Alexander first impressions

[econ21]

I've installed Alexander with no problems and played a turn and a half. My overall initial impression is that it is going to upset a lot of critics of RTW but looks interesting to me. In an ideal world, I'd like the critics just to pass by but no doubt they will feel the need to vent.

Some specifics:

1). When it starts, you can only play Macedon. Persia is locked I guess. There are four "brown" factions that I think are minor - Illyria, Thrace, Scythia and Dahae. I suspect they are unplayable (upkeep=1 gold!).

2). The Macedonian unit roster is small, but with the phalanx and Companions as the "ultimate" units. Their stats are like vanilla, but Macedonian infantry seems half the upkeep of vanilla (I guess it has to be as they have about 2 full stacks of troops but only 2 settlements to support them).

3) The strange thing from an EB/RTR player perspective is that the hypaspists are lower down the tech tree than phalanxes and inferior to them. In stats, they are very like hastati (including two "pila") but with a large unit size, spears and less armour. They look nice and will no doubt be useful on the flanks of a phalanx but it's disappointing not to have some truly elite "foot companion" types.

4) Macedon has no archers - some "heavy peltast" type javelins is all the missiles they have. They don't fare well against archers. Well, at least I won't be relying on my Cretan machine-gunners etc to gun down the Persians.

5) The other units Macedon can recruit are hoplites, prodomoi (light cav but no missiles), Auxiliary Thracian Cav (like prodomoi in RTW), and Allied Cav (sub-Companion heavies). There are some interesting mercs - notably Thessalian cav, who are like Companions but less armoured.

6) I've only fought barbarians so far (Thrace and Illyria) - they are pretty generic from RTW. Their "chosen" type foot so far are sicklemen. Their generals' units are equal to Macedonian generals (better attack, lower defence) but also fast cav.

7) The initial couple of battles suggested that not much has changed from RTW. A barbarian general still ripped apart a phalanx head-to-head (47 dead vs 8). Javelins seem weak (one volley => no barbarians killed). It was very fast paced as we've come to expect.

8) The campaign map looks large to me and the campaign seems rather epic. You have 2 stacks of infantry, 2 cities and a pitiful fleet to take over the known world in 100 turns. Macedon is described as "hard". Sounds like fun. I must get back to it. Gotta find me some Persians.

[Ludens]

Thanks for the information, econ21. It sounds good so far, though if the battles are very unbalanced I may pass this expansion.

Still, please keep us informed of your impressions .

[econ21]

I would not say the battles are unbalanced - lack of missiles hurts the Macedonians and the barbarians have been tough, although that is largely due to their 2HP general units. Looking at the stats for the Persian generals, they are even more powerful (think BI Sassanid Immortals). I'm looking forward to fighting the Persians, as it should be rather asymmetric: the Macedon phalanx is ideal for killing infantry, but Persia's strength seems to be archers and cavalry.

I'm probably doing things all wrong[1], but the campaign so far is hard. It's very early days (only on turn 6) but money is very tight - I've waited 3 turns and not been able to build anything. Macedonian infrastructure is very basic so the troops you start off with are going to be all you have for a long time.

[1]Probably should have exterminated the first two barbarian towns I took and maybe disbanded some expensive units.

[Ultras DVSC]

Illyria, Thrace, Scythia and Dahae are unplayable, are you sure?

[econ21]

Yes, they seem to each be one province states - basically just like rebels. Illyria and Thrace are killed off by (my) Macedon very early. Dahae looks like it is falling to Persia on turn 8 or so. Scythia is too out of the way and may not be targeted.

[makkyo]

This game will be a challenge. It is extremely balanced against Alexander. All of the barbarian factions are allied against you and you have only one small army already in Asia Minor. The Persian fleet looks like it's going to be a huge headache, but I think that once you manage to get Alexander across the Aegean you'll be set.
The Macedonians are very infantry-focused but have decent cavalry as well. What hurts you most, as econ said, is the lack of missile units. The Persians seem to be more cavalry/archer focused and are almost identical to the People of Pontus or the Parthians, except that that have HUGE armies and a seemingly infinite supply of men. It looks like I'm going to be forced on the offensive (both tactically and strategically).
Listen to Brian Blessed. His advice is works.

But what is new tournament mode? I haven't noticed that before, and nothing is there when I try to pick battles. Is this an invite to the modders to make battles? I don't get it.

[phred]

From the manual:

"The historical battles are also playable in the new Tournament mode. This mode
links a set of battles in a best of 5 or 3 map match against a human opponent
in multiplayer, or an AI opponent in single player. In multiplayer you have access
to all the tournaments and maps from the start. To get the option to play a
single player tournament, you first need win and therefore unlock, a suitable
number of historical battles."

The historical battles are pretty good. I've played a few of them and most of them were a good challenge.

[econ21]

I'm probably imagining it, but it may be that the battlefield AI is a little better in the game. In my last battle with the Persians, the AI when attacking form up a line of battle out of range while waiting for its reinforcements and moving its archers forward to fire on my (frighteningly vulnerable) hypaspists. This is sensible AI behaviour as I lack archers and so have no counter other than attacking. I haven't noticed this behaviour before, but then I guess I always have adequate ranged missiles in other games.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The AI is definetly better. It took me a fair while to beat and subdue the illyrians and thracians. I haven't had time to really play the alexander campaign i've been enjoying the historical battles which are very hard, i founf gaugamala and halicarnassus very hard, in fact the majority of them were difficult.

[Roy1991]

The AI also tries to encircle your troops now, and it makes much better use of ambushes.

The Battle of Hydaspes is nearly impossible to win :(
You're badly outnumbered, and the Indians have a lot of good archers, chariots, a lot of hidden troops, and 3 units of triple gold chevron heavy elephants.

[gardibolt]

There's only one historical battle on my download....do I have to beat that to unlock the others? Good luck on that since I've gotten massacred repeatedly. It's the one where you have 6 cavalry to wipe out 1500 phalanxes.

[phred]

There's only one historical battle on my download....do I have to beat that to unlock the others? Good luck on that since I've gotten massacred repeatedly. It's the one where you have 6 cavalry to wipe out 1500 phalanxes.

Yes, you do have win each historical battle to unlock the next one.
That one took me a few times also. There's a gap in the line soon after the start of the battle - you might be able to exploit that.

[edyzmedieval]

Any screens Econ?

[The Spartan (Returns)]

now i really,REALLY want this game. cept i lost my wallet.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Listen to Brian Blessed. His advice is works.

so advisors are usefull now, eh?

[Slaists]

the first impressions:

good: the first few battles felt great. the AI did try to circle my troops. finally :) also, once my battering ram brought down enemy gates, the unit behind the gates attacked the rammers... never happened to me in the regular RTW.

on another note, in his first pre-battle speach, Alexander cheered his troops with ".... why we are the heirs of alexander..." :) what's up with that, CA? :)

also - on large unit size (medium difficulty), general cavalry units still appear to be able to rout phalanxes, charging head on... on huge unit size they are not able to do so, but my video card starts choking once full army sizes are fielded... hmm... and i'm not talking about harder difficulties, in which enemy cavalry appears to be able to wipe floor with any size phalanx...

[phred]

I've played through the campaign and I don't think a general's unit routed any of my phalanxes charging head on.

I had one battle with my standard setup of phalanxes in the center with the cavalry on the wings and the Persians came at me with cavalry in their center and spearmen on their wings. Their cavalry center charged my phalanx center and they all died and/or routed.

Once my phalanxes gained a little experience, they were practically unbeatable. I would select all infantry, tell them to march straight ahead to a point past the enemy line, and then forget about them as I manuvered my calvaly. they pretty much routed anything the enemy threw at them.

I was constantly short on cavalry but usually had plenty of infantry (without hiring mercs).

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Any tips for hysapdes? i repeately get 5 units of phalanxe routed after the first elephant charge. Then when thats over, i march my army toward the chariots where i knew they were weak against phalanx. Using alexanders cavalry charge tactic i kill the archers. Next when my phalanx hits the chariots, more men come out of nowhere and surround my army! when i bring alexander to encircle i get met with an ele charge and then more troops. It was a complete disaster. I thought Gaugamela was hard.


Excuse my spelling errors, it is late here in Athens

[Jambo]

The historical battles are probably hard (with decent AI) because they're scripted more. The only time a true assessment of the AI can be made is during bog-standard campaign battles..

[Mount Suribachi]

Yes, but a couple of people said they noticed the better AI during campaign battles - which is a promising development.

Question is, does this improved AI carry over to RTW & BI games? If so, the this may be a must to d'load.

[edyzmedieval]

I WANT TO SEE SCREENSHOTS!!!!

[econ21]

I managed to fight my way through Darius and several stacks of his boys last night. I was a little intimidated by their number of concentrated stacks, so I fell back on a bridge defence. Maybe a little lame, I know, but it is good that the tough strategic situation makes you want to rely on ambushes and bridges etc to claw an advantage. Due to the large Persian fleet, I have not yet been able to reinforce Alexander. This would be a very challenging campaign played RTR style, where you can't recruit and retrain in newly conquered settlements.

The battles are starting to get easier though. Maybe it is because Alexander is now picking up command stars; maybe it is because I am learning how to use a Macedonian army (essentially phalanxes + companions). I am routinely killing 1000+ for under 100 dead. It's not that the AI does anything very stupid - they seem to form up decent long lines before attacking, rather like the barbarian AI of RTW. Part of the problem is the low morale. The Persian line just seems to crumble within a few seconds of making contact with my phalanx line. My Companions are able to rip through them too - perhaps a reflection of cavalry being so powerful in RTW. The Persians don't use their many archers to get a significant advantage - they really should wait and shoot it out, waiting for low ammo before attacking (I swear the MTW AI did that). Most of their cavalry folds when hitting a phalanx (it is only the 2HP general units that seem able to penetrate them and only the Barbarians have them - the Persian generals have missile chariots that are nasty against cav but not good against pikes). Companions are not that superior to some of the heavier Persian cavalry but the charge bonus is a big deal and you are usually able to fight to your advantage. The biggest disappointment are the hypaspists - the AI archers target them mercilessly; even the Persian infantry mobs them and I am regarding them rather as redshirts from Star Trek: any encounter, you know those guys are going to get it.

However, I'm looking forward to an Alexander: Total Realism and am almost inclined to make one myself. The strategic situation is challenging and if you Alexander's recruitment was more limited, it would be very interesting.

I'll try and get some screenshots but one of the big problems with RTWs high battle speeds is that you don't really have time to savour the action and the graphics. Darius died in a second, almost unnoticed.

[Kralizec]

Even though its a far cry from historical realism, this game sounds interesting. Keep tellung us more econ21

[Jambo]

A good indication of whether there has been any improvement made to the AI in Alexander would be to find out whether or not the large siege towers are still bug-ridden when attacking large stone walls? i.e. do the troops still sometimes fail to climb to the wall and instead mill about the bottom of the siege tower as they do in the most recent RTW patch (1.5)?

[phred]

Here are some screenshots. I'll post more after work. I've already fought this battle(heroic victory), but I didn't take any screenshots. I'll fight it again and take some more shots.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[econ21]

Wow, you're playing aggressively, phred, attacking three stacks! What difficulty are you playing on? I'm just trying M/M to see how it plays, but even so I'm also meeting multiple large AI stacks.

[Mount Suribachi]

Alexander the Butcher?

[phred]

This is on M/M. Alexander's command stars and virtues combined with veteran units make for a formidable army. I haven't been limiting re-training and this is the core army that started in Macedon. I've been merging, retraining or resupplying this army since I started and they've taken every province (except for 4 or 5) that were off the beaten path, so they have a lot of experience.

As for "Alexander the Butcher" - that's from chasing down routing units after the battle's over. As soon as I noticed "the Butcher," I stopped chasing routing units and it soon changed to "Alexander the Brave."

[phred]

Here are some battle shots.

enemy army no. 1


enemy army no. 2


enemy army no. 3


Alexander


Phalangists


the battle starts


I move my line forward


I missed taking pictures for a while
here's the aftermath

[Mooks]

LOL alexander has a catamite vice. Does anyone know what that is? Its a boy that has sexual relationships with a man, in other words a pevert . I know alexander was a homosexual but thats stretching it...

Is the AI dumb though? I notice for every casuality you have theirs 10+ enemy casualties. The morale thing can be modded though cant it?