can the holocaust be denied?

[VAE VICTUS]

ok some book i saw tried to refute the holocaust, i think the evidence is pretty strong in favor of that it did happen,where do you get bone heaps, and skeletal bodies, the local thrift store?

[InsaneApache]

the deniers say it was an epidemic of typhus that did the damage....so what were the ovens for, making pies?

I used to know a chap (now deceased) who was in the BUF* in the 30s and he maintained until he died it was a hoax perportrated by the Allies...just why they should do this when the war was clearly won remains a mystery.

*Here

[Rosacrux redux]

Not more holocaust denial, pleeeeease...

It's getting bloody tiresome, ain't it? The evidence is extremely strong, thousands of people who managed to survive the death camps has testified for it, many, many Germans testified and said it was there and it did happen, there are the ovens, the bone mounds... I mean, revisionist history is fun, but not everything has to be revised.

[Franconicus]

No, it is illegal in Germany!

[Adrian II]

Not more holocaust denial, pleeeeease...

Seconded, for the exact same reasons.

I do not mean to question the original posters intentions and I think his question is valid, but we have done this, been there. We have also discussed all the secundary questions such as the wisdom of laws against Holocaust denial, the motives of deniers, the reason why historiography is and must be constantly revised and updated.

[hellenes]

Well Rosacrux its the pinnacle of democracy and freedom of speech when its very convinient to people labelling others as "nazis" without themselves having any evidence just OPINIONS and forcing the silence of those that have a different opinion.
Holocaust denial is ILLEGAL in many countries like GERMANY and of course ISRAEL. Also if anyone states that he s facing trial before a Israeli court no matter where he did the statement.
We all know how the Israelis capitalised on the Holocaust industry, and that toghether with their obsession with shutting mouths of denial raises some serious issues.
The second Leuchter Report is quite interesting...


Hellenes

Edit: Point proved.

[Kraxis]

While the Israeli state is extremely good at pulling that card out when something or somebody goes against them, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

[Adrian II]

The second Leuchter Report is quite interesting...

Brother Hellenes, you are no doubt aware of the Forum rules.

Examples of objectionable messages include, but are not limited to: [..] Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

Thank you for removing the direct Leuchter link, Brother Hellenes.

If you feel that such views can stand up to scrutiny, I suppose you can take them to the Backroom.

[hellenes]

Brother Hellenes, you are no doubt aware of the Forum rules.

Examples of objectionable messages include, but are not limited to: [..] Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

The least you can do now to correct your mistake is to take this issue to the Backroom.

I didnt expect to have my point proved so fast....
Thank you.

Hellenes

[Ser Clegane]

The least you can do now to correct your mistake is to take this issue to the Backroom.

Yeah - I'm really looking forward to have Leuchter's "theories" discussed in the Backroom ...

Thanks, Adrian

[Adrian II]

Yeah - I'm really looking forward to have Leuchter's "theories" discussed in the Backroom ...

Thanks, Adrian

Sorry to impose on you, Brother Ser Clegane. This is your call, not mine. Such are the burdens of moderation.
But whom am I telling that?

[Ser Clegane]

Sorry to impose on you, Brother Ser Clegane. This is your call, not mine. Such are the burdens of moderation.
But whom am I telling that?

Don't worry - I would also consider Leuchter to be a Backroom topic - just not one I would personally like (too frustrating, as you will not see anybody give one inch of ground in such a discussion - considering the topic this rather leads to unpleasant exchanges)

[master of the puppets]

i have read Mein Compf (curiosity) and i must say that judging simply on what the crazy bastard wrote in his book i have no doubts he probably went through with it and thats with no evidence at all.

btw it was a crappy book

[Brenus]

The holocaust can’t be denied for the simple fact the Nazi never denied it. They said it wasn’t me but he (Hitler, Himmler and others who commit suicide if possible), the courageous supermen, but they never try to play this card.
People who try to deny it have the burden of the proof. They have to give the bills for concrete, wires and wood for the barracks. They have to give evidences, named the general in charge, provide the names of the companies hired to build the camps by the allies. They of course can’t, so they spread rumours, allegations etc…
Just read Speer, the only Nazi with remorse and main architect of Hitler, and that is enough.

[Papewaio]

Leuchter Report is as accurate as saying the Earth is Flat.

It has been totally ripped apart by eye witness accounts and forensic science.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Faurisson once made a logic argument that we could not know that the Holacaust had occurred since only personal experience is true knowledge and no one had personal experience of the death chambers to relate.

Fancy solopsism is you ask me, and inane, but some folks will use anything to bolster their own prejudiced views on some subjects.

[Kraxis]

Faurisson once made a logic argument that we could not know that the Holacaust had occurred since only personal experience is true knowledge and no one had personal experience of the death chambers to relate.

Fancy solopsism is you ask me, and inane, but some folks will use anything to bolster their own prejudiced views on some subjects.

Well there are always the guys who actually poured the Zyklon B down the tubes to the chambers, and those who pulled the victims out.

[LeftEyeNine]

May I have the link of Leuchter report as PM please.. (it was removed since it was illegal being false, wasn't it ?)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You can't argue weather it happened, but you can argue over the number of dead.

Estimates range from as low as 200,000 to up to 20 million.

[Kraxis]

You can't argue weather it happened, but you can argue over the number of dead.

Estimates range from as low as 200,000 to up to 20 million.

But isn't the usual figure somewhere around 11 million? ~6 million Jews, ~3 million Gypsies and ~2 million various.

[PanzerJaeger]

Its actually quite interesting, if you read up on it, many of the aspects held up as "proof" are easily explained as well.

The strongest evidence is the testimony of Germans themselves, which makes the whole holocaust denial movement untenable, although convincing arguments have been forwarded.

[Watchman]

You know, if one assumes the Holocaust didn't happen it'd be really interesting to know in exactly what circumstances those large chunks of concrete were clawed off the ceilings of the gas chambers, and by whom...

[Brenus]

You can't argue weather it happened, but you can argue over the number of dead.
Estimates range from as low as 200,000 to up to 20 million.
Euh, to organise the systematic killing of entire populations, even if the minimal figure you give would be right (and it isn’t, for only the concentration camp of Strutoff, in Alsace, the estimate victims are around 5 000) would be still an crime. And it was a small camp. Just the forced labour killed more than that. If you add the extermination camps, the extermination commando and the retaliation against civilians, you reach bigger figures instantly…
And it not only the Nazis from Germany, but you can add the victims killed by their allies (Croats, for example).

if one assumes the Holocaust didn't happen: They will have to give and explain how and who built Auschwitz, Birkenau, Majdaneck, Dachau, Buchenwald, Mauthausen etc, with the orders, the organisation(s) which built the camps, the invoices, the planning etc… And why, Germany was defeated…

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well Rosacrux its the pinnacle of democracy and freedom of speech when its very convinient to people labelling others as "nazis" without themselves having any evidence just OPINIONS and forcing the silence of those that have a different opinion.
[...]
The second Leuchter Report is quite interesting...

Quite interesting is saying that the holocaust is just OPINION followed by a signature that reads:

'The Hellenic genocide...it's cover-up made the Holocaust possible'

[Byzantine Prince]

hellenes just reached the pinnacle of hypocrisy. Well done fellow brother ellin!

[The Stranger]

Leuchter Report is as accurate as saying the Earth is Flat.

isnt it flat...you lier i dont want to hear this kinda stuff...bleugh how can you deny that the earth is flat...i saw my dad fall off it with my own 2 eyes

[Kaiser of Arabia]

But isn't the usual figure somewhere around 11 million? ~6 million Jews, ~3 million Gypsies and ~2 million various.

6 to 12 million is what I usually hear. 6 million jews, 4 million catholics, 2 million assorted. 6 million poles usually.

[Reverend Joe]

isnt it flat...you lier i dont want to hear this kinda stuff...bleugh how can you deny that the earth is flat...i saw my dad fall off it with my own 2 eyes

Stranger, I hate to break it to you, but I think your dad might have just taken a dive into the grand canyon.

And anyone who really thinks the holocaust is refutable (Hellenes, I'm looking at you), I would really appreciate you explaining why there are huge wings of my family tree that are simply cut off around 1941-45. I am talking about dozens of people. Did they all just get lost?

[Kraxis]

6 to 12 million is what I usually hear. 6 million jews, 4 million catholics, 2 million assorted. 6 million poles usually.

You don't mention gypsies at all, which were the second largest single group targeted and indeed 3 million were killed... They were also 'unwanted'. Is it really that unknown??? I guess they didn't have some sort of political lobbygroup to work their agenda afterwards.

[Suraknar]

6 to 12 million is what I usually hear. 6 million jews, 4 million catholics, 2 million assorted. 6 million poles usually.

What do the Catholics have to do with it? I mean the French are Catholic, the Poles are Catholic too amongst many ofther Catholic Nations that were at War with Nazi Germany...

The Haulocaust was not a religious crime, it was an enthnic crime, the Jews were targeted for their ethnic identity as were the gypsies...besides...Italy was an Ally of Nazi Germany and last I checked Italy is catholic.

All in all this Terrible War made more than 50 Million dead.