What's your favorite STW MP Terrain?

[Trajanus]

I think the suggested mappack is the latest one. (can't remember the name).

[Mystic]

Im Back! Good to see everyone still around and some new faces i will be returning to shogun within the week got yet another new computer and decided to begin playing again ... Back to the topic at hand i think totomi due to its many strategic advantages and equalizers.

Until Next Time

[Shaka_Khan]

The latest map pack has maps that look like the Grand Canyon, and a map with flooded craters. There's even a Teletubbieland.

[Cha]

Hi Cha, Ive downloaded your new map and look forward to trying it out. I made a map quite some time ago,its in the last map pack in fact.
YG_Yagyu Homelands is the name, I put lots of work into making it as fair as possible and followed all the guidelines that Tosa and the rest of the talented modders and map makers gave and it turned out pretty good.Paolino made some good ones too which are also in the map pack, as you will by now know its quite a task putting a good custom map together but very rewarding indeed!



ShinGaiJin

We should include our maps to the tournament. They're perfect for a multiplayer game.

The latest map pack has maps that look like the Grand Canyon, and a map with flooded craters. There's even a Teletubbieland.

You're right. The people who made those are creative.

-One map had a river that isolated one player to the rest of the team. The opponents could gang up on that isolated player. The same went for the opposing team.

-One map had a huge mountain to climb up. Once you get up there, you see your opponent hundreds of meters below you, unless your opponent gets up before you do.

-A map with a volcano had a peculiar looking mountain that looked like a woman.

-I noticed after I created my map that I could cross a lake but not a river or a sea. I'm not sure if that's the reason that I could cross. Anyway, there's this other map created by someone that has a lake that looks like a river. People would think they would have to defend only at a bridge, and deploy a lot of missile units.

[Drisos]

Hey there Hoh Mystic!! Good to see you back

[Tomisama]

Want a whole new set of maps?

In our current Shogun Contest, we are using some of the maps from game’s original map set, but with the Attacker and Defender roles reversed.

Because the majority of these maps had advantages for Defenders in the South (bottom of the Radar map), they were not used to their full extent. But having the Attackers come from the Southern deployment changes everything.

Check it out

Maps used so far with attack from the South redirections:

Yamato and Tajima

[Trajanus]

Sounds like a damn good idea Tomi. Perhaps you could put together a little zip for us?

[Tomisama]

I didn’t change the maps (which everyone already has), just the Rules for the Contest. Making the Defenders the mandatory Attackers insures that they don’t set up camp in the Southern highlands that are present on many of the original game maps.

Imagine Tajima as it is normally played, with the Attackers in the North, Defenders on the highlands in the South.



Now consider the difference if attack has to come from the armies in the South, to the lowlands in the North.

It's a whole different battle.

[Mystic]

Hey Drisos! Good to see you friend

[Trajanus]

Ah I see, so no modding. Makes things easier incase of bugs! Good thinking.

[Goalie]

My favorite map is Matsu, i think that is the name sorry I dont know the exact name. It is the Usegi clan's capital. It has an awesome hill that your archers can just tear the enemies to peices. It is great for building up unit experience in campaign. I held off about 15 attacks on it. I barely lost anybody.

[Trajanus]

Mutsu, and yeah it is a good map for defending in SP. A bit unfair if you camp in MP but still.

[Togakure]

Speaking of nice camping sites, Aki comes to mind. Aki isn't the fairest map in the world, but players still seem to like it. I think it's particularly useful in a 2v2, when you have a couple of less-experienced players wanting to defend against more advanced players. Though defenders can (*yawn*) camp on the hills in back, Aki is a good map for "attacking" as the defender.

I remember a game where Yuuki-san and I "defended" Aki by setting up close to the front and adopting an attack attitude. Yuuki advanced to, held, and pressed from the center plain while I swept around quickly over the hills on the defender left with a lot of cav. Yuuki's army and my infantry and ranged units acted as a pivot point by moving into and then holding the large copse of trees at the defender left center. Our starting position, rapid and coordinated movement forward, and ceaseless pressure threw the attackers off balance and we won decisively after a fierce, fun battle.

Playing with players who have a fresh attitude/approach to maps can make a big difference in the quality of the battles.

[Puzz3D]

I remember a game where Yuuki-san and I "defended" Aki by setting up close to the front and adopting an attack attitude. Yuuki advanced to, held, and pressed from the center plain while I swept around quickly over the hills on the defender left with a lot of cav. Yuuki's army and my infantry and ranged units acted as a pivot point by moving into and then holding the large copse of trees at the defender left center. Our starting position, rapid and coordinated movement forward, and ceaseless pressure threw the attackers off balance and we won decisively after a fierce, fun battle.

I'm always looking to take the initiative if possible. It comes from many years of playing chess. If an attacker expects you to defend, you can get a short term advantage of surprise if you attack. There is the Sun Tzu principle of "know your enemy" at work here.

Some players were of the opinion that setting up to the front was an exploit because real armies wouldn't be that close when the battle started. The majority of players thought it was ok, and I saw a lot of these quick attack strategies used. I don't remember that particular battle, but, if I'm reading you right Toga, you started out on my left and swung your cav around to my right. That was a risky plan because the center has to hold longer, but I agree it's fun if the gameplay allows you to try stuff like that with some chance of success.

As I recall, Totomi, Aki and Tami Kochi (made by TosaInu) were the most popular maps at first. The original map called Tosa and many other hilly maps, such as Yamaga, were used in big team games by clans who knew how to attack. Later Obake made a big map for STW/MI called Rivercrossing that I really liked and his Horselands was very popular. It's unfortunate that STW/MI v1.02 made it more difficult to attack hilly maps, and Ironing Board became the most popular map.

Playing with players who have a fresh attitude/approach to maps can make a big difference in the quality of the battles.

And this brings me to my favorite issue: "balance". Imbalance limits your strategic and tactical choices. The greater the imbalance the more limited the choice. I'll give an example of temporal imbalance that limits tactical choices.

In original STW, two YS (2 combat points each with no upgrades each cost 200 koku) can defeat one WM (7 combat points with no upgrades cost 500 koku). They can't win by going straight at the WM, but they can win if one YS in hold formation engages the WM while the other YS flanks and attacks the WM from behind. In an STW v1.12 multiplayer test, the two YS starting out side by side beat the WM in about 20 seconds. The blocking YS had 38 men left, and the flanking YS had 49 men left. The WM routed at 24 men. The tactic depends upon the blocking YS being able to hold long enough for the flanking YS to engage the WM from behind. An unupgraded YS with 38 men left is very close to routing. Once it drops below 30 men it will be hit with a -8 morale penalty in addition to the morale penalty it's suffering for the ratio of casualties in each combat cycle.

I don't remember the results for this same test in STW/MI v1.02, but I know infantry movement speed was lowered by about 15%. If the blocking YS routs before the flanking YS defeats the WM, this hammer and anvil tactic no longer works. It would be a lost tactic for that particular unit combination. I know that, in general, hammer and anvil tactics with infantry do not work as well in STW/MI v1.02 as they did in STW v1.12. It still works with cavalry because the cavalry wasn't slowed down.

[Shaka_Khan]

... It's unfortunate that STW/MI v1.02 made it more difficult to attack hilly maps, and Ironing Board became the most popular map.

And this brings me to my favorite issue: "balance". Imbalance limits your strategic and tactical choices. The greater the imbalance the more limited the choice...

...I don't remember the results for this same test in STW/MI v1.02, but I know infantry movement speed was lowered by about 15%. If the blocking YS routs before the flanking YS defeats the WM, this hammer and anvil tactic no longer works. It would be a lost tactic for that particular unit combination. I know that, in general, hammer and anvil tactics with infantry do not work as well in STW/MI v1.02 as they did in STW v1.12. It still works with cavalry because the cavalry wasn't slowed down.

It's nearly impossible to attack up the hill if we can't flank. There would be no point in attacking. I managed to lure some people away from the hill, but this rarely works.

[Puzz3D]

It's nearly impossible to attack up the hill if we can't flank. There would be no point in attacking. I managed to lure some people away from the hill, but this rarely works.

The attacker could win on Aki in 1v1 in STW v1.12, and the defender didn't have to be a beginner for that to happen. Remember that guns didn't fire in the rain. Attackers would usually take archers instead of guns because archers can shoot up whereas guns cannot. If it didn't rain, archers had a good chance of significantly weakening the guns before the assault, and, if it did rain, archers could shoot the defender's melee troops virtually forcing him to come down off the hill unless the hill was tree covered which it is not on Aki. If the defender took archers, the attacker could effectively neutralize them as well with his own archers. Granted that, if the two players were of equal skill, the defender would win, but the attacker didn't have to be very much better than the defender to win.

Yes it was a mistake that muskets didn't fire in rain, but it actually helped the gameplay because it made it very risky to take a lot of muskets. Except for Krast, I never saw players using more than 4 muskets. This was just arrived at through the experience gained by playing. Many players didn't use any guns at all. You had to be really good with them to make them worthwhile. I don't think many people who didn't play STW v1.12 realize how interesting it was since there were no unit limits and you saw various kinds of unbalanced armies all of which had counterarmies. The most difficult thing to handle was the monk rush with 16 monks and I did see quite a bit of that, but you could stop it if you were good. I clearly remember a 3v3 where Takshida and I stopped an attack by 32 monks and no-dachis, and we had balanced armies. The two guys with the 32 sword units were experts using that kind of army, so it wasn't a case of vets beating beginners and the terrain was flat. We didn't have any guns. We had some archers which were actually better against monks than were guns. It was a 3v3, and the two 3rd guys fought alone off in another part of the map and neutralized each other.

[Muneyoshi]

Hi Cha, Ive downloaded your new map and look forward to trying it out. I made a map quite some time ago,its in the last map pack in fact.
YG_Yagyu Homelands is the name, I put lots of work into making it as fair as possible and followed all the guidelines that Tosa and the rest of the talented modders and map makers gave and it turned out pretty good.Paolino made some good ones too which are also in the map pack, as you will by now know its quite a task putting a good custom map together but very rewarding indeed!



ShinGaiJin

Hah, I actually remember the day you posted it for the first time, quality stuff. Such a long time ago now....

[Drisos]

Hi Muneyoshi.. good to see you here.

[Shin-GaiJin]

Hi Muney, you still checking the boards eh! See you on msn soon, take care matey

[Muneyoshi]

I am always here in some sort of fashion, I'm just not much of a poster 5 years and I'm not even at 800 posts.

[Trajanus]

Hey Tyson! didn't know you made it across to this side of the totalwar community aswell!

[Drisos]

lol

all those totalrome guys have the same avatar.. :P !!

[Cha]

Let's play with new maps.

[Drisos]

Hi Cha ... Good to see you still here too..

[Cha]

Hi Drisos.
I'll visit the server if anyone is up for games. If no one shows up, then I'll be back later.

edit - Hmm...I can't get into the server.

Here are my settings. Is anything wrong?:

ChatserverIPAddress = shogun-fakeserver.dnsdojo.org
ChatserverPort = 8793
NewsserverIPAddress = daphne.eagames.co.uk
NewsserverPort = 8797
ShogunTotalWarWebsite = www.totalwar.com

[Trajanus]

I am setup like you also Cha. I am having problems connecting to the server also.

[Drisos]

I too, cannot connect. The server must be down.

These days I cannot login - but it is because I get stuck at 'logging on ...'Which means something is blocked me from getting in. Right now, I don't get past 'connecting ...' which means the server is down (I checked my config - it's ok, and so are yours)