much. There is little to be gained from a major offensive in the north, the terrain is not good for mobile warfare and we would ample time to send reinforcements, if they did attack. Especially with Kempf at the rear, almost sitting on a major railway to the north. The north is safe."
"That is not a certain fact! And the Russians have more than enough tanks that can go through bad terrain rapidly."
Speer tries to help out once again. "But our own Panthers are on the way, and the Tiger is being built in ever higher numbers now. Both can go across terrain our earlier tanks couldn't. There is much that speaks for this. I have estimated that if the Russians uses a couple of weeks to reform their forces and strengthen the spearheads..." You quickly add "Three weeks sounds likely." "They will use what amounts to half a year worth of production of tanks and guns. While this in itself is not crippling they can't reform the remaining weakened troops in time."
You take over as Speer is moving into military matters where he is out of his league. "That's true. If they use all their production for the winter plus all their had in the salient then the loss of that will be serious. We must assume the troops that remain in the salient are those weakened in the counteroffensive. They will be low on everything as priority went to the attacking forces."
Hitler is bloodred in the face, but when he looks at the sincere face of Speer he gives out a loud sigh and slumps into his chair. "Your arguments are valid... And I would love to do it, it is safe. But I can't. Can you imagine how the Italians and not the least the Romanians and Hungarians would react to a major Soviet offensive pointed right their way? I doubt even your impressive skills could reverse that. I tell you it simply won't happen..."
You realize that the battle is lost, Hitler is set in stone about a reactive summercampaign. When he conceeds the logic he is often very sincere. Now it is time for you to give a sigh. But at least you haven't soured Hitler, and he is still open for your words.

"In that case... I have another plan..." You present your 'Forehand Stroke' which Hitler is very positive towards. In the end you stress speed, because unlike the first option this is an operation of the direst speed given the fast rate of recuperation of the Russian forces. Hitler agrees to do it fast. Then he begins to talk with Speer about the Panthers he mentioned earlier. Now you realize how dangerous that could become to your timetable. They talk about the current lack of reliability in the Panthers, and you know the time for another verbal battle has come, and this time you fear you might not get the support of Speer. You have to be careful not to get outnumbered.

1: Agree that the Panther is important, but that the lack of reliability might be serious. Try to get Hitler to exchange the tanks of the less important areas to Panthers while you get the older reliable tanks for your attack.

2: Argue totally against the inclusion of Panthers. They are too unreliable, far too long in production and untested in battle. They are dangerous to such an important operation.

3: Accept that they have to be used, but steer Hitler towards sending them to the front right away, not hoarding them, so that they can get their systems worked out and be tested in battle prior to the big fight.

[discovery1]

Damn. That's terrible.....

Hmmm, I guess three. Hitler was a huge fan of the Panther, so I guess nothing will disswade him from using them. Just get them out NOW, since they weren't to great in reality and if there are only a few they ca't impact the outcome of the battle can they.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

2 won't work, and Hitler will resent the suggestion.

1 wouldn't be so bad if you could test the ones in less important areas. But the Panther was a good tank, armor-wise and gun-wise. It just had problems (at least at first) with reliability. To my knowledge, so did a lot of the German tanks. So instead of 1, go for:

3

and pray that those Panthers get fixed quick.

I like these threads.

[discovery1]

Who cares if they work? Just make sure there are too few to influence the outcome of the battle.

[PanzerJaeger]

Hitler loved his toys, so 2 is totally out of the question.

Choosing between 1 and 3 is difficult.

Ive got to go with 1 though. The Pz.IV and Tiger crews were amazing at that time, and the disadvantages of the former were completely made up for by the skills of their crews.

Let Hitler play in an unimportant theater, and they'll be perfected in time for the next one.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

That sounds more like option #1. I think the ideal solution would be a hybrid of 1 & 3.

[Kagemusha]

i would say number three.

[Kraxis]

The Flight of the Big Cat
As Speer talks about the Panther you can see how Hitler is impressed and almost like a little boy when he finds a new toy. He tried to rush past the trouble of the reliability of the Panther, but you jump at it.
"Mein Führer, the Panther is obviously going to be a superb tank in battle, and I woul lov to have it with me when we attack." You turn to Speer. "I urge you Minister Speer, to get as many as possible out on the front at once."
Hitler looks back and forth between the two of you, clearly filled with joy, but before he can say anything you do what must be done. "I want all the tanks you have at the moment, right now! The problems of the tanks going up in flames for no apparent reason is debilitating, I want that ironed out as soon as possible. And we all know that the best way to test a tank is on the battlefield. Send a lot of technicians as well." Now Hitler is less joyful.
"Wait a second Herr Field Marshall." Ow, when he uses titles it can't be good. "The Panther should stay in stock where the technicians can work on it, and it will remain a secret. It is important that we do not let this advantage slip."
"If we had time I would agree, but since time is of the essence we must send it out right away. The quirks and problems arise much faster at the front and can thus much easier be corrected, besides the time will not allow the Russians to react to the Panther, now will they need to as there won't be that many."
"Hmmm... I'm not happy about such a case. Remember what happened with the Tiger when my generals wanted it fast at the front?" You remember clearly what happened to it, though the general had a very small part in it.
"Yes, I remember. But this is an entirely new case. The Tiger was meant to be a rude shock, the Panther is meant to be a main battle tank, hiding it won't help much really."
"Very well, I can accept that, but you better not squander them."
Right then Speer joins in. "But we haven't produced more than some 20 operational tanks, what are they worth? Such a low number would be problematic for the logistics." Hitler of course favours Speer. "I hadn't thought of that, yes hold them back."
"No... The minor problem with the logistics will be overcome, we are already having several other trial units. What about von Richthofens' cannon Stukas? There are what, 6 of them? Have the Luftwaffe complained about that? In any case, we have to do this. I can't imagine the trouble if we lost some 100 tanks because of reliability in a major battle. This way we risk less, we are already far behind in tank numbers, we can't afford to have all the important tanks break down."
Speer nods, seeing your argument. And with his agreement Hitler is once again put in a tough spot, he has no more rational points to make. For another couple of minutes you fight Hitler over the issue, going through the entire range of mental states, you rage, argue, begs, urge, demands and even threaten to resign. In the end you are exhausted, but Hitler is even more so. He waves you off with a short comment. "Fine, have it your way!"

On the way out again you get a promiss from Speer that he will send the tanks and technicians to the front right away. And you make a point in creating the 1st Panther Experimental Battalion and assigning it to SS Panzer Das Reich.

Now that you have more or less free hands, you begin to wonder where you will find the reinforcements for your troops. You are aiming for an attack in early April, but the bad weather and mud might postpone that, you have to be prepared.

What are you going to do?

1: Deplete your own right flank down by the Sea of Azov. You already did that when you reinforced your troops forthe counteroffensive. It has since been brought up to strength more or less again. Of course it wouldn't be enough, and you think of taking armour from the north.

2: Demand armour from the west. Right now there are a number of Tigers lingering in Italy for no purpose really, problem is that Hitler is very 'protective' of Italy, and he might countermand your order so you will end up with a limited number of tanks from France and the Balkans.

3: Shuffle your own troops around concentrating them yourself, and have Model do the same in the north of the salient. At the same time you will place an ultimate demand on reinforcements and replacements from Germany. Effectively you won't deplete any area but then again they won't get up to strength at all.

4: Try to do it all. You won't be able to fight anybody over it for any length of time or with any strength, but if you succeed you will gain a most powerful force in a very short time. Also while you might fail in a few departments you might still get more out of it.

[Kagemusha]

number 4.You need every trick in the book to make this happen.

[AggonyDuck]

Number 4...as Kagemusha said we need every trick in the book..

[DemonArchangel]

The problem here is that by depleting your flanks to assault the Kursk salient, you're tipping off Soviet intelligence to the fact that you're going launch an attack on the Kursk salient. Thus, the Soviets can react accordingly, either by heavily defending the Kursk salient, as they did in real life, or by attacking elsewhere, like at Kharkov for example.

What needs to be done here is to seize the intiative and to seize it with all possible speed, hit the Soviets when they least expect it, where they least expect it. Unfortunately, because an assault on the Kursk salient is the only real option (Hitler was right about the Italians, Romanian and Hungarians collapsing), either a ruse must be employed to draw the Russians out of the Kursk salient, or a strike must be made at all possible speed with the greatest concentration of firepower possible.

And btw, don't rely on Model, he's nothing but an idiot, in fact, deplete him to put emphasis on the southern part of the pincer.

[discovery1]

Drain the west. Huskey be damned. This is where the war will be won, and draining other areas of the east will tip off the reds like DA said.

Although if you think you can keep the withdraw of troops from else where in the east a secret, or do it faster than the reds can reinforce the salient, then draw them from everywhere.

[dgfred]

The problem here is that by depleting your flanks to assault the Kursk salient, you're tipping off Soviet intelligence to the fact that you're going launch an attack on the Kursk salient. Thus, the Soviets can react accordingly, either by heavily defending the Kursk salient, as they did in real life, or by attacking elsewhere, like at Kharkov for example.

What needs to be done here is to seize the intiative and to seize it with all possible speed, hit the Soviets when they least expect it, where they least expect it. Unfortunately, because an assault on the Kursk salient is the only real option (Hitler was right about the Italians, Romanian and Hungarians collapsing), either a ruse must be employed to draw the Russians out of the Kursk salient, or a strike must be made at all possible speed with the greatest concentration of firepower possible.

And btw, don't rely on Model, he's nothing but an idiot, in fact, deplete him to put emphasis on the southern part of the pincer.

Whoa Model was no idiot! What do you base that statement on?

[PanzerJaeger]

2. At this point it would be best to take all armored forces out of the West. The allies are focusing all their attention on Italy where armored forces are not important to hold them.

[PanzerJaeger]

Whoa Model was no idiot! What do you base that statement on?

That was quite an interesting statement indeed. Id like to hear his basis for it aswell.

[Franconicus]

2. At this point it would be best to take all armored forces out of the West. The allies are focusing all their attention on Italy where armored forces are not important to hold them.

Who knows? They can also attack Southern France or Greece.