Serialized novel: OFFICER’S HONOR

[Kagemusha]

Thanks for the kind words Franconicus. How i see this is that its essential for the survival of the Germany and whole East Europe to turn The Allies against eachother. Now that there is no more idealogigal war between Germany and the Western allies. We should try to pursuit peace negotiations with the Western allies. Maybe Finland could help, becouse they had an diplomatic contact to United States through the whole war provided by Sweden.
Btw i disagree on the Italian coup.I think the only way to open the Western eyes towards our cause is to show them that there might be even worse ruling parties, then German military.(Read communist coup)

[King Kurt]

Franconius - sorry there has been no input from me recently - too busy at work!!
My thoughts;

1) Stalin's sounds about right - I think that Zukov would be more aggressive, throw everything against the roumanians, attack every where, encourage all communist resistance groups across Europe to step up activities to keep the pot boiling.

2) Italy sounds right - I am sure that Mussolini still will have his date with a lamp post.

3) Churchill sounds wrong - I can't see him going for Bulgaria - the scar of the Dardenelles must still be on his mind. Even if the Turks agreed passage, assistance etc - not that likely I would say, memories of WW1, strong links with Germany etc - any invasion force going through the Dardenelles would be a sitting duck for air and sub attack. So I see the following as more likely.
Churchill likes the soft southern belly approach, so what about attacks on some of the following - Sardina, Corsica for air bases to cover the invasion of Southern France, Greece - Churchill was fascinated with it and surpressed the Communist revolt at the end of the war - again for airbases to cover an invasion of yugoslavia to link up with the partisans. Historical hindsight says that invading Scilly and Italy were, on the whole, a bit of a waste - very defensable ground all the way to Switzaland. It's only use is to take Italy out the war - and that effectively happened with Mussolini needing student's assistance as the Italian forces are obliviously falling apart. If i was Churchill, I would also order another, bigger, Dieppe style raid - (hopefully with all the lessons of the previous year remembered) to see what transpires. Churchill, I think, would still see the defeat of Germany as the main aim of their war effort. The memories of the last 4 years would not dissappear overnight - he would worry about the soviets - don't want to change Europe dominated by Germany to Europe dominated by russia - but the Soviets are still facing the vast majority of the German forces and the German mobile forces are required to respond to uprisings in Germany and the occupied territories as well as the inevietable Soviet attack (Churchill's intellegence would be very aware of that)
4) The unknown is the Americans. Mid 43 sees them worried about Japan - Guadacanal etc - and they need the Brits for all of that, if only for the bases of India and Austrailia. Also, as more emerges about the final solution, the Americans will want to bring Germany to book. Finally, they need a Europe which is in their sphere for trade - the European market is still the principle place for American goods, so I see them as keeping the pressure on through bombing and working with the Brits.

So - a few thoughts to keep the pot boiling. The problem Manstein has is that all over Europe everybody has millions of reasons to mistrust and hate the Germans, so the " Hitler was a bad man and we were only obeying orders, so let's be friends" approach is not going to work. 43 was the period of the war when the Allies "unconditional surrender" approach appears, so I see tough times ahead for Manstein.

[Franconicus]

kagemusha,
I do not think that it is easy to find an agreement with US and GB - though not impossible either. You cannot say, well the Nazis were the bad guys who bombed your towns and sunk your ships, but we are German military and we are different. The best card is the fear of communism. At least Churchill does not want to have a communist European mainland. Roosevelt - I guess he does not care.
Another option is to make peace with Stalin. Although our three generals would not like that this option would increase the pressure on the US.
Please do not forget that the German military wants to have a German domination in Europe.

KK,
In general I agree with you. However I do not think that Churchill will land at the continent before Overlord. He is not the person for a big miliotary adventure. Further more in 1943 the Brits are not able to have a strategy of their own. They depand on the US and the US demand the leadership. Churchill may pretend that he is still leading a worldwide empire, but in fact he has to follow the US.

[Franconicus]

Chapter 8:

THE WESTERN ALLIES

Same time Roosevelt and his Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall have a conference Washington. Roosevelt wonders if it is possible to find an agreement with the new German government. Maybe it is not necessary to invade the European mainland. That would reduce the cost of American lives and the military could focus on Japan. He wants to stop all activities of the army. The bombing should be enough at the moment.

Marshall tells him that it is far too late to stop ‘Husky’. Everything is ready and scheduled.

Roosevelt gives in. So the landing in Sicily will take place. Regarding Normandy he postpones any decision. Staff shall prepare everything. No one knows which way Germany will go actually. Maybe it is good to have the option to attack the German forces directly at France and then go straight to Berlin. Marshall agrees.

Marshall reminds the president that the British still oppose the French plans and favor operations in the Med.. Roosevelt smiles: “I know. Our British friends love to beat about the bush. Now that Hitler is gone there is absolutely no reason to go a long way round. If necessary we will go straight to Berlin. This I promise to you. And I have no doubt that Winston has the same opinion. I will call him this evening. Maybe we should consult Uncle Joe immediately, too!”

Late in the evening Roosevelt and Churchill have a long phone conference. After a long controversial discussion they agree to land in Sicily according plan. The US and British staff will discuss where the next operations will take place.

Churchill and Roosevelt agree to meet mid of July to make the final decision and to adjust the new strategy, the conditions for peace talks and the relationship to Stalin. Before that there will be no direct consultations with Stalin.

Roosevelt insists to contact the new German government as soon as possible. Churchill rushes him not to start any consultations as long as the British American conditions are not arranged.

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ZHUKOV

July 8th. After the meeting with Stalin Zhukov wonders what to do. Most of the Soviet forces are concentrated at the Kursk area. And those are not prepared for any prompt offensive operation.

Stalin expects the German to be in confusion. Maybe he is right. Maybe now is the time to attack.

Zhukov meets the commanders of the three Kursk fronts, Rokkosovsky, Vatutin and Konew. They tell him that recon shows that the Germans are leaving. It seems that the Germans are pulling their tank divisions back. Partisans report of an endless stream of German troops heading west. The whole HGr. Süd is on the move. At Kursk Romanian divisions replace German. Latest reports tell that the same happens at HGr. Mitte. Same reports from the North Caucasus and South Fronts. In the south the Germans seem to prepare the clearance of the Kuban mouth and maybe even Crimea. From north to south the German lines are getting thinner and thinner.

What are the intentions of the fascists? Are they retreating? Are they going to fight an invasion of the Americans? Are they going back to Germany to fight a civil war? Did the new German government decide to leave Russia? Or – is this nothing but a big trap?

Zhukov hates the situation. He does not know who is leading the German forces now. What are his plans? He feels a bit helpless. Twice the Germans managed to take the Russians by surprise. In 1941 when nobody expected a German invasion and in 1942 when they attacked at the southern section instead attacking Moscow for the second time. Both times the Russians paid a huge price. And when they finally thought they could chase the Germans after the battle of Stalingrad this Manstein suddenly conjured up some tank corps and turned the Russian invasion into a bloody disaster.

Anyway, Zhukov remembers Stalin’s words and he knows that he has no choice. He has to attack and hope for the best. So he reminds his commander of Stalin’s order and demands their proposals.

Rokkosovsky makes his proposal: “Let the entire south wing attack. This includes 7 fronts from Bryansk to North Caucasus. Each front is stronger than its German opponent. We will chase the Germans out of Ukraine.”

Zhukov shakes his head: “This is far too dangerous. We do not know where the German tanks are. If we act without care we may run into a trap like we did this spring.”

Vatutin agrees: “Your right, General Zhukov! The most dangerous parts of the German army are the tank corps. Intelligence reports that they have new improved tank models. Maybe the T34 is outgunned now. We must beat them before we launch a big invasion. But how can we beat them if we do not know where they are? Let’s see if comrade Konew knows the answer!”

“Of course I do, Vatutin! We have to attack something that is so precious to the Germans that they will attack us. Then we can use our advantage regarding ATGs, too.”

“I see we have the same idea.” Vatutin replies. “So let us start the operation with our three fronts. We have the most tank units in the whole army. And thousands of ATGs. Let’s break through the German lines. Then stop Central and Voronesz while Steppe turns south to attack Charkow. If we are lucky we can encircle the 8th army! I bet Fritz will attack us then!”

Konew disagrees: “No, no, no! Charkow is nothing but ruins. I doubt that the Germans will try to defend it. And I doubt that Stalin wants only one front to attack. No! We must think big! Let’s break through the lines and then keep on pushing straight westwards! Voronesz will go straight to Kiev while the other fronts secure the flanks. The Germans will try to stop us. Kiev is too valuable to loose. Then we have all three fronts ready for the big strike. Once we defeated the German tanks Voronesz and Central can take Kiev while Steppe heads for Tscherkassy and crosses the Dnjepr there. The other fronts – Bryansk, Southwestern, South and North Caucasus can then join the attack. And while they attack the Germans frontal Steppe will break in their rear and take Odessa. Central and Voronesz can assist and cover this operation. Finally we will cut off the entire Heeresgruppe Süd!”

Now Zhukov has to decide.

1. Rokkosovsky’s proposal: Attack at the entire front. If the Germans are really in disorder this might be the best decision. However you have no idea where those damned German tanks are. If they ambush you this operation could end as a big fiasco.
2. Vatutin’s plan: Start with a small scale attack. Taking Charkow would certainly threaten the Donesz area and give you a good position for further attacks. However, Stalin will not be very happy to see only one front fight.
3. Konew’s plan: Cutting off the entire Heeresgruppe! Stalin will love this plan. It would defeat the Germans at the southern area completely and open the door to Romania. This could end the war. But isn’t this too daring?

[King Kurt]

Now this is tricky. If we act as Russians, we probably choose 1 or 3 with 1 being favourite as this is similar to what happened in 1944. It also seems the more cautious, all out attack version. With our inside knowledge maybe 2 is better - an initial strong probe, some sucess then possible exploitation - but the Russians don't know the true picture.

So I think 1 - it seems the most Russian and Rokkosovsky was Zhukov's (and mine!) favorite general.

As for Churchill, I think a large scale Dieppe raid would appeal to him. It could stir up a hornet's nest and if things go well, then it could be expanded. If it goes badly then just withdraw. Its main use would be to draw a response from the Germans - and the Vichy French - would the Vichy government see it as an opportunity to cut their losses and come back to the Allies? Memories of Oran might be a problem - but they didn't put up a fight to Torch did they.

[Franconicus]

Now this is tricky. If we act as Russians, we probably choose 1 or 3 with 1 being favourite as this is similar to what happened in 1944. It also seems the more cautious, all out attack version. With our inside knowledge maybe 2 is better - an initial strong probe, some sucess then possible exploitation - but the Russians don't know the true picture.

So I think 1 - it seems the most Russian and Rokkosovsky was Zhukov's (and mine!) favorite general.

As for Churchill, I think a large scale Dieppe raid would appeal to him. It could stir up a hornet's nest and if things go well, then it could be expanded. If it goes badly then just withdraw. Its main use would be to draw a response from the Germans - and the Vichy French - would the Vichy government see it as an opportunity to cut their losses and come back to the Allies? Memories of Oran might be a problem - but they didn't put up a fight to Torch did they.

King,

1) is what they did after Kursk, when the German tank divisions were exhausted and German troops were send to the western fronts. So our scenario is a bit different.
3) is similar to the operation early this year when Manstein managed to stop them. So I would not call it 'Not Russian'!
But I do not want to influence you. Aren't you called 'hammer of the east'?

Regarding Vichy: Petain has nothing to win when the Allies take France and bring de Gaule. Though he will not support the Germans I doubt that he will ever fight with the Allies. His army is a different thing. Most of his troops wont fight the allies if they attack France. Some may even join them.

Dieppe: What can Churchill win with another small landing? Although he controls the sea the Grman Luftwaffe is still fighting and the German army in France is strong enough to fight a small scale invasion. Probably the German staff would call some units from Russia to enforce France; but that is not what Churchill wants right now. And theUS would be angry too.

[King Kurt]

King,

1) is what they did after Kursk, when the German tank divisions were exhausted and German troops were send to the western fronts. So our scenario is a bit different.
3) is similar to the operation early this year when Manstein managed to stop them. So I would not call it 'Not Russian'!
But I do not want to influence you. Aren't you called 'hammer of the east'?.

Both seem quite Russian to me, but the more Russian seems 1) - attack all along the line and find the weakness as opposed to long sweeping encircling attacks. As for the "Hammer of the East" - that is from my MTW exploits as the English in a recent campaign as opposed to anything deeper!! After more recent exploits, it should be changed to destroyer of the Welsh!!

Regarding Vichy: Petain has nothing to win when the Allies take France and bring de Gaule. Though he will not support the Germans I doubt that he will ever fight with the Allies. His army is a different thing. Most of his troops wont fight the allies if they attack France. Some may even join them..

I just see the Vichy involvement as another angle - sort of rats leaving the sinking ship etc - Petain wouldn't welcome DeGaulle, but a coup or revolt - who knows??

Dieppe: What can Churchill win with another small landing? Although he controls the sea the Grman Luftwaffe is still fighting and the German army in France is strong enough to fight a small scale invasion. Probably the German staff would call some units from Russia to enforce France; but that is not what Churchill wants right now. And theUS would be angry too.

I threw Dieppe in as another possibility - Churchill seemed to love these sort of adventures and it could spark a French/ Vichy uprising, especially if the germans become embroiled in some form of struggle in Germany.

Overall, I think the allies would seek to keep the germans off balance and exploit what happens.

[Franconicus]

Churchill already has a new operation against Germany on stock: GOMORRHA. It is already prepared and ready to launch. In combination with Husky - let's see how the Krauts react!

In Germany there is now a kind of hidden military government, formed by Guderian, Rommel and Manstein. Just like this story is ruled by the three K's: King Kurt, kagemusha and Kraxis. I wonder what strategy the other two prefer for the Russians.

[Kagemusha]

kagemusha,
I do not think that it is easy to find an agreement with US and GB - though not impossible either. You cannot say, well the Nazis were the bad guys who bombed your towns and sunk your ships, but we are German military and we are different. The best card is the fear of communism. At least Churchill does not want to have a communist European mainland. Roosevelt - I guess he does not care.
Another option is to make peace with Stalin. Although our three generals would not like that this option would increase the pressure on the US.
Please do not forget that the German military wants to have a German domination in Europe.

I think at this time after the Stalingrad and US joining on the war.Any field Marshall with half of brains know that the military victory for Germany is out of the question.
I believe that the most areas Germany could claim in a peace would the Eastern Prussia,Sudeten land,Elsas Lothringen and maybe that the Austria would unite with the Germany.
Our military is too stretched at the moment.We should leave from the areas that are not essential to our survival and protect the Fatherland.
Only way we can think that the Western Allies are willing to make peace with us is to make the Communist threat more scary then us.
I think we should continue the fight against Soviets.And infact i would be pleased to see a major Soviet attack against our forces at this stage.At the moment we still have the forces Germany possessed prior to the Battle of Kursk,and major Soviet attack against these forces could lead even more devastating defeat for the Soviets then our defeat against them in Stalingrad.
If they think they have impressive antitank guns,let them attack against our 88mm tank killers.

[Franconicus]

kagemusha,

1) Which areas would you give up? And what exactly would you do to make peace with the US?

2) Which option do you chose for Zhukov?

[Kagemusha]

kagemusha,

1) Which areas would you give up? And what exactly would you do to make peace with the US?

2) Which option do you chose for Zhukov?

1) France.The Communist coup after the withdraw of our our forces it would be more then likely that an communist coup would accur there. Also the Western Allies have no capacity in this point to immediately send in enough soldiers to take control of the area.And if they do,would they like to take the casulties for crossing the Canal and Mediterranian, under our attacks becouse they just dont want make a cease fire with us based on principle.
We would still hold Netherlands,Belgium,Denmark and Norway for stakes for better conditions in the possible peace negotations.

2) option number 1)If the Soviets assault every where they dont stand a chance. Without a concentrated attack on some weak point it will be like the wawes against a beach rock.(Notice its completely biased answer towards the Germans).

[Franconicus]

1) I will think about it! I guess I have to prepare a peace offer, but first I have to install a government
2) Please try to chose what is best and mostlikely for the Russians. I want this scenario to be as plausible as possible. It is a pity that we do not have any Russian or American members on board.

[Kagemusha]

1) I will think about it! I guess I have to prepare a peace offer, but first I have to install a government
2) Please try to chose what is best and mostlikely for the Russians. I want this scenario to be as plausible as possible. It is a pity that we do not have any Russian or American members on board.

Ok Franconicus - san. If i were the Russian commander i would choose the option 2) The Vatutins plan. A small class attack would not lead into big catastrophy,and if the Germans would be stupid enough they could even start an counter attack and be lured into trap.

[Franconicus]

So one vote for Rokkosovsky's plan, one vote for Vatutin and no vote for Konew.
We have not enough votes for a good democracy

[Kraxis]

Hmmm... Zhukov was a bright man who didn't like Stalin's idea one bit, but he did them to his best ability.

So Stalin want #1, but Zhukov is very much against that, so it is out. #2 is moer what Zhukov wants. A limited offensive to test the Germans and prepare. But here Stalin will object too much for safety.

#3 on the other hand will be so-so with both thus it is the only option Zhukov will entertain to any degree. But trouble is that it is Konev that proposed it (I would swap persons on #1 and #2, Rokossovsky was a brilliant tactician while Vatutin was more classical Russian), and Zhukov wasn't too keen on him.

#3 it has to be.

[Franconicus]

Hmmm... Zhukov was a bright man who didn't like Stalin's idea one bit, but he did them to his best ability.

So Stalin want #1, but Zhukov is very much against that, so it is out. #2 is moer what Zhukov wants. A limited offensive to test the Germans and prepare. But here Stalin will object too much for safety.

#3 on the other hand will be so-so with both thus it is the only option Zhukov will entertain to any degree. But trouble is that it is Konev that proposed it (I would swap persons on #1 and #2, Rokossovsky was a brilliant tactician while Vatutin was more classical Russian), and Zhukov wasn't too keen on him.

#3 it has to be.

Excellent analysis. So its 1 : 1: 1. Hope we get another vote or the war is over before the Zhukov has made up his mind

[Kagemusha]

So now we have one vote for each.Who is going to give the decisive vote?
Edit:GAH!Franc beated me.

[Franconicus]

No I didn't!
Maybe you should take a look at the map. I think the strategic plan is very important. So we better think twice (or threetimes) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Karte_Ukraine.png

[Kagemusha]

You are right. Here is a link that shows the Kursk Operation and also almost the whole Eastern Front in 1943.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...to_1943-08.png

[JimBob]

Konew’s plan: Cutting off the entire Heeresgruppe! Stalin will love this plan. It would defeat the Germans at the southern area completely and open the door to Romania. This could end the war. But isn’t this too daring?

Stalin would leap at this plan. He would see it as a second Uranus and would likely be giddy (not often do I describe dictators as giddy) at how a victory like that would look. And since it is Stalin's decision, #3.

[Franconicus]

Thank you JimBob, you really saved my day
It's good to have an American on board. Maybe you can help us with the next question?

So after a strong finish number three made it: Konew's plan. So let's give Zhukov a break to think about the details. We have to fix some details before the fighting can start again:


THE NEW GERMAN GOVERNMENT

Just a couple of hours after Himmler’s death you arrive. You talk with Guderian and Rommel. You are very satisfied with the situation so far. In fact it is just the three of you that rule the country now. July 2nd you have a meeting of the new formed government formed:

Goebbels, pro forma Kanzler
Guderian, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces
von Manstein, Commander-in-Chief East, responsible for the operations against Russia
Rommel, Commander-in-Chief West, responsible for all fronts against the western allies
Galland, Commander of the Luftwaffe
Dönitz, Großadmiral of the Kriegsmarine
Speer, Armament Minister
Ameluxen, Interior Minister
Adenauer, Foreign Minister
Graf Schwerin von Krosigk, Finance Minister

Rudolf Amelunxen and Konrad Adenauer are former members of the Zentrum party. Adenauer has excellent connections to the Vatican and to the Ford Motor Company.

Guderian opens the first meeting. He explains the goals: Keep the order, install a constitutional state, end the war against the US and GB, defeat the Soviets and install a German state in the borders of 1939.

He shortly summarizes the activities since Hitler’s death. The leaders of the putsch are arrested; the structures of the SS are battered. The next steps will be the execution of the SS as a political organization.

Rommel and you report of the situation at the fronts. You estimate that the Russians will soon attack with the emphasis at the south.

Rommel talks about the threat of an Allied landing in the next of weeks. Possible targets are Greece, Italy or Southern France.

Dönitz describes the naval situation. The Med is under control of the western allies. The big surface ships cannot operate any longer. Radar technology and very long range planes made the losses of the submarines raise dramatically, while their successes are decreasing. He ordered to stop the fighting until new improved submarine types are available. Only a small number is currently attacking ‘soft spots’.

Galland’s analysis of the air war is not pleasant. The Luftwaffe is in defense everywhere. The losses in Africa and in Russia are devastating. At no front the Luftwaffe is able to keep initiative. And Germany will soon have to face a new Allied offensive over the home territory. The Luftwaffe is not prepared for this challenge. Galland demands to put a strong focus on the fighter production. The bombing of GB leads to nothing. Resources must be taken from the bombers. You contradict. You need more support on the Russian battle ground. But Galland insists: If we do not try to get back the domination in the air now, we will loose it forever. Speer and Rommel support his position. Galland also says that he is enthused by the new jet fighter of Messerschmidt. This is the weapon to stop the Allied bomber armadas. One jet will be worth 4 conventional fighters.

Speer promises to increase the production of tanks and planes. His target is a 50% increase in 1943 and the same in 1944. This will include new technology weapons like the Tiger or Panther tank. The Me262 had already its start of production. Other weapons are in development.

To increase the production Speer demands support to reach his goals. Massive bomb raids at day must be prevented. Additionally he needs hundred thousands of slave labors.

Adenauer gives an overview of the external situation. Stalingrad has damaged the image of Germany. Istanbul finally decided not to join the war against Russia. Should the Germans loose Crimea they might even join the Allies.

The situation in Rumania is very critical. The government there will probably try to make peace with Russia in case Germany looses Crimea. Hungary and Finland are still on our side. Adenauer will meet the ambassadors tomorrow. Manstein offers to visit Romania on his way back. He will ensure the Romanian leader that he will keep beat the Soviets.

Italy is most critical. The government of Mussolini is not strong. Further more the Duce is capricious and may try to make peace himself. The Italian army is neither willing nor able to fight the Western Allies. Two German divisions are currently supporting the Italian troops at Sicily: The Panzerdivision ‘Hermann Göring’ and a Panzergrenadierdivision. General Student concentrated 20,000 paratroops in the surroundings of Rome. Since last night Student and his men control Rome and the Italian government.

At the first meeting you make some important decisions:

1. Gestapo and SD will be suspended. The SS will convert to a military organization. All members get a military training by the Wehrmacht and will be integrated in new SS divisions. Most of the grades will come from the Wehrmacht. The SS divisions will be integrated completely in the Wehrmacht organization.
2. All prisons including the KZ will be under control of the Interior Minister. For a period the Wehrmacht will guard the prisoners and take care of food and medical care.
3. All executions have to be approved by the Interior Minister. Excluded are all convictions from the military courts.
4. Manstein will prepare a defensive operation to stop the foreseeable Russian invasion. The eastern front has priority. The goal is a decisive victory against the Russians and a good defensive line for the winter. Then troops will be released for other fronts.
5. Rommel will hold off any operations of the allies in the Med. He will also assure that the Italian government stays at the side of Germany.
6. The submarines will return to their bases and the bomb raids against GB will be stopped at once. The fighters will continue to repel Allies’ bomber raids.
7. The production of tanks and planes will be increased. Speer promises an increase of at least 50% in 1943 and in 1944.
8. The production of fighters and the training of fighter pilots have priority. The production of the Me262 will be accelerated. The organization for an effective home defense will be implemented at once.
9. A peace offer will be prepared. Diplomatic contacts will be built up to London and Washington immediately.

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WAR vs. BUSINESS

While the new German government starts to work the President of the United States meets representatives of the industry. The delegation is composed of Thomas J. Watson, IBM and President of the International Chamber of Commerce, ‘General’ William S. Knudson, former GM, now member of the National Defense Advisory Commission, Alfred Pritchard Sloan, Jr. (GM), Walter C. Teagle (Standard Oil), Prescott Bush and Henry Ford (Ford Motor Company). These men represent the biggest American industry companies.
Sloan starts the talking: ‘Mister President, first of all let me thank you that you for greeting us. You know all of us and know that we are strong American patriots. You know that we did the best we could to supply our boys with the equipment they need to fight fascism. We asked for this meeting because we all are concerned of the latest development in Europe and we would like to offer the government our advice and support to react in an appropriate way. But before we start the conversation please let me give you the best regards from Mr. Rockefeller. He shares our concerns and supports our visit.’
Roosevelt looks surprised: “Well, gentlemen, I thank you for your offer. What exactly are your concerns?”
Ford piped out: “The new situation in Europe. Hitler is dead. Isn’t it time to adjust the American foreign policy? We think that there is a good chance to come to an agreement with the German government. Most of the Germans are not mad fascists but reasonable businessmen. So I guess there should be a way to end this crazy war. Of course the Germans are worried about communism. But who would not in their position? I always thought that it was wrong for the US to support stalinism.”
Knudson cuts in on him: ‘’Ford wants to say that destroying Germany may not be the best strategy for America now. If Germany accepts a Europe of free and democratic nations and a free market, why should be bomb them? Do not forget that Germany is a strong bastion against communism, Mr. President. So why weaken them? If we find an arrangement with the Germans we could easily control the Soviets and we could concentrate our military efforts on Japan“.

“Germany would have to proof that it wants to return to a democracy of cause, Mr. President. And it would have to make concessions regarding the conquered territory. But an agreement is feasible. We could help you to contact the right persons at Berlin. It would be honor to serve our country this way”.
“Gentlemen, thank you all for your visit! I will think about your offer. If I made up my mind I will tell!”
What is Roosevelt going to do?

1. Keep on fighting until the unconditional surrender of Germany.
2. Listen to the advice, contact the Germans and send them the conditions for peace negotiations.
3. Wait until the situation is clearer and, first of all, consult Churchill and Stalin.

[King Kurt]

No truck with these appeasers - press on for unconditional surrender. Twice in the last 30 years the germans have thrown Europe in to choas with their militaristic ambitions, why let them off the hook now. Germany and Russia can exhaust themselves in the east and the US has a massive market they can dominate with their untouched economy while Europe's shattered economy will be totally reliant on the US for recovery. 40 years after the war ends every body will drink Coke a cola (hang on isn't that what happened in real life???) Twice this century Americans have had to die in Europe to solve its problems, to leave a strong Germany risks coming back again.

[Kagemusha]

I think the Tycoons have a point.But my answer will be number 3). At the moment US is still at war with the Germany and we should not send separate peace offerings without GB and other Western Allies knowing about it.We should contact Churchill and other Western allies leaders maybe in a secret meeting. At the moment we should also try to keep Stalin under the belief that everything is going as promised. In a military side we should postpone any major operations before the situation clears up. We should also contact someone in the German government secretly,so we could really find out whats happening there.
Incase that the Germans are turning away from facism,we should really think who is the bigger threat Germany without Nazi leadership or the communist dictatorship of Soviet Union.
If the German government is willing to pull back in the 1939 borders in the West and shows it can stop the Soviet attacks against it.it would really make sense to make peace with them. US wouldn not have to send more of its troops in Europe.We could concentrate on Fighting of The Japanese. And our indystry could make sure that the Germans and their Eastern allies can keep Europe free from communism.As i stated before What is worse a strong Germany in the Middle Europe or Soviet Empire in the Eastern Europe?

[Kraxis]

The situation is changed from 39... Germany will not have a 'we were stabbed in the back' excuse for a new war, in fact she will be allowed to fight her war to the end (against the SU). This is a prudent direction of power... And it is controlled by the Allies, it can't be any more perfect than this. Fascism is 'dead' and communism has certainly not strengthened. Western ideas will prevail if Germany can become a democracy again.

#3, Churchill needs to be in, besides Roosevelt wouldn't do any major deal without talking to him at least. If anything Mr. R. was a personal person, he believed in personal relations, thus Churchill needs to be contacted.
The trouble is Stalin... Roosevelt was not too distant from him, sure he was a leader of communism but Roosevelt again tried to play the personal card, and Stalin jumped at it, securing a lot in return.
I think he lacked the cynicism to ignore Stalin, but this time I think all his advisors will be able to pull him away.

[discovery1]

I would suggest that you consult Churchill, but leave Stalin in the cold. Baring that, #3. The German military seems to be throwing off it's tradition apoltical stance, and it seems to be in the Wests favor. Who knows, maybe Germany will become a democracy, which, with the support of the military, would be most stable. Maybe make that a condition for peace? The drafting of a democratic constitution. Cease fire, of a sort, until then.

Hmmm, maybe Manstein will set up that backhand blow?

[Kraxis]

Hmmm, maybe Manstein will set up that backhand blow?

Shhhh... Don't expose my little plan here.

[Franconicus]

So most of you want peace talks. At least one success for Manstein! But that leads to a couple of other questions:

1. What would be the requirements of Roosevelt for making peace?
2. What would be the requirements of Churchill?
(I know very well the position of the Germans and I can guess what Stalin wants!)

3. Include Stalin
3.a. Yes
3.b. No
3.c. Churchill and Roosevelt wouldn`t care if Germany goes on fighting the Soviets.

4. Postpone the attacks on Sicily and the bombing?
4.1. Yes.
4.2 No. Proceed as planned
4.3 Increase the attacks! This will show the Krauts that they have no other option than to do what the Western Allies want.

I know a lot of questions. Maybe I can give you the next chapter tomorrow!

[discovery1]

So most of you want peace talks. At least one success for Manstein! But that leads to a couple of other questions:

1. What would be the requirements of Roosevelt for making peace?
2. What would be the requirements of Churchill?
(I know very well the position of the Germans and I can guess what Stalin wants!)

3. Include Stalin
3.a. Yes
3.b. No
3.c. Churchill and Roosevelt wouldn`t care if Germany goes on fighting the Soviets.

4. Postpone the attacks on Sicily and the bombing?
4.1. Yes.
4.2 No. Proceed as planned
4.3 Increase the attacks! This will show the Krauts that they have no other option than to do what the Western Allies want.

I know a lot of questions. Maybe I can give you the next chapter tomorrow!

Well, I know I want to see Stalin left out in the cold. Hell, maybe even send the Jerrys weapons if they keep fighting the Sovs. And I know Churchill would be happy to let the Sovs and Jerrys keep fighting.

The others

1)Well, the recreation of states in the west. Almost certainly democratic ones. Also possibly a free Eastern Europe, although that won't happen as long as Jerry is fighting a war with the Russkies. Maybe even a constitutional gov in Germany.

2)Hmmm. Probably something harsh.

4)Hmmm. I don't want the Jerrys weakened in their fight against the Russkies. And maybe they would take it as a sign of good faith maybe. Manstein is a fairly honorable chap, yes?

[discovery1]

No one ese is replying...

I guess I'd better answer Churchills reqs.
Hmmm, Definitely pull out of Western Europe and Italy. Maybe Greece and Yugo too. Guarantee free and open elections in parts of Eastern Europe that have been occupied by Germany postwar. AND NO PEACE WITH THE SOVIETS! DEATH TO COMMUNISM!

Oh, and Churchill may also want some looks at Germany's lattest goodies, or at least the Me262.

Has the killing of 'undiserables' stopped? It seems to me that you don't make that clear in the latest post.

[Franconicus]

1. Gestapo and SD will be suspended. The SS will convert to a military organization. All members get a military training by the Wehrmacht and will be integrated in new SS divisions. Most of the grades will come from the Wehrmacht. The SS divisions will be integrated completely in the Wehrmacht organization.
2. All prisons including the KZ will be under control of the Interior Minister. For a period the Wehrmacht will guard the prisoners and take care of food and medical care.
3. All executions have to be approved by the Interior Minister. Excluded are all convictions from the military courts.

Undesireables? If you mean SS leaders, Gestapo and all those criminals - not yet. Regarding KZ - Jews, politlcal criminals (beside Nazis) - yes. All prisons are now guarded by Wehrmacht soldiers. They guanrantee food and medical care. And they are under the control of the Interior Minister, a democrat. However, they are still not free!

'Manstein is a fairly honorable chap, yes?'
Manstein is still in the fog. He is just leader of the easern armies. Kanzler is Goebbels!