Hashishin: the dirty dozen

[rvg]

I've recently rediscovered the Hashishin in my latest Almohad game. I was doing fine with the combo of AUMs and Ghazis, but it was getting kinda boring. So, I decided to make an army with Hashishin as its core troops. In my previous experiences, they did not impress me much, being too fragile and whatnot.
Anyhow, this time around I made a dozen of Gold Weapon/Gold Armor Hashishin (thank goodness for iron rich Iberian provinces), and sent them to fight it out against the French.

A dozen of zero valor golden Hashishin UNITS led by a zero star general wiped the floor with the regular French army led by a 5 star general (your usual mix of swordsmen, sergeants, archers and knights)... From this point, I started throwing the Hashishin against tougher and tougher odds, and they just kept winning.
I did eventually have to throw in a few Pavise Arbies as insurance against those pesky Mtd Xbows and enemy Arbies, but other than that, the Hashishin slaughtered everything the came against, AND they gained valor like crazy. The ultimate test in melee came when they faced a full army of MHC (mostly heirs + Mongol Khan) ... Mongols fled after losing half of their troops. Hashishin did take some casualties, but they weren't severe.
Next came the English with a bunch of Billmen, Gallowglasses and Highlanders along with a bunch of Chiv Sergeants. This is one instance where Hashishin took more casualties than expected. NUmerically they were outnumbered about 7 to 1, but they came through and carried the battle anyway, even though a couple of units stood at 5 men (from the original 12). In short, yes, Highlanders die in droves, but they do manage to hurt the Hashishin somewhat.
Finally, I decided to try the Hashishin in Castle assaults. Loaded up my army with a bunch or Demi-canons and siege cannons, and went of the castle/citadel assault spree vs the Mongols in Russian steppes. Verdict: Castle assaults are a good way to valor up your green Hashishin. Most of the casualties came from the castle defences as the Hashishin approached the breached walls. Note: before sending in the Hashishin, I would pount the citadel with 11(!) units of cannon, concentrating mostly on walls and ballista towers. Then I'd send in 5 units of Hashishin (a total of 60 men), who would slaughter the remaining 350-400 defenders.

Final word: Hashishin RULE.

[MuseRulez]

I also think they rule. As long as you know how to use them. Most people that think otherwise just use them wrong. They look at their stats and think: "WOW! Those things will slaughter anything!" They train a few of them, point them at the enemy and get slaughter themselves. "He, I lost. Hashishin suck!"

If you don't have the luxury of golden swords/shields Hashishin will die quickly against numerus opponents. Just use (in case of the Elmo's) a unit of AUM to pin the enemy and flank with the Hashishin. They gain valour quickly and trust me when I say that plain valour 6 Hashishin RULE! You don't even need golden swords and shields. Still, they never really become a point'n click unit.

[Tony Furze]

Just about to get these guys with a fortress in Granada, so thanks for the tips.

I used them before once but they just strolled around the battle field looking like they owned it while everyone else did the work.

Now with a bit more savvy, I ll be able to get them into the thick of battle.

[caravel]

Nasty little devils they are. Providing you understand they they're an undersize unit, and thus easily flanked and destroyed. Deployed as skirmishers and flank atttackers they are highly effective. Personally I don't use them as they're not really worth the effort, I prefer larger numbers of average units to smaller super units. Also if all muslim factions can train hashishin they should all be able to train nizaris, as they are in fact one and the same (the hashishin were the "cult of assassins", followers of nizari islam).

[Scurvy]

i like using them in groups of 2

[Tony Furze]

Well, I tried them against the French.

They did pretty much what they did last time.They start at the back of the army, go strolling round the woods and let loose a few arrows. Admittedly they were targetting the French general...

[Vladimir]

Crazy Muslim berserkers huh? One thing I learned from VI is that the small unit size and good speed allow them to gut a unit's flank without being flanked themselves. I imagine they're excellent ambush troops.

[MuseRulez]

I imagine they're excellent ambush troops.

Indeed! Just take them off fire at will and they can hide in the open. (as long as they are not the general unit off course) Especially in defensive battles, just place them at the flanks, wait till the enemy general passes by and BAM! Dead general. After that they can help the rest of your army by charging into the rear of the enemy.

@Caravel: It's true that relying on Hashishin instead of normal units is the more difficult option. However, MTW is a game. Games are for fun. It is very much fun to use just a few men to kill hundreds.

[Geezer57]

Hashishin can be very useful when defending sieges. Your outer rings of defenses quit firing at the enemy when your men abandon that ring and withdraw into an inner ring (or Keep). By hiding a Hashishin (or other small stealth unit) in the outer ring, best placed away from the gates or wall breaches, you'll keep those towers, etc., shooting away at the bad guys. That one small unit can make your defenses much, much, tougher!

[Vladimir]

Very sneaky, and very nice.

[Sensei Warrior]

Geezer, I have to admit, you are chock full of sneaky little gems.

[Ironside]

Hashishin can be very useful when defending sieges. Your outer rings of defenses quit firing at the enemy when your men abandon that ring and withdraw into an inner ring (or Keep). By hiding a Hashishin (or other small stealth unit) in the outer ring, best placed away from the gates or wall breaches, you'll keep those towers, etc., shooting away at the bad guys. That one small unit can make your defenses much, much, tougher!

It's usually enough doing this with a regular unit, as long a it's placed next to the wall on the opposite side of the gate.
You can even win most sieges by letting the time running out this way. If it's fair play or not is up to you to decide though, it's cheap.

[Vladimir]

So would hiding Hashishin or Welsh bandits be a way to never loose a seige battle? Hmmm.

[Geezer57]

So would hiding Hashishin or Welsh bandits be a way to never loose a seige battle? Hmmm.

I wouldn't say never - it seems to depend on what proportion of your remaining garrison they represent. If your "hidden" unit is a significant fraction of the total, the A.I. seems able to "see" them. See the "Ambush" thread for more info related to this.

[Dutch_guy]

So would hiding Hashishin or Welsh bandits be a way to never loose a seige battle? Hmmm.

No if it's the last unit left it automatically becomes visible.

[Geezer57]

Geezer, I have to admit, you are chock full of sneaky little gems.

Thanks, but I can't claim this item as mine - it was posted some time ago in an older thread, no doubt by one of the pioneering players we all owe so much. I have tested it, verified that it works, and put it in my bag of tricks - with a tip of my hat to the originator!

[gaijinalways]

I"ll have to see about getting some of these devils. Might be a good reason to play a Muslim faction.

On another note, do you guys often hold seiged castles? I usually don"t except to sometimes be annoying to the AI as he can"t build in that province until he can flush me out.

[Prince Cobra]

I've recently rediscovered the Hashishin in my latest Almohad game. I was doing fine with the combo of AUMs and Ghazis, but it was getting kinda boring. So, I decided to make an army with Hashishin as its core troops. In my previous experiences, they did not impress me much, being too fragile and whatnot.
Anyhow, this time around I made a dozen of Gold Weapon/Gold Armor Hashishin (thank goodness for iron rich Iberian provinces), and sent them to fight it out against the French.

A dozen of zero valor golden Hashishin UNITS led by a zero star general wiped the floor with the regular French army led by a 5 star general (your usual mix of swordsmen, sergeants, archers and knights)... From this point, I started throwing the Hashishin against tougher and tougher odds, and they just kept winning.
I did eventually have to throw in a few Pavise Arbies as insurance against those pesky Mtd Xbows and enemy Arbies, but other than that, the Hashishin slaughtered everything the came against, AND they gained valor like crazy. The ultimate test in melee came when they faced a full army of MHC (mostly heirs + Mongol Khan) ... Mongols fled after losing half of their troops. Hashishin did take some casualties, but they weren't severe.
Next came the English with a bunch of Billmen, Gallowglasses and Highlanders along with a bunch of Chiv Sergeants. This is one instance where Hashishin took more casualties than expected. NUmerically they were outnumbered about 7 to 1, but they came through and carried the battle anyway, even though a couple of units stood at 5 men (from the original 12). In short, yes, Highlanders die in droves, but they do manage to hurt the Hashishin somewhat.
Finally, I decided to try the Hashishin in Castle assaults. Loaded up my army with a bunch or Demi-canons and siege cannons, and went of the castle/citadel assault spree vs the Mongols in Russian steppes. Verdict: Castle assaults are a good way to valor up your green Hashishin. Most of the casualties came from the castle defences as the Hashishin approached the breached walls. Note: before sending in the Hashishin, I would pount the citadel with 11(!) units of cannon, concentrating mostly on walls and ballista towers. Then I'd send in 5 units of Hashishin (a total of 60 men), who would slaughter the remaining 350-400 defenders.

Final word: Hashishin RULE.

I can't believe it. I really underestimated them .

Is this in the simple MTW?

[rvg]

I can't believe it. I really underestimated them .

Is this in the simple MTW?

V.I.

Not that it matters, really. Golden Weapon/Armor is what makes them jedi.