Interactive History V: The Duel of the Sea

[Uesugi Kenshin]

1) C for the previously stated reasons, and doing nothing is folly IMHO because we need to get the crews' morale up and if we can destroy even the forward force we will have gotten a victory for the whole fleet. Also we may still be able to smash the convoy afterwards.

2) B, we can't afford to have the British sneak anything through, we need to know if more ships are coming this way and they will also hopefully keep from alerting the British with more active searches.

[King Kurt]

A is too risky, especially as we need more training. The lack of training rules out B as well - also we need to act swiftly, and the whole fleet is very ungainly. So it has to be C - we need some qudos with the Admiralty - and it is a good plan, relatively simple and we can withdraw if things don't go our way.
We need the Zeps for info only so it has to B with an emphasis on keeping a close eye on the convoy and covering force.

Our fleet should operate as much as possible under radio silence. The hunt begins!

[Franconicus]

I agree with Kurt. Maybe the Zep can throw some bombs on the convoy, from big height and during bad weather. Let the English now that we saw the convoi and let us pretend that we will attack it soon.

How can we mask our moovement?

[Ludens]

1C) A and B are a bit too bold for an untrained fleet, but I think a sneaky attack should rid us of two battleships. It will also gain us some prestige with the admirality. However, if there are more English in the region, proceeding with the training might be a better idea.

2B) There is still at least one or perhaps more English battleships missing, but we should be careful with our zeppelings. Also, the English gunnery training may have been a feint, to mask their fleet's departure.

[Kraxis]

Results so far...

1) A:1, C:4, D:1

2) A:1, B:4, C:1

The fleet is not untrained, just a bit rusty, and even for the best trained fleet there will be mistakes and/or accidents.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I think the lightly guarded convoy might very well be used for baiting to lure us into a trap. I'd say - try to destroy as much as possible of the convoy but use zeppelins and everything possible to cover the possible approaches of enemy reinforcements, and withdraw the ships at the slightest sign of trouble, or when they're too far from our own harbors and places where they can retreat to in the case of the emergence of a huge British fleet trying to trap us. Also, make sure the Zeppelins cover all possible ways the British can sail to cut off our retreat to our own harbors. They might be trying to lure us out in too deep water too far from our harbors, so that they can effectively put their own fleet between our strike force and the coast. With their speed, they should have a good chance at sailing out towards our strike force and destroy it before any reinforcements from the coast would have any hope of getting close enough to help them. If so, we could lose a huge amount of ships and be so much weakened that the British could even stand a good chance of defeating our remaining forces in the North Sea afterwards.

So for choices I say:
1 C - try to lure part of them away from the convoy. We mustn't choose A, which means splitting up and putting us in disarray when/if the enemy has a larger force in reserve out there. We mustn't choose B, as it is too risky and might result in losing everthing - we're also not trained well yet so we should avoid the inevitable major engagement, that'll eventually come, until much later. I however think D is a little too cowardly - we want to take every chance we can to destroy ships of theirs.

2 B - create a huge screen. Concentrate on covering all areas around the enemy convoy, to look for ambush forces there, AND all possible ways a British force trying to cut the strike force off from the coast would take. No need to put as much effort into covering the other areas.

[Kommodus]

Hardly necessary for me to vote here, but I'd go with:

1. C
2. B

I have to wonder what those 4 heavy and 3 medium units are doing at Heligoland. I wouldn't be surprised to see them simply retreat when the realize the true strength of our attack, but we may do some damage regardless.

[Kraxis]

Legio, 1C means attacking the force near Heligoland. The convoy is somewhat further north of it. So if you want to change your choices, then do it, but I doubt it will have much impact really.

[Lord Winter]

1c 2b

[Kraxis]

Talk at length with Bodicker about the plans and in the end he agrees that a sneaky attack might just be the best option. You smile and tell him to prepare Hindenburg, Derfflinger and Seydlitz to act as bait. As he leaves you send off the new directions to the zeppelieners, that they should form a screen as far to the west as possible while keeping a single airship near the forward force. This will cover a lot of ground but there will also be many gaps.

During the night the zeppeliners Z14 and Z21 report seeing many gunflashes and for hours on end on the horizon coming closer. You estimate that the British are in fact training gunnery at night and at sea, but you are disturbed at the lack of info regarding the size of the enemy force.

As the first light sneaks over the horizon all three battlecruisers begin their run to the south. It is now 6:11. At 6:22 you recieve a message from V90, the zeppeliner on station near the enemy forward force. She has just been rammed by an unknown airship and taken extensive damage in her rear sections, but the smaller enemy blimp has broken it's back and is on fire after a burst of machinegunfire punctured her. She is attempting to reach Heligoland, but she is already dipping below the clouds, clearly spotted.
You frown... The British are using airships? And they know you are aware of their force, they might even know of your line of battleships. For how long have they known this? You think not too long as the collision indicate that they didn't know the zeppeliner was on station. Also now you have lost the advantage of rangespotting from the air. Despite these possible problems you carry on with the plan, turning your ships into a line north-northwest.

At 6:32 Bodicker reports contact with enemy light forces, two light cruisers, four destroyers and six minelayers. With guns blasing they rip the smaller ships to pieces as they try to defend themselves. At 6:52 the first smoke is visible from the south and at 7:26 the British battleships open fire. By then both light cruisers were burning wrecks and the destroyers were sunk while three of the minelayers were gone the the other three fleeing at westerly directions. Very satisfied Bodicker, steams at full speed northeast, towards the spot where you will be soon enough. The exchange of fire goes up into full and during the flight Derfflinger is hit in a boiler, dropping her speed to 22 knots, keeping her well within the range of the battleships' guns. Bodicker opts to stay with Derfflinger, spreading out into line abreast. It takes a while before the British copies this, and several serious hits are observed on the leading ship. The British gunners are good and keep straddling the battlecruisers and hit them now and then.

Finally, at 8:12 the main line is in range and Bodicker sverves to the southeast, presenting his broadsides and heading for the rear where Moltke and Von der Tann resides.
The vast amount of shells pound the four British ships equally it seems. All four are hit quite a few times. The guns of Baden and Bayern do greater damage on the former leader, and while the other three are also seriously hit they manage to turn away safely. As they flee the last battleship can't keep up and falls behind seeking a new direction to the west, while her comrades head northwest, she doesn't even fire back anymore. In the confusion three smaller ships, estimated to be armoured cruisers, are seen heading west-southwest.

You order damaged Derfflinger and 5 torpedoboats to chase down the stricken battleship, and order the other four battlecruisers to speed up the port flank to get alongside and perhaps in front of the British.

Just then the returning zeppeliner Z14 reports that it has spotted a line of 8 heavy units bearing down on you from the north, and V11 reports thatthe formerly wellguarded convoy now has only got two units left, currently turning on a southeasterly course, away from the convoy.

At 8:59 you are informed that another ship is coming from the northwest, and at 9:25 she opens up with her guns, while zig-zagging to present her broadside as much as possible while still keeping up with the three battleships, clearly she is a battlecruiser.
The captain of the last batleship is bright and uses all the tools in his arsenal to protect his and the other ships, venting surplus steam to cloud the ships, over stack the boilers with coal for denser smoke and a series of small maneuvers (indicating that this ship is faster) that lets her fire more guns.
Strikes are observed often enough on all British ships, while Baden and Bayern suffer only a few hits, but Hindenburg and Von der Tann suffer several critical hits and Von der Tann suffers a cordite explosion in one of her secondary guns, effectively shutting down her starboard centerturret.

At 9:13 Derfflinger reported that the enemy, now identified as Dreadnought, was dead in the water and not firing any more, and her destroyers were taking on survivors. At 9:42 she rolls over and sinks.

You feel the info from the zeppeliners is disturbing. Clearly the enemy is sending more and more forces into the battle. Already a battlecruiser has arrived, and soon another two battleships will arrive, making a full 5 battleships (of which three are quite damaged). Not long after you expect to see 8 further enemy ships. What type they are you don't know, as the zeppeliner didn't have the fuel to linger over them.

You think over your options... What will you do?

1) Drive on! Soon one or more battleships will not be able to keep up and will fall back to face destruction, easily making up for the battlecruiser and perhaps soon the two extra battleships coming down. And finally the 8 enemy ships seems to be coming at the flank, effectively letting you cross their 'T'. The current forces of 9 battleships and 4 battlecruisers (Derfflinger is not ready just yet) are more than enough.

2) Same as above with the twist of calling in the remaining 8 battleships to come up behind the enemy ships, and also break your line into three lines of three (and a line of four battlecruisers to the side). This should provide you with flexibility and firepower currently.

3) You are not certain that the 8 ships in the big line are alone.
While you are slowly closing on the enemy, you feel that you need more. Let slip the convention of the battleline and let each ship sail at best speed, then when the larger enemy formation is visible you turn around and escape, hopefully after destroying a ship or two more.

4) Continue as now, but order the remaining battleships to form a battleline going west then as the enemy heavy force arrives you turn around and retreat to the line of battleships to the south.

5) Call off the attack, the sinking of a battleship and quite a few smaller ships can easily be considered a success, though somewhat limited given you had such strength at sea, but who knows what is out there?

[RabidGibbon]

Not quite sure how to put this but I'd like to charge in with everything at the forward force (B) or everything thats at sea practiscing gunnery.

Whilst flinging up a screen of zeppliens across the likely approach points ie: the entire north sea (B)

And as soon as the (RN) forward force is resting on the bottom or the zepplins report that the Royal navy is en route we leg it back to Kiel. Or werether we live.

[discovery1]

Where are we relative to the convoy? and the other ships in the area? Are the two incoming battle ships between us and the convoy?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think we should break off and head for the convoy. It has only two heavy units left and so should be easy to smash. We should then run immediately for port to escape what I think is a closing British trap. This way we can get a little bit more experience in for our crews and another (hopefully) relatively bloodless victory.

Kraxis is this acceptable? Also depending on the answers to Discovery's questions I may decide I don't think we should do this if that is okay, I'll make sure to let you know that I've changed my mind.

[Franconicus]

I think we should break off and head for the convoy. It has only two heavy units left and so should be easy to smash. We should then run immediately for port to escape what I think is a closing British trap. This way we can get a little bit more experience in for our crews and another (hopefully) relatively bloodless victory.

I think we have to calculate exactly what we can attack withoiut being caught by the Brits. I cannot do it but I think Kurt is the right person for it.

Even a small victory would help, esp. if we can damage the convoy too. The RN would desperatly search for an opportunity for revenge and then we could possibly trap them.

I was thinking about the radio massages. I know thatthe marine has a very good discipline in this issue (compared with the air force), but it is critical anyway. So if we cannot avoid it completly why not make some faked messages. We have the Zeps out there and maybe we could ask the subs for this favour too. Let them pretend they all are man-o-wars or groups of battleships. This could cover the real messages.

[AggonyDuck]

Well I'd either prefer 2 or 3, but I think we will see the RN coming up with all the forces they can muster. So that's why I prefer nr.3 for now. Try to inflict some more losses to the Brits and pull back when they 8 ships arrive.

[King Kurt]

Initially my thoughts were to pursue the English forces, but on reflection it is time to head for port. We must always remember that we are not in an even fight - the english fleet outnumbers us nearly 2 to 1, so if we loose 3 ships to their 5 it hurts us more than the English. Let's look at the score currently - we have sunk an old battleship, some light forces and badly damaged 3 other battleships - probably old ones as they are with Drednaught. We have damage to 3 battlecruisers which will put them out of action for a few weeks.
We have 9 battleships and 4 battlecruisers - 5 if you count derrflinger. To our knowledge, the english have 5 battleships (3 damaged) and a battlecruiser with 8 more units on the way. My guess is that those ships are 4 battlecruisers and 4 QE class battleships. The QEs are particuarly dangerious, being the best the english have - at least comprable to our baden class. So all of a sudden we are in at best an even fight - all for the possibility of sinking 3 old battleships - ships that would be out of action for months due to their damage.
So, let us take the plaudits for a sucessful action, we are in front in the sinking and damage stakes, the PR will boost our standing and fleet morale and the whole action has been excellent "on the job" training. Perhaps our light forces could be aggressive towards the damaged units - but it is the morning - different if it was night and if the english blunder after us they might even stumble on to our minefields.

[Franconicus]

agreed!
We are outnumbered; so our strategy should be 'Hit and Run'.
So far: well done!

[Ludens]

The British ships are faster than ours, so aborting the action when they finally show up is a bad idea. I therefor agree with King Kurt (though I admit the situation is not entirely clear to me).

[Kraxis]

Observe my 1337 skills with Paint...


So you see you can't head for the convoy as you are already doing that. But remember that the scale is not correct. THe enemy large force and battleships are still outside sightingrange.

The British battleships are not faster than yours, their battlescruisers are and the battleship Canada (24 knots).

Dreadnought was old (the oldest), but you have determined that the group also contained Orion and Monarch, and what seems to be Neptune. The first two are pretty modern, with superfiring turrets, from 1912, while Neptune is perhaps not much older but of an inferior design where only the rear turrets are superfiring.

So far:

3: 1 (1pain1duck) and 5: 1 (King Kurt)

[Franconicus]

Looking at this excellent tactical map it is clear that we have to retreat. Maybe we can tell the HQ the position of the English ships, esp. the convoy. Maybe a submarine is near. (Yeah, I know we cannot command them, but we can help them, can't we?)

[King Kurt]

The map confirms my thoughts - any pursuit pulls us more westwards with the northern force threatening to cut off our route to port. We have bloodyed the nose and now it is time to quit while we are ahead.

[discovery1]

Oh. Yeah, it would be a good time to get going. 5

[Mr White]

As have been said before, losing ships is a bigger loss to us than to the RN so we should be conservative with them. Is it worth risking a substantial part of our fleet to sink ships who'll be out for months? We have to remember that we are playing against human opponents! They won't just risk losing ships without some chance of a return.

I say withdraw and wait for a new opportunity.

BTW good thinking Franconicus, every sunken ship is a victory for us.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I agree, our best option is no. 5, to retreat with the major ships.

The interesting question is however any of our "support units" of different kinds could do any damage to follow up the success so far. That is, if zeppelins or smaller ships could achieve anything while our main ships retreat to port.

I didn't really understand above whether our zeppelin problems involved just one zeppeliner or if it forced the entire force of them to fall back soon. But if some of them have still got the resources to do so, we might be able to use them for bombing the now unguarded enemy convoy. As far as I recall convoy ships weren't that well armed in the period, and lacked anti-aircraft weaponry completely? If so, the zeppelins could perhaps manage to carry out some limited bombing operations over the convoy without risking to take losses. While it probably won't cause any noteworthy damage, we might score a lucky hit, or if not, nothing is really lost.

As for the smaller ships it seems from above info that they can't readily be manouvered to do anything due to the daylight as King Kurt pointed out, and the position of the convoy and damaged enemy ships makes it really difficult to access them without risking their safety, and maybe they won't even be able to get close to the damaged enemies at all in which case it would only be negative for us.

[Kagemusha]

I agree numer 5.The morale should be boosted with our minor victory.Lets go home now.Let them English chace us and sail to our mines.

[Kraxis]

Only a single zeppeliner was struck, and has since ditched off Heligoland. A complete loss but at least the crew was saved.

I guess I can let you give the info to the Admiralty which will perhaps then give it on to the U-Boat service.
Also if you want I could let a couple zeppeliners bomb the convoy...

[Rodion Romanovich]

Also if you want I could let a couple zeppeliners bomb the convoy...

Yes please

[Ludens]

Thanks, Kraxis.

I go with the general opinion and say we withdraw. However, I would like to know our options for doing some more damage to either battleships or convoy with our supporting units. Can we send out a force of destroyers without too much risk of losing them?

[King Kurt]

Idealy our light forces should move to the North east to attempt a torpedo attack on the 8 units coming from the north. This might get a lucky hit, but more likely it will force them to turn towards the west/north west, forcing them away from our retreating fleet. Personally, I would not attack with the Zeps - they are unlikely to do any damage and may be damaged themselves - we should protect this asset and use it for its primary use - recon.

[Lord Winter]

Don't attack with the zeppelins lets retreat and not risk anymore losses. If an opportunity presents it self we should take it thou.
So 5