Hearts of Iron II Doomsday

[SwordsMaster]

That is because probably when you declared war on Venezuela, there was small print in the box saying somehing like: "The following nations are guaranteeing Venezuela's intependence and will fight alongside them in the war" or somethjing similar. Thats why, if you are planning to attack someone who's independence is being guaranteed by someone else, you should have very good relations and possibly a non aggressions pact with that someone else first.

[screwtype]

Hmmm, I didn't notice any such warning when I declared war Swordsmaster. But I might have missed it I guess.

Fortunately I did save the game just before declaring war on Ven., so I went back and tried declaring war on Uruguay instead. Sure enough, the US invaded again, and again I didn't get told either that the US had declared war or that it had invaded. But I did notice this time that when I went back into the diplomacy screen, it at least informed me there I was at war with both Uruguay and the US.

I guess what I'll have to do is either wait until the US is at war with Japan and then start invading my neighbours, or else build up my army to be bigger. I thought 17 divisions was pretty cool but the US has 130!

My biggest problem now though is trying to figure out how to trade goods. I've figured out most of the game for myself by now except trade, and wouldn't you know it, this is the one tutorial that invariably crashes, and right when it's telling me the bit I want to know.

Basically it tells you how to offer a deal on the world market and then crashes. I've tried offering a deal for essential goodies, basically 100 rubber for 100 coal, but when I go into the daily trade summary screen, it says I'm selling the 100 coal but only getting 12 coal in return! No wonder my economy's going down the tube. I don't suppose you could explain what I'm supposed to do after hitting the "offer deal" button?

[discovery1]

Look down in the message box. There probably was an alert, it just didn't come up in a message box. The default message box settings are not so good in default HoI. Did you patch your game? HoI2 also tells you if someone dows you in a message box by default.

[screwtype]

Thanks GL, I found a good way to get rid of messages you don't want is to right click on them, which brings up another box where you can set the priority.

It doesn't solve the problem of having war declared on you without warning though, but I've found that as a South American country basically all I need to do is join the allies once war is declared and then the US will leave me alone even if she is still isolationist.

One of the niggling little problems I have now is with allies trying to send me expeditionary corps every few days. I'm getting very sick of having to click "go to", "okay" and then "return to sender" every time.

Basically ATM I feel the game is kind of okay but there are so many things it could do that would make it better. Why the heck doesn't the game tell you how many units a province can support before you send them in? Why do you have to reinforce EVERY division individually instead of as a stack or globally? Why doesn't it tell you somewhere when you're building something how many resources and so on it's going to cost? Why doesn't the game update things without running time for a few days? Why is it so hard to find out how many resources you're consuming/about to consume (yes I know about the ledger page, but it's far from satisfactory, since it changes with numerous actions you make). Why is there no "undo" for some features when you make a mistake?

All in all, this a game that ought to be good but kind of isn't, because of all the omissions. I'm tempted to upgrade to HOI 2 and probably will, but something tells me they won't have fixed many of my central complaints in that either...

Oh and BTW, what the heck do you have an "upgrade unit" button for when all your units appear to upgrade automatically?

[AntiochusIII]

One of the niggling little problems I have now is with allies trying to send me expeditionary corps every few days. I'm getting very sick of having to click "go to", "okay" and then "return to sender" every time.

HOI2 Doomsday still have that problem. But it is minor detail for me. At least, I take it as a sign of goodwill...

Basically ATM I feel the game is kind of okay but there are so many things it could do that would make it better. Why the heck doesn't the game tell you how many units a province can support before you send them in? Why do you have to reinforce EVERY division individually instead of as a stack or globally? Why doesn't it tell you somewhere when you're building something how many resources and so on it's going to cost? Why doesn't the game update things without running time for a few days? Why is it so hard to find out how many resources you're consuming/about to consume (yes I know about the ledger page, but it's far from satisfactory, since it changes with numerous actions you make). Why is there no "undo" for some features when you make a mistake?

I don't understand some of the problems here because I never played HOI, but some would seem to be solved by HOI2, at least at the Doomsday level, and therefore no longer be an issue. Reinforcements automatically work now, taking your IC, unless you specifically choose to deny them to some of your divisions. Though the brigade-thing is still individual (if that is what you mean by reinforcing, i.e. adding stuff to your divisions). I don't think there's a unit limit on a province, though too much and it would (quite logically) be detrimental instead. See the London with 70 Divisions (Holy!) post above. Keeping tract of resources is a little hard, but I must say, despite my inexperience, that the logic is easy to grasp now. Sometimes when things seem to "not working properly" I'd find out that it's just a problem in my industrial capacity/allocation; and, if that would comfort you (probably not), they put warnings on every kind of diplomatic/espionage actions you are about to take along the lines of "all effects are immediate and cannot be undone", thus implicitly say "be careful with that dow button!"

[screwtype]

HOI2 Doomsday still have that problem. But it is minor detail for me. At least, I take it as a sign of goodwill...

I knew it. People who can't design a UI generally don't know how to fix one either in my experience. But I am still staggered that this problem exists after numerous patches and three major releases!

Reinforcements automatically work now, taking your IC, unless you specifically choose to deny them to some of your divisions.

Well that's at least one thing I won't have to worry about if I upgrade the game then.

I don't think there's a unit limit on a province, though too much and it would (quite logically) be detrimental instead.

There isn't strictly speaking a "unit limit" in HOI 1 either, but what I was referring to is the fact that your units start to perish if you leave them in a province with insufficient infrastructure! I mean, why not simply have a number in each province you can look at - why not, for example, have the number of units supportable displayed instead of the esoteric number for infrastructure they have now? I mean, how do I know how many divisions a province with an infrastructure of "19" or "34" can hold? But I suppose it would be too easy to do it that way, wouldn't it?

Keeping tract of resources is a little hard

Yes, it is hard, but the point is it doesn't need to be hard. The numbers could be displayed any number of ways. But apparently the clowns who designed these games think it's fun to spend half your time doing mental arithmetic instead of playing the game.

Sometimes when things seem to "not working properly" I'd find out that it's just a problem in my industrial capacity/allocation

Well, yeah. But you wouldn't experience these problems at all if the game was properly designed. In my current game as Argentina, I had to completely stop all research for years on end, because I ran out of certain types of resources. With a more accessible interface, I might have been able to manage things a bit better. I could certainly have done it with far less trouble. Having to tweak around the resource sliders every few turns gets a bit old after a while, especially when they're so tricky to position in the first place.

[SwordsMaster]

Well, yes, it does require micromanagement, but this is not a game like Civilisation 4. It requires micromanagement. You should still try out HOI2. The GUI is much improved, and many things are a lot clearer (the resource increase-decrease thing for example).

[GoreBag]

Indeed. Many of screwtypes' complaints are totally alien to me, since I've never played HoI. I can only assume that they fixed in the transition to the sequel. HoI2, also, has a tutorial mode ( ) to clear up any misunderstandings.

[lancelot]

Oh and BTW, what the heck do you have an "upgrade unit" button for when all your units appear to upgrade automatically?

Its actually a do not upgarde button IIRC...so you can refuse to upgarde units if you need the resources elsewhere.

[screwtype]

Its actually a do not upgarde button IIRC...so you can refuse to upgarde units if you need the resources elsewhere.

That must be in HOI 2. I'm sure it's an upgrade button (that doesn't work) in HOI 1!

[discovery1]

The upgrade in HOI 1 send them back into the build queue. It will take a while for them to upgrade, and while they do you can't use them. And Units loose strength in provs with infra thats too low, I forgot the limit. 40? that doesn't happen in HoI2.

[screwtype]

Yeah I think the limit is 40. But sometimes I can't even leave a single unit in a province because it doesn't have the infrastructure - even at 34 or so.

Yes, when you click on the "Upgrade" button the unit is sent back into the build queue. But here's the weird thing. When it comes back, it still has the exact same stats as when you put in it. I find that just researching new techs, my units seem to get upgraded automatically. So the upgrade function is completely redundant.

Maybe Paradox decided to automate the feature in a patch, but didn't bother to deactivate the button.

BTW I went down to buy HOI 2 today, I rang my local EB store and they told me it was on sale in a two games for $50 deal. In fact I rang two EB stores and they told me the same thing. I didn't really want to buy it as a 2 for $50 deal but then I figured if I bought it direct from Paradox it wouldn't cost much less and I'd have to wait a week to get it.

So I went down to the EB store and rummaged through the 2 for $50 bin for fifteen minutes until I was satisfied the game wasn't there. So then I went over to the normal sales display and there it was, selling as a standalone title for $70

So I didn't buy it. But since I didn't want to leave empty handed, I ended up buying two games from the 2 for $50 bin anyhow, they were HOMM3 and Vampire Masquerades. I've heard good things about both games on this forum. But I loaded up HOMM3 and it looks really dated. Maybe Masquerades will be better.

Now I'll probably have to go down to the other EB store tomorrow and see if I can pick up HOI2 in the 2 for $50 deal there. The dang game is going to end up costing me $100, minimum.

[discovery1]

Dude, I paide 55 for it the week it was released, 25 of which was shipping was a Saturday arrival. You're getting ripped off. Just order direct from paradox.

You can buy the doomsday standalone expansion(it also includes the original campaign) for 20 bucks. HoI2 is 30 USD.

http://www.paradoxshop.com/

[SwordsMaster]

True, 30 is the most you should ever pay for pretty much any Paradox game.

[AntiochusIII]

[quote is too long to repeat]

!!!

Screwtype, I got Doomsday for 20$USD at Fry's here in Vegas, just after it's out. And a week after they have a promotion reduce to 15$.

A freakin' bargain! AND it's stand-alone! I'm shocked and awed and overjoyed and right now my grades are spiralling downward and the lack of sleep is killing me for weeks.

Heck, the best first Paradox game ever.

[Samurai Waki]

I bought it for 19.99USD at Hastings, standalone package. Now I'm just really waiting for the 1.2 update and when Core Switches over.

[screwtype]

My prices were in Aussie dollars :) All the same, AU$70 is US$50, which is still far too much for the game IMO. Especially when I can get it direct from Paradox itself, including P&P from the US, for (from memory) US$28.

In fact, I think that's what I'll do, even though I'll have to wait a couple of weeks for delivery.

The one thing I can't work out though, is that although the DD FAQ says DD contains essentially the entire original game ie 36 to 47, they are selling DD for 19.99 and HOI 2 for 29.99! And even more confusing, they are selling a "two in one" package, where you get both HOI 2 and DD, for 39.99.

Now if DD is a standalone title that contains virtually the whole of HOI 2 already, why the heck is it *cheaper* than HOI 2 alone? I can't figure it out. And this makes me nervous about ordering it.

[discovery1]

Lower developement and production costs? And a patch ruined the xp system, but it's a patch.

[GoreBag]

Let them figure out that it's not just an expansion. If you're interested in getting Doomdsay, I'm fairly certain that there's a version of it available for electronic payment and download.

[discovery1]

There is. It's what I bought, rather then wait for it to come to EB or in the mail.

[screwtype]

I bought HOI 2

I checked what it was going to cost me to order DD direct from Paradox, and in total it was going to cost $46. Since that was almost as much as my local store's 2 games for fifty bucks offer, I figured I was better off getting two games for 50 than one for 46.

The second game I bought along with HOI 2 was a Paradox compilation. So now I have HOI 2, EU II, Victoria, Two Thrones and Crown of the North, all for $50

[SwordsMaster]

Nice one, thats 10 $ each. And Vicky is prolly worth 50$ just on its own.

[screwtype]

Nice one, thats 10 $ each. And Vicky is prolly worth 50$ just on its own.

Yeah, I could hardly believe that myself. I hope this is not some really early version of Vicky you can't upgrade or something, like HOI 1. It was actually bundled with HOI 1, but I haven't heard about a Vicky version 2.

Does HOI 2 have a bug? I tried to play Italy, it's got 64 IC's. I'm not building anything and the game says I have 64 IC's free, which is how it should be, but when I go to the statistics sheet, it says I'm using 128 energy, 64 metal and 32 raw materials, as if I'm already using my production capacity to the max! I've got a daily deficit of 37 energy and 18 metal, and I'm not even building anything yet!

Have I missed something, or is this a bug?

[AggonyDuck]

I think it's WAD, because noone ever thought that someone wouldn't use his production capabilities to their fullest.

[screwtype]

WAD, what's that?

Actually, I am already building a couple of ships, the campaign starts with those in the building queue. But they are only costing 6 IC's. But the game still says I have all my IC's free, but I'm using raw materials as if I'm using production capacity to the max!

This has surely got to be a major bug. Has anyone else heard of it?

[discovery1]

No. that's how it works.

wad = working as designed.

Its a bad idea to let ic idle, since it still uses up your resources. If anything, dump it in supplies or consumer goods. Remeber your economy never shuts down, even if you want it to.

[screwtype]

Oh great, so that means I'm stuck with these resource deficits and can only try and meet the problem by trading?

Heck, I'm sure the game wasn't working like this before. It was only counting the IC's I was using for production. I mean, it's got to work that way. If it didn't, why have an "available IC's" figure at all?

[SwordsMaster]

Oh great, so that means I'm stuck with these resource deficits and can only try and meet the problem by trading?

Heck, I'm sure the game wasn't working like this before. It was only counting the IC's I was using for production. I mean, it's got to work that way. If it didn't, why have an "available IC's" figure at all?

You can try conquering some provinces that produce those resources you want.

[discovery1]

Oh great, so that means I'm stuck with these resource deficits and can only try and meet the problem by trading?

Italy probably didn't have great resources in reality. Play as the USA if you don't want to worry about needing to trade.

Heck, I'm sure the game wasn't working like this before. It was only counting the IC's I was using for production. I mean, it's got to work that way. If it didn't, why have an "available IC's" figure at all?

Available ICs means the number of ICs you have enough resources to actually run. The game assumes you would want to maximize output, which you should if you want to wage war. Note that it goes full steam ahead until your resource stockpiles are empty.

About HoI 1, after loading up the toll tip says that I had enough resources to run n out of n. Not that that says anything.

[screwtype]

Oh well, people seem to think this is WAD! I guess I'll have to take your word for it.

Maybe I'm confused because I was playing HOI 1 before, and I think in that game you can cut your resource use by putting it into supplies. But regardless this strikes me as a pretty silly mechanic. You should be able to slow down production if you're outstripping your supplies. What this mechanic means is you have no choice, you have to keep going until that scarce resource hits zero, causing your entire production to go haywire.

It also means you have to think twice before increasing your production capacity, because once it's there it has to be fed regardless.

Why didn't they include an "idle production" slider, so you could reduce production to keep everything at sustainable levels?

Ugh, I don't like this game mechanic, at all.