More Papal Integration

[Trajanus]

I remember MTW and the Pope. Not much happened really and it was a bit of a let-down. There were hints of events that would affect the game hugely such as excommunications and the downfall of the papacy etc. But nothing much happened.

I read somewhere that there will be more integration by being able to rig elections etc. which is good but I think they can take a few steps more.

If the Pope is overthrown then as a good catholic leader could you not ceed him one of your provinces and help to put him back in his place? Instead of the Pope showing up again everytime (in MTW) a few turns after you take Rome, this would add more depth to the game. It would also give you a side-plot to the game to focus on which would be nice.

By ceeding the exiled pope a province you improve your loyalty to the church and gain bonuses. Plus if you manage to reinstate him to Rome you gain his ear (or control).

I would also like to see the possibility of putting one of your bishops forward if the Pope dies. That could gain you another huge advantage if you are the English and the new pope was one of your bishops. You gain an ally, crusades become cheaper, you don't have to pay so many tithes, or you can control (to some degree) who gets excommunicated.

Finally also I would like to see the idea of multi-faction crusades. When Richard the Lionheart went crusading the French and HRE joined him. But they didn't suddenly all become English. I want to see crusader armies controlled on the campaign map by the faction that started it. That faction can offer other factions the chance to join the crusade and send troops. On the battle-screen each faction's troops are controlled by that faction, not given to you as reinforcements.

Hope I explained that well.

[sapi]

I would also like to see the possibility of putting one of your bishops forward if the Pope dies. That could gain you another huge advantage if you are the English and the new pope was one of your bishops. You gain an ally, crusades become cheaper, you don't have to pay so many tithes, or you can control (to some degree) who gets excommunicated.

This would be a great idea!

Finally also I would like to see the idea of multi-faction crusades. When Richard the Lionheart went crusading the French and HRE joined him. But they didn't suddenly all become English. I want to see crusader armies controlled on the campaign map by the faction that started it. That faction can offer other factions the chance to join the crusade and send troops. On the battle-screen each faction's troops are controlled by that faction, not given to you as reinforcements.

Possible, but i'd really prefer to have total control over all of the army...

[Weebeast]

I kinda like the pope thing but wouldn't you be over-powered? Say you hold a grudge against a certain faction, wouldn't you excom that faction even if he is not 'guilty?'

I do like the idea of inviting other rulers to take the cross. I never play RTW so I don't know how you communicate with your neighbors but I guess in MTW2 agents should do more than just offering cease-fire and alliance. Kings' influence can even play a bigger role here. :)

[Trajanus]

Agreed. The King's Influence should play a significant role in MTW2.

[pyradyn]

Well diplomacy is alot better in Rome but a lot better from very little dosnt make good. About the you over power if the AI did this and gained power could he to not excommunicate you from a grudge of past wars. If they can manage to put that in the AI. Come on you take half the country's land next thing you know your best friends? They mentioned that you can join the crusade i think they ment that you can send your own and the first one that gets there gains popularity with the Pope and riches. hmm never said you keep the provance 21 factions and not all known could it be an AI faction of Crusader States or im i going crazy....more crazy.


IGNPC: Religion wasn't nearly as important in RTW as it was in the original MTW. How will religion work in the new game? Will it play a large role in the campaign with the Crusades and the like?

Bob Smith: We're not revealing full detail on the crusades at this point. However, we can tell you that they'll certainly be more of an "event" in Medieval 2. Crusades are called by the Pope and all the Catholic factions can opt to join. The faction that captures the target first will of course gain considerable prestige and wealth as well as win favour with the Pope.

Religion certainly played a major role in the medieval period and subsequently the religious system in Medieval 2 has more depth than previous Total War games. One aspect of this involves the Priest characters you'll control on the Campaign Map. Priests can be used to spread your religion in their surrounding areas. However, they may turn heretic, in which case they fall under AI control and spread heresy instead, undermining the established religion. If you are deemed to have a problem with heresy in your lands, the Pope may send out an Inquisitor to deal with the situation. As well as reducing heresy, these characters may also denounce nearby characters, and have them tried and executed. Senior Catholic priests can become Cardinals, giving the player influence in the Papacy, and they can even get elected Pope, improving their original faction's standing with the Papal States.

Mabey i can get a Russian Pope to keep the catholics out of my lands

[Mount Suribachi]

I'm really excited by the little tidbits of info they've given us - Papal elections, being able to put your own Cardinal forward for the papacy. It also sounds like the Papacy will give you missions like the Senate in RTW.

The idea of Bishops turning "heretic" is also a great one. I guess if you get a bishop named Jan Hus or William Tyndale you better keep a close eye on him

[Trajanus]

Senior Catholic priests can become Cardinals, giving the player influence in the Papacy, and they can even get elected Pope, improving their original faction's standing with the Papal States.

Now this is good news. More integration with the Papacy. Also allowing you to affect what it does etc. I'm excited!


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He also said the Crusades will be more like events, so my guess is that the chapter house wont be in MTW2, so you cannot build and send crusades but only join the Pope's.

But from what I can make out it seems almost like a race between Catholic factions with the winner taking the province prestige and wealth. I just hope that the crusades involve multiple faction armies. There is nothing better than fighting battle with more than just you and your opponent on the field.

[NodachiSam]

It might be cool if they could work schisms in somehow. Imagine if after a pope dies you declare one of your own cardinals pope or whatever and other catholic factions have to decide which pope they follow. If you follow a different pope another faction would like you less. You could start your own crusades and the other half of catholicism would be less likely to join them or allow them to pass. As if the province they pass through has half the zeal or something. I don't remember if the Schisms ever caused big wars? It migh complicate things a lot and wouldn't be all that historical but it would be interesting.

[Trajanus]

This would be a nice little event to happen every now and then (ie. once every 5 campaigns you fight) but not every campaign otherwise you play to expect it and so it becomes obsolete.

[pdoan8]

IIRC, puppet Pope was mentioned as one feature in MTW, but it was not there. I hope it will be in M2TW.

As for the Crusade as more like an event, I like the idea. Catholic factions would contribute troops and/or money. The Pope's favorite faction would probably be appointed as the leader. If the Pope doesn't have a favorite, whichever faction contribute the most would probably has the Pope's blessing. Each faction will fight under its own banner.

The relationship between a Faction and the Pope would be determined by how much the faction contribute to the Church and how the faction react to the Pope request. The King's influence would link to this. If the relationship is very good, the King could also influence the Pope decision.

[BrSpiritus]

Agreed. The King's Influence should play a significant role in MTW2.

I Agree wholeheartedly. There comes a time in MTW vanilla where playing becomes ridiculous. I own 20 provinces the french 2 and have the HRE breathing down their necks but "They see no benefit to an alliance at this time." Definately room for improvement there.

BrSpiritus

[Kraxis]

IIRC, puppet Pope was mentioned as one feature in MTW, but it was not there. I hope it will be in M2TW.

Oh he was there... Take Romae and you are told that you have installed a puppet. But the effects of that was rather limited and coupled with the reemergent Pope every now and then made it not worth the hassle.

[Ludens]

The features sound very promising. I hope however that the player's priests will not be able to do a Thomas Beckett on him .

[Antiochius]

Cool, i hope the Pope will play an important role. that would be good for game

[Odin]

I kinda like the pope thing but wouldn't you be over-powered? Say you hold a grudge against a certain faction, wouldn't you excom that faction even if he is not 'guilty?'

I do like the idea of inviting other rulers to take the cross. I never play RTW so I don't know how you communicate with your neighbors but I guess in MTW2 agents should do more than just offering cease-fire and alliance. Kings' influence can even play a bigger role here. :)

This is an excellent sentiment. The Kings influence should be a major factor in all diplomacy IMHO. The factors going into that influence should include force structure, holdings, alliances etc, not just how many successful battles you have won against the AI.

The agents should be able to convey that on diplomatic missions, but some agents of course are better then others. Maybe vices for agents might affect how well the kings influence is communicated?

Back to the Pope:

I think vices and virtues for bishops might be a way to go here, a particularly poius bishop with ecclastical traits should have thier own influence (for lack of a better term) gauge. Factors in that might be successful conversions of populace, trying heritics, succesful negotiations on the leiges behalf.

I like the idea of having your agent elected pope, but it should be to someone renonwned for thier accomplishments (as well as thier leiges) and not soely the strongest armed faction. However a challenge should be able to be made if another candidate is suitable and then some election process.

That leaves a lot for the AI, but, hey lets shoot for the moon here...

[Trajanus]

I like the idea of having your agent elected pope, but it should be to someone renonwned for thier accomplishments (as well as thier leiges) and not soely the strongest armed faction. However a challenge should be able to be made if another candidate is suitable and then some election process.

Agreed. So perhaps it should be based upon the catholic bishop from all factions who has the highest "honour" rating, but also that faction must be high up in the Pope's friendly list etc.

Not just the biggest faction or the richest but actually have ways to get your man in as Pope if you are Venice or Milan or even Scotland!

Anything is possible if CA use their imagination with it I believe!