fire arrows

**Byzantine Mercenary** · 07-02-2006, 22:40

ok this is somthing ive been wondering about for a while, when is it best to use fire arrows?

I know they incur moral penalties on the unit you use them against, but if you are just trying to wipe a unit out, are normal arrows better as their more accurate?

also do fire arrows work better on more armoured units?

**Ludens** · 07-02-2006, 23:18

Fire arrows are less deadly and/or less accurate than normal arrows, but their morale penalty makes them usefull against units that can run amok: elephants and scythed chariots (NOT against ordinary chariots). I suppose you can also use them to tip a wavering unit into a rout, but for killing power normal arrows are better.

**Byzantine Mercenary** · 07-02-2006, 23:35

thanks for the reply, i thought that fire arrows were better against armoured units, i was fighting hopolites once and using nromal arrows and barely getting any kills but when i switched to fire arrows much more got killed, i guess that must have been a fluke.

**Dominii** · 07-02-2006, 23:59

Fire arrows are better able to kill armoured units as they set the unit on fire rather than just pierce the armour, or attempt to.

The best time to use fire arrows is when you have lots of archers, especially forresters, pharoahs bowmen, archer auxilia or cretan archers due to their long range. This allows them to fire off about volleys of fire arrows which is normally enough to create fear, then change to normal arrows to inflict the kills on the enemy. If you use two archer units, one with each option, on a single enemy unit, you can thin the enemy down and drop their morale before charging your front line into theirs and then chasing the routers with your cavalry.

**orangat** · 07-03-2006, 00:09

Originally Posted by Dominii

Fire arrows are better able to kill armoured units as they set the unit on fire rather than just pierce the armour, or attempt to.
..............

What? Is that true? I think the animations shows units burning but I don't think fire arrows are better, besides most units have some sort of armor/shields anyway.

**The Spartan (Returns)** · 07-03-2006, 00:14

sigh i stated all the uses of fire arrows along time ago. now its lost. oh well. uses:
good for scaring elephants and scythed chariots, can tip a unit into rout what ludens said, and keeping a unit into rout by shooting them when they are routing.
penalties: takes longer to reload, and is less acurate so it kills less. (though i wish fire arrows had a bonus against armored units or kills more)

**The Spartan (Returns)** · 07-03-2006, 00:15

Originally Posted by orangat

What? Is that true? I think the animations shows units burning but I don't think fire arrows are better, besides most units have some sort of armor/shields anyway.

i dont think so. but i need better confirmation.

**Seven.the.Hun** · 07-15-2006, 09:34

as i've seen, fire arrows only have the advantage that ludens suggested...animals that go nuts...
the moral effect is a good enough excuse for you to hit anyone with one volley of them if u have time...
and i think they do not have an advantage at all against heavily armoured units...
so other than beasts and a one shot volley to ... well whoever, it is always better to not use them...they do however look 30% cooler at night

my thought is that i'd love to use them against buildings and walls made of wood, just as onagers do. and against siege equipment...
that would be 100% cooler.

**SpencerH** · 07-15-2006, 13:36

I'm just the opposite, I turn on fire arrows immediately and only turn em off once in a while. The morale effect is worth more than the loss of accuracy etc and in RTR it was the only way for archers to have any effect against forward facing units with shields.

**snevets** · 07-15-2006, 14:41

One thing to put in is that while regular arrows will kill more men, many more men will recover from them than fire arrows. Think about it, in rtw, one arrow 'kills' a guy, but in real-life it would depend on where you were hit, and even if you were hit in the torso you might still survive if it was fired from way off. Typically speaking I find that if you have a unit of archers that you accidently allow within range of another archer unit which uses regular arrows on them, even 90/160 kills among your unit will result in full recovery after the battle, provided you have a surgeon. Now fire arrows on the other hand, one shot one kill. Once you've set a man on fire and he's burned all over his body the arrow wound is almost superfluous. Units hit by fire arrows tend to recover few or none of the men lost, even with a surgeon ancillary. So how can we implement this? If you're charging into a city with a full stack of troops but only the second level walls, you need arrow support so you can drive off the enemy from the gate to avoid a bottleneck. If you fear the stupidity of your archer's firing sequences allowing them to launch a volley at your own troops, use regular arrows and if they manage it not nearly as many of your men will actually die.

**professorspatula** · 07-15-2006, 18:12

I typically use fire arrows when I want to keep a continual barriage of arrows hitting the enemy, rather than for my archers to expend their reserves in a short amount of time, which is usually what happens when you use normal arrows. This is particularly the case in siege battles, whether defending or attacking. Having the ability to cause fear with your flaming arrows whilst your infantry and cavalry attacks your enemies is a very good thing, increasing the chances of creating a chain rout in the enemy's ranks, especially at chokepoints. Also the AI is often stupid enough to leave elephants in range of your archers on the walls at the start of a siege defense, so you can use fire arrows on them and laugh as they run amok and kill loads of your AI's stupid troops!

**4th Dimension** · 07-15-2006, 18:33

Originally Posted by Seven.the.Hun

my thought is that i'd love to use them against buildings and walls made of wood, just as onagers do. and against siege equipment...
that would be 100% cooler.

Actualy, fire arovs do damage against wooden walls, only proble is you can't target the walls I think.

One time I played this fort siege, and placed my Cretan archers by the wooen walls (right by them), and turned on the FA. Later in the game I noticed that the wall infront of the archers was snocked down, but not by the enemy but it seems by their arrows, but it took allmost two units all arows to do it.
Maby it's a bug but it happened.

**roman pleb** · 07-15-2006, 19:17

Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

thanks for the reply, i thought that fire arrows were better against armoured units, i was fighting hopolites once and using nromal arrows and barely getting any kills but when i switched to fire arrows much more got killed, i guess that must have been a fluke.

Yep. It was just random chance. Fire arrows aren't as strong kill-wise as normal arrows.

**orangat** · 07-15-2006, 20:43

The advantage of fire arrows is that it lowers the morale of the enemy. So the choice is either to thin the ranks of the enemy or lower its morale to break it.

Even when the enemy unit is no longer the target of fire arrows and recovered (no longer frightened by fire), I believe its morale is still affected for a short while after and rout more easily.