"I have returned"

[Martok]

Well after a month of not having regular internet access, I'm finally hooked up again. I'm glad to see the place is still running strong--not that I suspected otherwise, but it's still comforting nonetheless. Ah, it feels good to be back!

So, did I miss anything?

[caravel]

Welcome back!

[Deus ret.]

yeah, good to see you again in here.

So, did I miss anything?

not really....maybe in the cavalry use or abuse thread, you'll likely already have checked it out, though.

[Knight Templar]

Welcome back

[Ludens]

Welcome back.

[Martok]

Thanks guys. I'm just starting to get back into MTW again as well--I hadn't played hardly at all this last month. I'm about to start a Bohemian campaign in XL--I haven't actually played these guys before. Should be a good challenge!

[naut]

Good to have you back Martok,

Bohemians are one of my favourite factions, incredibly hard because your surrounded by Poland, Hungary and the HRE, so there is no where to expand without angering someone. I like taking Silesia first and then later taking Austria, Hungary and Greater Poland. Once I have these I go for Brandenburg. After Brandenburg you can take Serbia or Pomerania or Saxony (I advise against Saxony though, to close to Denmark and France) to start trade and expansion that way.

[Vladimir]

Welcome back.

I thought Bohemia would be challenging too but I was mistaken. Even on Expert the AI wasn't very agressive and I managed to tripple my land area very quickly with a paper thin army. They're also a little too far from Switzerland for me.

I'm sure they'd be fun though. Good income from Iron producing lands combine to make high tech lovers like me happy.

[Martok]

Appreciate the advice on Bohemia!

So if I want to conquer a sea province and build a port there to start trading, which direction would you recommend I take? Should I go north to Prussia/Pomerania and the Baltic? Or would I be better off striking south for the Med and taking Croatia/Serbia (I imagine I would probably have to eliminate the Huns while I was at it)?

[Tony Furze]

Welcome back, Martok!

After playing around with XL (which is basically what I did with MTW/VI when I got it) I ve decided on a serious long campaign...

[Martok]

Hey Tony; long time no see! So which faction have you decided to go with?

[naut]

Martok, going either direction is good. Simply because the provinces to get to either coastline are either Brandenburg and Hungary, which are both ridiculously rich. Croatia and Serbia led to the safe Aegean Sea, which has good trade partners and is easy to defend.

[_Aetius_]

I would always recommand a northward expansion, simply because you won't have to fight anybody outside your already large number of powerful rivals. Going south will get you involved the constant war in the Balkans, the Venetians, Byzantium, Cumans even Sicilians will all be involved at some point. Any conquests there would be hard to hold when you still have the constant menace of the HRE at your back.

Early on i'd go north and east, after that i'd blitz through the Hungarians and establish myself on the Danube before seizing Croatia and Serbia. Bohemia are one of those factions where if you suffer 1 reversal its incredibly hard to recover from and the HRE coud just swallow you up. If you seize those coastal provinces of Pomerania and Prussia you can isolate the Poles who are always under attack from atleast 1 steppe power and they can be absorbed, followed by the Hungarians.

Only then did I really advance into the Balkans, if the situation there is fragmented you can cash in bigtime, as the Balkans is usually being contested by 2 or 3 factions too weak to utterly destroy each other so cancel each other out. If Byzantium has remained in power though it could be hard to dislodge them. Bohemia is certainly in an interesting position.

[Martok]

Thanks for the tips, _Aetius_. As it turns out, I'd already taken your advice before you'd even posted it.

Two nights ago, I drove north to the Baltic Sea, seizing both Prussia and Pomerania. The Polish apparently didn't like me doing that, as they attempted to invade Prague in response. (My invading Silesia may have had something to do with it. ) I was able to repulse their attack without too much difficulty, however, thanks in part to the rugged terrain on which I was defending. (I've suddenly developed a great fondness for the Bohemian mountains!) After redeploying my forces, I launched a counteroffensive and was able to destroy the Poles in fairly short order. (I didn't get excommunicated either, which was a huge bonus.)

I then spent last night consolidating my gains and re-organizing my kingdom, and am now on a more solid footing. I have an alliance with both Hungary and Venice, and the HRE has (miraculously!) been leaving me alone. I've just started putting some boats in the water and have begun trading a bit. I've also been eyeing Lithiuania and Livonia lately, as they could give me a major boost to my trade income. Of course, I would conquer those lands in the name of bringing Catholicism to the Pagans.

[_Aetius_]

Thats good to hear, I spoke sense for once

I'm installing XL now to have a go at Bohemia myself and maybe 1 or two other factions.

Ah of course the savages must be converted the only reason I hesitate to advance to deeply into steppe territory is because I know what is coming from the east . I've been thinking as I type this how exactly the HRE can be challenged by little Bohemia, of course its possible the HRE could self-destruct as it often does, but if not then they are a major threat.

[Martok]

Well at this time I have no intention of advancing very far east--I just want to sieze the provinces along the east Baltic shoreline (Lithiuania, Livonia, and Estonia if possible). Once I've annexed those lands, I believe I'll turn my attention west to the HRE. Given how often they get excommunicated, I'm thinking I may have to launch a Crusade into their lands to save their poor damned souls....

[_Aetius_]

I've been playing as Bohemia the last few hours and im upto 1125, things have gone well, I invaded Silesia after building up my strength abit to provoke Poland into launching a foolish attack on Bohemia. They didn't fal for it so I had to withdraw, however I built up more troops and hired mercenaries and was able to force Poland to withdraw without contest from Silesia and then greater Poland.

I invaded Lesser Poland with 1001 men against 2100 Poles and conclusively defeated them, destroying the faction entirely by about 1109. I wanted a port so I was forced to attack the Novgorods who held Pomerania who retreated. Then the following year returned with a massive force, however it was a bridge battle and I was able with a much smaller army able to cause massive casualties. I think they were only saved by the clock running out personally.

After that i've had to try and consolidate, money is hard to come by and Pomerania is underdeveloped, I can't get peace with Novgorod at the moment. The HRE has to many troubles elsewhere to bother interfering, but the Cumans have overrun much of Lithuanias ex-territory and destroyed them and invaded Hungarian territory.

So they need watching, my next goal is to take advantage of the Hungarian-Cuman war if an opportunity presents itself, my long term goal is to establish a firm frontier made up of Prussia, Volhynia and Moldavia linking the Baltic to the Black sea. Also keep an eye on the HRE, theyve already lost Provence to the Genoese, Saxony to the Swedes and are at war with Venice.

Also one last thing the Pope has gone nuts, the Papacy has conquered Naples, Corsica and Sardinia. They rarely expand so much so early. Quite fun to play and I love Bohemian bowmen.

[Martok]

It's interesting that the Cumans have expanded that much. Usually in my games they nip at the Hungarians, but otherwise they just sit there. And I don't think I've ever seen the Papacy expand so soon like that either. They might grab Naples early on, but that's usually it.

Quite fun to play and I love Bohemian bowmen.

As do I.

[_Aetius_]

Oh man this campaign is getting tense, the first turn I had after reloading on 1125 (its now 1150) I had to repel a Cuman invasion of Lesser Poland and Novgorod invasion of Pomerania. Fortunately I had taken precautions in Poland and handed the Cumans a heavy defeat, the Novgorods I believed would win but the bridge and a wise use of reserves got me a crushing victory eliminating Novgorod as a major threat in the near future.

After another lacklustre Cuman invasion of Lesser Poland I had had enough and invaded Volhynia the Cumans withdrew so I invaded Moldavia and they again withdrew. By now a relatively small civil war had broken out which I took advantage of and invaded Levidia which cost me nothing as the Kievans defeated the rebels and Cumans for me. 10 years earlier the Hungarians had been destroyed by the HRE.

By this point i'd expanded my kingdom by about half and was suffering from overstretch and acute financial problems. Trade has started in the Baltic and ports are being built along the black sea, but its going to be some time until I get a return on this.

Usually i'd be confident of the future, but the situation is very unstable. The Holy Roman empire has already crushed Venice and has expanded into Croatia, Carpathia, Hungary and Serbia. Blocking my route to the Adriatic, Byzantium has also expanded into Wallchia mopping up the remnants of the Cumans.

I am allied with Byzantium and the HRE but they could easily go traitor, in the east the Kievans also my allies border all of my eastern provinces and hold Prussia. They are at war with the Swedes who regularly invade Novgorod which the Kievans now hold and the Volga Bulgarians who raid deep into Kievan territory on a regular basis.

So everywhere around my kingdom the situation is volatile, I didn't intend to hold the territory i'd taken off the Cumans, but now I need money I have no choice but to try and hold them. The superpowers at the moment appear to be the Fatimids and the HRE, the Fatimids have overrun the Seljuks and half of Asia Minor also Khazar.

So far it's been great and very unpredictable, just hope it carries on this way.

[Martok]

The HRE is a superpower?? What game are you playing--"Twilight Zone: Total War"? Weird!

Either way, though, I'd probably be more worried about them than the Byzantines. If the Fatamids have become as powerful as you say--and I certainly have no trouble believing that they have--then the Byz will soon have much bigger problems to worry about than you. So I would focus more on checking German aggression instead (although I would certainly continue to keep an eye on the Byz as well).

In general, I'd recommend turning your attention to Western & Central Europe. Your eastern border isn't exactly quiet, but it doesn't sound like you have any serious threats from that direction either. Novgorod and the Cumans are diminished, and the Byz are most likely going to be focusing on the Fatamids in the near future.

More specifically, _Aetius_, you might want to consider the viability of attacking the HRE's southeastern lands, with the primary goal of siezing Venice. I realize such an endeavor would be difficult, but it could well be worth the risk. With Venice in hand (and we already know its strategic value!), Croatia and Serbia--two provinces rich in precious metals--would be vulnerable to your armies as well. Finally, if you take even just a few provinces from the Germans, they're all too likely to fall into civil war (which of course would make your life *much* easier).


I didn't get a chance to play my Bohemian campaign very much today, so I don't have a lot to report. I did manage to get my hands on Lithiuania & Livonia, but I'm now stretched pretty thin as a result. The Novgorods look like they might be intending to take advantage of that, as they are massing troops along the Estonian-Livonian border (they grabbed Estonia before I did). I'm scrambling to deploy more men to my garrison there, but I don't know if my reinforcements will arrive before the Novs invade. We shall see....

[_Aetius_]

Thats the situation at 1176, as you can see there are a number of major powers on the map.

Recent developments include my expansion into the Crimea, the Byzantines going to war with the HRE and actually destroyed a handful of HRE armies and held Hungary before withdrawing to retake Greece. The long fight by the Swedes and Danes against the HRE in the north goes on. Unfortunately the Swedes were eventually destroyed, but the Danes continue to fight. Trade in the Black sea has begun in earnest, i'm abou tot open trade with the Fatimids in Egypt, Palestine etc, so I should finally make some decent money.

The Kievans are now masters of the steppes and the Fatimids were knocked off balance by a massive rebellion (re-emergance) of the Seljuks in Trebizond along with the Armenians in Edessa. The Byzantines are weaker than the HRE but they are about to recover Anatolia and the HRE has to many enemies to focus on Balkans.

The war in Italy has gone on for about 80 years, the Genoese and Papacy still tearing Italy and the islands apart, whilst the French continue to rampage through Spain. I could take advantage and attack the HRE, but I try not to attack unprovoked, the only exception was when I seized Pomerania, which I absolutely had to to get a port.

Curiously though that single action of aggression, began a chain of events that would lead to the destruction of Novgorod and the Volgas and the rise of the Kievans.

This map is poised to explode.

[_Aetius_]

Sorry that image is so small i'll sort that out in abit.

[Martok]

Curiously though that single action of aggression, began a chain of events that would lead to the destruction of Novgorod and the Volgas and the rise of the Kievans.

That may not entirely be a coincidence. It's not been definitively proven (and maybe never will be), but a number of MTW players have noticed that if they remain at peace, then the rest of the map tends to stay quiet as well. Whereas on the other hand, if they go to war with someone fairly early, it seems to trigger a chain reaction where a bunch of other factions will attack each other. It's one of the odd little things about this game, and we can't be sure if it's an actual bug or if it was just a quirk in the code somewhere.


As for me, my Bohemian campaign is over. I don't think I've ever had a game of MTW collapse on me as swiftly as it did last night.

Things went badly from the beginning. As I'd feared, Novgorod invaded Livonia before my reinforcements could arrive. My men there fought well, but in the end I was overwhelmed and had no choice but to withdraw what was left of my army to Lithiuania. This wouldn't have necessarily been a crushing blow in and of itself, except that worse was to come.

From the frozen north, the Swedes and Danes (who were allied) hit me with a joint invasion. Pomerania fell to King Olaf's army with barely a fight, almost completely cutting off my men in Prussia (including troops who'd originally been intended to reinforce my army in Livonia). Worst of all, however, the Swedes--after destroying my fledgeling navy in the Baltic--landed a large expeditionary force in Lithiuania. After a prolonged battle in which the momentum swung back and forth several times, my outnumbered army finally drove the Swedes back into the sea, where many Vikings perished.

In the end, though, it was a Pyrrhic victory, as my army was absolutely decimated--fewer than 300 men survived the battle. Sensing they would never get a better opportunity to do so, the Lithiuanians rose up against me, fielding an army that easily numbered over 2000 troops. While I could've moved more men in from Prussia, I realized doing so would be a futile gesture and withdrew from Lithiuania entirely.

The year after that, the Danes invaded Prussia in force, but I narrowly defeated them in a battle that was nearly as bloody as the one in Lithiuania where I beat the Swedes. Unfortunately, however, Prussia turned out to parallel the situation in Lithiuania almost exactly, as my surviving garrison was again too weak to prevent the Prussians from rebelling and driving me out.

At this point, 3 factions--the Cumans, Hungarians, and HRE--must have smelled blood in the water, as they all invaded most of my remaining lands over a span of 4 years. Silesia fell to the Germans, and Lesser Poland was quickly occupied by Hungary (who had dissolved our alliance by then). I managed to fend off the Cumans' invasion of Greater Poland, only to have the Poles themselves reappear there the next year.

By 1148, only Bohemia itself was still under my control. I tried to expand once more and reverse my fortunes, but to no avail. I failed in both of my attempts to regain territory--a modest raid into Francony(sp?), and a daring invasion of Hungary itself (both of which were initially successful, but in both cases a relief army arrived raised the siege).

In 1161, the German Emperor decided to finally finish me off for good (and put me out of my misery!). He attacked from Austria with an army of around 1800 men, including quite a few mounted x-bows. This time, the hills of the Czech clans' ancenstral lands were not enough to save me. Not even a whithering storm of arrows from my famous bowmen could deter the Imperial troops. They surrounded Prague and proceeded to starve my people into submission. In 1164, the Emperor's men stormed the city, and my king fell before its walls.

Thus ends the account of my Bohemian campaign. I believe I'll try again, but I definitely need to re-evaluate my strategy!

[_Aetius_]

Thats a shame Martok, really bad luck, but I guess that happens sometimes.

I considering quitting my campaign because it lost its balance, only 3 or so factions that have any real future and i've expanded into Palestine and Sardinia, which just feels totally unrealistic. Also because I want to install 2.01.

Just pondering who to go next, perhaps the HRE or Crusaders.

[Martok]

Yeah, it was pretty strange. I don't think I've ever had that many factions dogpile on me that early in the game before. Everything just went to hell in the space of a decade or so!

Just pondering who to go next, perhaps the HRE or Crusaders.

I can't help you there, as I've not played the Crusaders enough to really compare them to the other factions. I do know they're tough, as you're surrounded by enemy Muslim factions, plus you only have 25 years before the Horde shows up. It's nice to be able to train Knights Templar, though (and not be restricted to getting them only through Crusades).