Hearts of Iron II Doomsday

[discovery1]

Factories are still running if they are making supplies like ammo and boots instead of equipment for a new division or cruiser.....

Why would you want to reduce your economic strength? In either case the end result would be you being weaker. And whats the point of that in a game based around one of the larger conflicts of the 20th century.

And yes it makes sense that your production goes haywire. The reason the Japanese attacked was that they were running out of resources.

Think of it this way: if you idled them then the workers wander off, the factories would fall into disrepair and those said workers would be unemployed thus increasing dissent. You'd have to start over from scratch(ie rebuild your IC).

Also, its REALLY easy to build up a massive prewar stockpile of resources from trade, so large that you can last the entire war on it.

[GoreBag]

You can save resources by setting up unused IC...minor powers (read: me) do it all the time because of their limited economies. Supplies don't count, though; what you need to do is put more IC into production, upgrades or reinforcements than you really need. Also, what version of the game are you using?

[discovery1]

Wow. I had no idea idleing IC left it used. See, even a long time veteren doesn't know everything.

Still seems like a bad idea to idle IC during times of peace anyway. Then you don't need to worry about blockaids stopping trades, thus you can run your economy as fast as it can go, thus you can produce as much as possible. And since you are Italy you will be facing the might of the British in Afirca, probably, including most of their ground I think.

[screwtype]

Why would you want to reduce your economic strength? In either case the end result would be you being weaker. And whats the point of that in a game based around one of the larger conflicts of the 20th century.

And yes it makes sense that your production goes haywire. The reason the Japanese attacked was that they were running out of resources.

The problem is that if you wait for the resources to run out, you lose control of the economy. And you have to keep going back to readjust sliders because the resources keep arriving in fits and starts. It just becomes a micromanagement nightmare. At least, that's how I found it in HOI 1.

Think of it this way: if you idled them then the workers wander off, the factories would fall into disrepair and those said workers would be unemployed thus increasing dissent. You'd have to start over from scratch(ie rebuild your IC).

Not at all. You don't completely shut down a factory, you just run it at 80% capacity instead. Real businesses do this sort of thing all the time. They don't wait until their cash flow hits zero and then start retrenching people! They plan ahead.

There should be an idle capacity slider. That way YOU would be in total control of where your available resources go and what gets built, instead of having to fiddle with the sliders all the time.

Also, its REALLY easy to build up a massive prewar stockpile of resources from trade, so large that you can last the entire war on it.

Hmm, not sure about that. Maybe it depends on what country you play

Anyhow, I stlll think this looks like a promising game. I mean, this is a real wargame, not some cheesy plaything for the kiddiebrats. I haven't played a real wargame for ages. I just hope the somewhat clunky UI doesn't end up spoiling the fun too much.

[GoreBag]

Yeah, generally speaking, you'll want to trade to keep your deficits up, but sometimes, everything is just in use in every other country, or you can get no real decent trade deal. A good idea, though, is to trade small amounts of supplies for larger amounts of IC resources. If you could get 2 energy for .3 supplies, you're definitely ahead of the game.

[screwtype]

You can save resources by setting up unused IC...minor powers (read: me) do it all the time because of their limited economies. Supplies don't count, though; what you need to do is put more IC into production, upgrades or reinforcements than you really need. Also, what version of the game are you using?

Hmm, you seem to be saying something different to the other guys. This is all starting to get a bit confusing.

What you're saying is how I thought HOI 1 was playing. I mean, I thought I found some slider that I could put excess production into that didn't use resources. But the other guys seem to be saying no, you can't do that. And they appear to be right, because when I was tweaking the sliders around in HOI 2 it didn't seem to be affecting the number of resources I was using.

BTW, I'm using version 1.10OOCO, as far as I can tell...

[discovery1]

Dump everything into reinforcements, then watch, just to be sure.


Tip about trading: Perferably only trade with countries you are already on good terms with, like Germany. They will give you better deals.

[GoreBag]

PATCH!

The unpatched version definitely doesn't work as well. You're right, though; you should be able to save resources by 'wasting' IC. The AI does it, I've done it, it's a wonderful thing.

Also, are you fiddling around with the sliders before the first day ends, or any other day, for that matter? Resource status is updated every day at 0:00.

[Boohugh]

Trading supplies for the raw materials is definitely the way to go in my opinion. Crank up your supply slider to use all your currently unused IC capacity and trade it for metal, oil, energy, etc. Supplies are considered very valuable and so you can get some very good deals when trading with other countries. With luck, you'll have a large supply stockpile to fight with when war breaks out too, meaning you can concentrate your IC on more important areas such as reinforcements when the time comes.

[screwtype]

Okay, looks like Gorebag was right, you can indeed idle production capacity just by putting the excess into the production slider. Using that method I've just been able to reduce my IC usage by more than two thirds.

I was pretty sure you could do it because I was doing it in HOI 1, but I guess I forgot what method I'd been using.

The other thing that I think confused me is Italy was converting 70 energy to oil at the start of the game for some reason, I don't really understand why, or why it's stopped converting now, but I'm glad it has because it was leaving me with an energy deficit in excess of 70 a day!

Anyhow, all seems to be well now, I just need to tweak my IC usage up to the appropriate level. Thanks everyone for your help

Oh and thanks LordHugh for the tip about supplies, I assumed they'd be pretty worthless to trade but it's good to hear they are not. Although I've also found money to be a pretty decent trade, which you can make from producing an excess of consumer goodies, but I haven't figured out which is the better trade commodity yet.

[screwtype]

Oh, pooh, the 1.3 patch has robbed Italy of a research slot

Oh well, never mind, you win some you lose some

[ShadesPanther]

Energy is converted to oil when you do not have enough oil as a stockpile. This can cause your industry to totally collapse as all your energy is used up. You can make the ratio better by researching in the industrial research part of it

[screwtype]

Energy is converted to oil when you do not have enough oil as a stockpile. This can cause your industry to totally collapse as all your energy is used up. You can make the ratio better by researching in the industrial research part of it

Is that what it is? The blasted game is converting 30 to 40 of my energy every day to make a thimbleful of oil, and I don't seem to be able to stop it

Not only that, but it looks like I spoke too soon on the idle IC question. The game is still using resources at maximum capacity, regardless of how little I'm actually building. So obviously the method I thought was working, isn't.

Hmm, more study required...

[AntiochusIII]

Erm, can IC be idle? At all?

I thought the best (or worst, actually) you can do is to waste it on an idle area (production/upgrade/reinforcements beyond your true need) and still "pay" for it. I always put my excess on money (consumer) and supply. If I have any, that is. Money and supply helps a lot because you'll at least be getting something back which can be used, especially for trading to make up for resource deficits (pumping ICs up too much? Just put all the excess in supply and make a swaggering effort to create trade deals everywhere with your supply for their resources). Not to mention the fact that putting ICs in consumer goods reduce dissent. The more the better.

The value of trade goods, by the way, can be edited in the db folder. It's only affecting diplomatic deals, though.

By the way, I personally think Italy sucks big time for some reason. They lack major resources majorly. You have to strike out on your own and be quick about it.

Of course, fortunately Italy is one of the major-minor powers with the ability, tech teams, and military to fight on your own initiative at your own will and can expect to survive, as well as not being forced by events to engage in the mighty Great War if you really don't want to. Well, you ARE expected to strike out quickly if you take the role of Il Duce, anyway.

Again, this game is really amazing. In fact, some people are more amazing at this game than others... That Hungarian AAR over at Paradox is wicked. Oh how the CESA rises!

[AggonyDuck]

Is that what it is? The blasted game is converting 30 to 40 of my energy every day to make a thimbleful of oil, and I don't seem to be able to stop it

Not only that, but it looks like I spoke too soon on the idle IC question. The game is still using resources at maximum capacity, regardless of how little I'm actually building. So obviously the method I thought was working, isn't.

Hmm, more study required...

It will automatically stop the conversion when you have less than a 3:1 ration in energy to oil. So oil conversion won't make you run out of energy, but it does make stockpiling it a rather horrible process. Also researching the conversion techs does help in making the process a lot more economical when it comes to energy.

[screwtype]

Erm, can IC be idle? At all?

Don't know. Still haven't figured it out

I thought the best (or worst, actually) you can do is to waste it on an idle area (production/upgrade/reinforcements beyond your true need) and still "pay" for it. I always put my excess on money (consumer) and supply. If I have any, that is. Money and supply helps a lot because you'll at least be getting something back which can be used, especially for trading to make up for resource deficits (pumping ICs up too much? Just put all the excess in supply and make a swaggering effort to create trade deals everywhere with your supply for their resources). Not to mention the fact that putting ICs in consumer goods reduce dissent. The more the better.

I made some great deals with Germany. 10 supply for 100 energy! That solved my energy problems real quick.

Now though I'm trying to build up my supply a bit, just in case I need them for war. I'm just coming to the end of '39 and reinforcing the Near East in case Britain tries to grab territory. And if she doesn't, I'll probably try and grab some of hers

I personally think Italy sucks big time for some reason. They lack major resources majorly. You have to strike out on your own and be quick about it.

I don't know, compared to the powers I've been playing up to now, Italy is a powerhouse!

I was playing Brazil and Argentina before and they've got so few IC's you can hardly do a thing.

Of course, fortunately Italy is one of the major-minor powers with the ability, tech teams, and military to fight on your own initiative at your own will and can expect to survive, as well as not being forced by events to engage in the mighty Great War if you really don't want to. Well, you ARE expected to strike out quickly if you take the role of Il Duce, anyway.

Yeah, I haven't figured out what strategy to adopt with Italy yet. I've taken Ethiopia and Albania already, but now I'm waiting for war to break out between the major powers so I can hopefully grab some more goodies while they're preoccupied with each other.

The big decision is whether to go into an alliance with a major faction or not. And if so, which faction?

I'll probably end up just doing the historical thing and making an alliance with Germany, but I don't know if it's the right strategy. What I'd really like to do is conquer Yugoslavia, but I'm not sure how to achieve that. If I ally with Germany, she might invade Yugoslavia when I declare war, which is not what I want at all!

Again, this game is really amazing. In fact, some people are more amazing at this game than others... That Hungarian AAR over at Paradox is wicked. Oh how the CESA rises!

ATM I'm finding it amazingly long, mostly I wish there was a way to speed up the game so you could go straight from one interesting event to another, having to go through the whole lot hour by hour gets a bit old after a while...

[SwordsMaster]

The trick with Italy is to be opportunistic. I.e. grab Ethiopia (its practically free anyway), grab Albania (ditto) and then ally with Bulgaria (usually you have a pretty god relationship with them) and try grabbing Greece as quickly as you can. You can't sustain long wars because you do not have a big surpulus of supplies at this early stage.

After you get a peace deal out of Greece or annex them (whatever the circumstances dictate), watch the Spanish civil war. Do NOT send reinforcements to any of the sides and when one of the sides controls more than 60 % of the territory, attack them. Usually your navy pwns theirs (even though it's still crap compared to France or UK) and so you have a clear landing pad. Grab as many ICs as possible, and naval bases and airfields (if you are a tac bomber maniac such as myself) and then just hold them until the other Spain finishes the job. Then I usually rebuild my economy and reinforce for 6-7 months, and then hit Portugal. You can take out most of their european posessions in no time and then they will offer you some sort of deal that will include some African posessions too.

By 1939 or so you can hit the Spain you "supported" (do not ever ally with them as if you do, they will take control of the territories you have claimed from the other Spain) which should be fairly crippled after you took a good few ICs from them.

After that your economy should be a good bit stronger and you have planty of opportunities.

What I like to do is ally with Germany after 41, give up Ethiopia and take out the Suez channel (which you will be fighting for for the rest of the war), and Gibraltar. That keeps the brits out of the mediterranean, and your crappy navy can take care of the rest of the navies in th area. Then You can hit the Middle East, and after that is secured, hit Vichy France. With German help, Vichy France should be a walk in Europe, fairly easy in N. Africa, and forget about the rest of the world. There is not point getting your marines to Saigon for a dubious fight for the colonies, that in all likelihood you want be able to hold...

That is my strategy. A few unexpected events happened though, such as Yugoslavia attacking me during my war in Greece, or Turkey attacking me while most of my forces were tied down in Iraq with the brits. But it is a very interesting game.

[discovery1]

If you are allied to germany when they invade yugoslavia then when they annex then you get the territory you have claims on, more if you occupy it.

[ShadesPanther]

The tip for Italy is to take the two northern Provinces connected to Germany and then advance down. Also try to get alot more quickly if you have balkan allies.

[GoreBag]

ATM I'm finding it amazingly long, mostly I wish there was a way to speed up the game so you could go straight from one interesting event to another, having to go through the whole lot hour by hour gets a bit old after a while...

You do know how to speed up the game, though, right?

[screwtype]

Hmm, some good tips there guys. It's too late for me to do the Spain thing because the civil war is already come and gone, but the others sound doable.

I want Yugoslavia because I figure I'll get all its IC's, it seems in this game if you have to transport stuff overseas in wartime it never turns up. Or is that only your trade deals? There's a lot I haven't figured out in this game yet. There's no shortage of stuff to learn in a game like this, LOL.

[screwtype]

You do know how to speed up the game, though, right?

I only know the Ctrl-+ key combo, but even at "extremely fast" it still runs a lot slower than I would like it to. Especially in the pre-war years when there is often nothing to do but wait for that next technology or for that piece of infrastructure to be built.

[AntiochusIII]

I want Yugoslavia because I figure I'll get all its IC's, it seems in this game if you have to transport stuff overseas in wartime it never turns up. Or is that only your trade deals? There's a lot I haven't figured out in this game yet. There's no shortage of stuff to learn in a game like this, LOL.

Yugoslavia is often getting screwed in just about every game you play in their vicinity, except, of course, with you as Yugoslavia!

They're surrounded and don't have the German, or Allied blessing, for that matter. And their lands are large...and quite a good addition to any of the nations around the place, Italy included. Not to mention the fact that you can always liberate smaller nations out of their territory if you don't need them and need someone to free up the TC's used in occupying territories

But I would NOT strike them before all the "guarantee independence" (if any) and non-aggression pacts expire, about 40' if I can remember correctly. Doing so before that might bring on you the wrath of the major powers. They have a set of ties at the start of the game...

And quite frankly I agree that, as an RTS-RTW player, the game is bloody slow occasionally. It doesn't matter though once you achieve something amazing or succeed in a grand encirclement. Or beat up the Bigs on your own. Or, as the best experiences so far in this game, carve your own alliance that becomes just as powerful as the game's prime Three. The dry, old graphic-plain map was more beautiful than any graphic-filled game would ever be once I look over Europe and realize that all of them are either liberated by me or under my direct leadership.

I always loved to create an Italian-led alliance when I play them. Then again, I'm on a normal difficulty with the default aggression.

[discovery1]

I suggest you take all of greece before you take yugo. I know the ai does it all time. There are beaches in the Pelopenese.

I find it pretty fast, and I would suggest normal/above normal for war time. Don't forget to change to the slower times.

[screwtype]

Okay, I took Spain but the partisans are eating me alive! I'm losing 86 TC to partisan activity according to the tooltip.

What the heck do you do about partisans? I know you can assign divisions to anti-partisan activity but they're not that effective, and it's going to end up costing a heck of a lot of troops just to keep the natives down!

What do I do - build heaps of garrison divisions? Seems like an awful waste of resources, but these partisans are proving to be quite a nuisance.

BTW, why aren't I getting the IC I've captured from other nations? Am I supposed to assign convoys to ship it home or something?

[[DnC]]

Use garrisons with police brigades attached to them and assign them on anti-partisan duty. Spread them all over spain (one per province and not neccesarily every province) and when the revolt-chance starts to drop low enough you can assign some garrisons to other, newly conquered places.

About the IC, you will only be able to use a portion of enemy IC. I don't know how much however. There are ministers (diplomacy menu) that raise how much enemy IC you can use by the way.

[screwtype]

So, I really do have to churn out a whole bunch of garrison divs, huh?

There are no shortcuts in this blasted game, are there? LOL.

I just spent the last three years researching the '39 infantry division at agonizingly slow speed. Finally got there in April '38. I figured if I researched it early I could go straight from an 18 pattern div to a 39, thus saving me a whole heap of IC's on the 36 upgrade.

Nothing doing, the baskets make you upgrade to a 36 before you can upgrade to a 39. What a scam. All that time wasted, the cheats!

[GoreBag]

Garrisons are indeed the way to go. I'm not sure if I should ruin the surprise surrounding their use, though. In any case, building MP brigades won't help so much on their own, either, unless you have something else in your homeland sitting around, waiting to be sent to Spain. To fight partisans without garrisons, you'll want to pay attention to your Authoritarian and Open vs Closed Society sliders.

On the issue of enemy IC's: You only get access to a fraction of your non-national factories. This can be modified by your diplomacy window, particularly your security minister. Ministers to consider are either the [+5% Foreign manpower, +5% Foreign IC use] or the [+10% Foreign IC use, +10% Consumer Goods Need]. The first is all-around better, obviously, since there are no real drawbacks, but the second may be more useful if you hold a considerable amount of foreign territory.

You do have a lot of questions, but are you enjoying the game?

[screwtype]

You do have a lot of questions, but are you enjoying the game?

I'm still playing it, so I guess I must be

I don't know how long I'll stick with it though. There are a lot of good ideas in the game, and there must have been a huge amount of research go into it, but the UI really stinks.

A few examples:

(a) I still haven't figured out a quick way to divide up armies in the same province, because the only obvious way is to merge everything and then de-merge into all the separate units you want. And I haven't found any way of merging air units except by flying them to a province empty of ground units. Perhaps another careful reading of the manual will reveal a method a bit less clunky.

(b) The naval system is really confusing. Missions are assigned to sea zones but the names on the map don't appear to correspond to the sea zones in the list. I find I just have to click on one of the names and hope for the best. It's pretty annoying.

(c) Assigning and re-assigning commanders to units is a pain. Does the list of alternative commanders you get include commanders already assigned to units? I can't tell. But either way, it's a problem, because if they're not, it means you're not looking at all your available commanders, and if they are, there's nothing there to tell you they are already assigned, at least not that I can see.

I'd swear the list of available commanders is constantly changing too. Does the game reassign divisional commanders back to the force pool when you merge into a larger unit? Maybe that's what's going on.

(d) I've been finding combat to be quite troublesome. Especially selecting the start time for an attack. I think maybe I've been confused because in HOI 2 combat seems to occur from the moment you start moving toward the province, whereas in HOI 1 it only occurs when you arrive in the province. But what the "sychronize attack" button does I have no idea, it might be hidden in the manual somewhere but it's not obvious in the game.

I guess I'll probably figure out most of these issues, but the point is their implementation is anything but user friendly. It's a pity, because for some reason lousy UI's seem to be the usual story with computer wargames, which IMO is a big reason why they don't sell better.

Really though, I just haven't had enough experience with the game to know whether it's going to become a favourite or not. There's a lot I like about it, but then again I have little patience with games that have a crap UI. Things that ought to take seconds in this game take minutes. I'm hoping that with more practice and knowledge I'll be able to do things quicker, if not the clunky UI might eventually drive me away.

But right now? I'm looking forward to getting back to it to teach those evil partisans a lesson or two

[discovery1]

syn attack = sync arrival

select an aircraft, then shift left click a box around the aircraft I think.

(b) The naval system is really confusing. Missions are assigned to sea zones but the names on the map don't appear to correspond to the sea zones in the list. I find I just have to click on one of the names and hope for the best. It's pretty annoying.

Note that some missions cover areas, which are alot larger and have different names. That might be the problem

(a) I still haven't figured out a quick way to divide up armies in the same province, because the only obvious way is to merge everything and then de-merge into all the separate units you want.

Yeah, this is a slight problem. Just divide up things the way you want them went they are built, and reorg your starting troops as you see fit. If you find yourself suffling troops around near the front lines, you probably poorly planned things out and your troops take an org hit. Don't let it happen.

(c) Assigning and re-assigning commanders to units is a pain. Does the list of alternative commanders you get include commanders already assigned to units? I can't tell. But either way, it's a problem, because if they're not, it means you're not looking at all your available commanders, and if they are, there's nothing there to tell you they are already assigned, at least not that I can see.

No commanders assigned to troops are seen in the select commander pool.