Asians on a plane.....

[Divinus Arma]

I was pleased to see this. The response of the two ejected passengers was a model of understanding. These two gentleman put up with all of that crap and acted like true genlteman. Truly noble on their part. They made the rest of the passengers look like frenzied lunatics. As for the passengers, I think that we have an obligation to make our concerns known. We also have the right to leave at anytime if we feel our safety is in jeopardy. Good for them. As for the politics of the situation: If muslims weren't the ones waging Jihad against the west, then dark-skinned men wouldn't get this kind of treatment. If I were a Muslim or eastern, I would be more pissed off at the wacko islamofascists who are indirectly screwing with my life then the poor uneducated citizenry who are acting out their fear.

[Tribesman]

I'm going to ask again, where does it say they were Muslims.
But you don't get it JimBob , its the BBC when they say Asian they mean Muslim , its a secret code you see .
So when you post your link about a senior Muslim policeman it doesn't mean he is a Muslim or a policeman its the BBC secret code for "him" really being a Norwegian fisherwoman .

[Ser Clegane]

I'm going to ask again, where does it say they were Muslims.

Even if they were muslims, it is highly unlikely that the protesting passengers knew that they were.
Unless these guys were wearing "proud to be muslim" T-shirts or started any prayers, it is rather likely that they were just judged by racial features or by speaking what the other passengers assumed to be Arabic.

BTW, if somebody manages to get a bomb that requires a coat for hiding on board a plane at Malaga I would think that they have quite a serious security problem there ... at all airports that I visited so far you have to take off your coat when you pass security and then get patted down - I would assume that this is also the case at Malaga's airport (especially after the recent incidents), so considering a person to be suspicious because he/she is wearing a coat seems to be somewhat silly on a plane.

[ezrider]

Even if they were muslims, it is highly unlikely that the protesting passengers knew that they were.
Unless these guys were wearing "proud to be muslim" T-shirts or started any prayers, it is rather likely that they were just judged by racial features or by speaking what the other passengers assumed to be Arabic.

I agree here. What defines an Arab/Asian? Are all Muslims, terrorists or only the Arab looking ones? How the hell do a bunch of obviously paranoid ignorant, racist swine know the difference between Arabic, Farsi ,turkish, hindi or Urdu or Malay languages?

Would it matter if they did?
Obviously not. Their prejudice covers an area of the world from turkey and north Africa, the middle east, the Indian subcontinent and depending on who they are(the police for example) Brazil. Thats a good third of the population of the world.

maybe they would be in favour of segregation like the Yanks were pre 1970's. All the darkies in the crappy planes, all the nice white folk on the good planes(this doesn't apply to budget airlines, where all the planes are crappy).
If you go that far you may as well have segregated tubes, buses, schools....

[Divinus Arma]

We did it to the Japanese in World War II...

I'm not saying it was right or wrong. I am just pointing out that there is a precedent.

[Banquo's Ghost]

We did it to the Japanese in World War II...

I'm not saying it was right or wrong. I am just pointing out that there is a precedent.

Yeah, well, for a thousand years we in Europe blamed the Jews if our carrots grew in a wonky manner, and lonely old ladies with warts for our sheep eating the neighbour's turnips.

There's lots of precedents for scapegoating - doesn't mean we should continue the mistakes of our forefathers.

[Divinus Arma]

Yeah, well, for a thousand years we in Europe blamed the Jews if our carrots grew in a wonky manner, and lonely old ladies with warts for our sheep eating the neighbour's turnips.

There's lots of precedents for scapegoating - doesn't mean we should continue the mistakes of our forefathers.

Actually there is a big difference. Did the Jews attack your largest fleet? No. but the Japanese did. And likewise, did Jews get into planes and murder everyone aboard as well as a few thousand in the major financial capital of the planet? I think not.

How can you compare Europe's unwarranted hatred of the jews to an enemy that has attacked America?

Kind of a dramatic difference in all fairness.

[ezrider]

Interning Japanese Americans(or Irishmen - early 70's N.Ireland) out of paranoia and fear of further attack is nothing like hating Jews for no reason.

One may see many parallels in the way the British muslim community may be treated and the way Irish people were treated.
- Internment - not likely
- shooting protestors at a Civil rights march - not likely, not impossible
- framing innocent people for crimes they didn't commit and leaving them to rot in jail for 25 years - more likely
- shooting a man dead in the street without warning because he had a tableleg in a bag and was Irish - a Paranoid thought he was a terrorist with a shotgun and phoned the cops who shot first asked questions later. - they did it already (the Brazilian)


this kind of behavior only leads to communities being ostracized, when they should be integrated for the safety and mental health of all.




*off topic*
I don't get that Jew hatred thing at all? All of Christianity is basically an extension of Judeaism[sic?], Jesus was a Jew, so was God and the Holy spirit (if you believe in the Trinity )until baptised By John, when He became ... something else? Christians believe in the Old Testament, especially the idea that God created the world, which is a Jewish idea in a jewish book.
I suppose its as stupid as Catholic vs Protestants or any sectarianism for that matter.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Actually there is a big difference. Did the Jews attack your largest fleet? No. but the Japanese did. And likewise, did Jews get into planes and murder everyone aboard as well as a few thousand in the major financial capital of the planet? I think not.

How can you compare Europe's unwarranted hatred of the jews to an enemy that has attacked America?

Kind of a dramatic difference in all fairness.

But American citizens of Japanese descent did not attack the fleet. Yet they were interned 'just in case'.

The Jews were scapegoated for all sorts of things - by the standards of the times, their alleged 'crimes' were also thought to threaten the state, but they were also very useful for blame because they had a different culture, and refused to conform. Some Jews were in positions of 'threatening' power because of their pre-eminence in the development of banking, but most were as poor as everyone else. Didn't stop them all getting labelled as money-lenders and used as scapegoats for whatever we didn't want to own ourselves.

The principle I am arguing is that it is counter-productive to label an entire group as dangerous merely because some people who share certain characteristics have committed criminal acts or are suspected of doing so.

I have personal experience of this, both from the side of counter-terrorism activities, and from the unfortunate victim of 'racial' profiling. In the early eighties, when the IRA was up to a fairly serious campaign, I was arrested three times and dragged into assorted police stations - on the strength of having an Irish accent (gets noticeable when I'm having a beer) and listening to the Pogues in a pub.

In each case I was a serving British Army officer. When the plods searched me, they immediately suspected I was some sort of terrorist when they found my warrant card and banged me up. Note, the immediate suspicion was that their prejudice was right, and that therefore the warrant card must be fake. In each case, it took my colonel to come down and bounce the eejits off the wall.

When allowed to get on with my day job, I was fully aware, both from our training and my own experience, that reacting to prejudice put lives at risk. Behavioural profiling is much more accurate. Sadly, ordinary plods are not given this training, so random stop and search is back on the agenda because it looks good to the gallery - and guess what, if you happen to be Asian you get stopped a lot more, and resentment builds.

I must admit to being a little stunned that you don't appear have been given this type of training when detailed to protect your president, let alone your tour of Afghanistan. The basics are de rigeur for police actions/peacekeeping in the British Army. Or maybe you're just being your controversial self.

[R'as al Ghul]

Let's give out dressing orders each morning via radio.
"Today, it's going to be about 13°C, so no trenchcoats or similar garnments allowed."
That should help sort out the terrorists.

[English assassin]

on the strength of having an Irish accent (gets noticeable when I'm having a beer) and listening to the Pogues in a pub.

Yourn name isn't Winston Kodogo is it?

[That sketch in full, for the benefit of foreigners/the young]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Now then, Savage, I want to talk to you about some charges that you've been bringing lately. I think that perhaps you're being a little over-zealous."

"Which charges did you mean then, sir?"

"Well, for instance this one: 'Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing.' Savage, maybe you're not aware of this, but it is not illegal to use a pedestrian crossing, neither is 'smelling of foreign food' an offence."

"Are you sure, sir?"

"Also, there's no law against 'Urinating in a public convenience or 'Coughing without due care and attention."

'"If you say so, sir..."

"Yes, I do say so, Savage! Didn't they teach you anything at police training school?"

"Erm, I'm sorry, sir..."

"Some of these cases are just plain stupid: 'Looking at me in a funny way' - Is this some kind of joke, Savage?"

"No, sir."

"And we have some more here: 'Walking on the cracks in the pavement,' 'Walking in a loud shirt in a built-up area during the hours of darkness,' and 'Walking around with an offensive wife.' In short, Savage, in the space of one month you have brought one hundred and seventeen ridiculous, trumped-up and ludicrous charges."

"Yes, sir."

"Against the same man, Savage."

"Yes, sir."

"A Mr Winston Kodogo, of 55, Mercer Road."

"Yes, sir."

"Sit down, Savage."

"Yes, sir."

"Savage, why do you keep arresting this man?"

"He's a villain, sir."

"A villain..."

"And a jail-bird, sir."

"I know he's a jail-bird, Savage, he's down in the cells now! We're holding him on a charge of 'Possession of curly black hair and thick lips."

'"Well - well, there you are, sir."

"You arrested him, Savage!"

"Thank you, sir."

"Savage, would I be correct in assuming that Mr Kodogo is a coloured gentleman?"

"Well, I can't say I've ever noticed, sir."

"Stand up, Savage! - Savage, you're a bigot. It's officers like you that give the police a bad name. The press love to jump on an instance like this, and the reputation of the force can be permanently tarnished. Your whole time on duty is dominated by racial hatred and petty personal vendettas. Do you get some kind of perverted gratification from going around stirring up trouble?"

"Yes, sir."

"There's no room for men like you in my force, Savage. I'm transferring you to the Special Patrol Group."

"Thank you very much, sir."

(Historocal note: Special patrol group roughly equals riot squad, notorious for duffing people up)

[InsaneApache]

SPG was also the name of Vivians hamster.....

[Banquo's Ghost]

Yourn name isn't Winston Kodogo is it?

You know, in my original draft, I some paraphrases from the sketch, but decided to pull them because I was trying to be serious. Evidently the flavour still came through!!

Sometimes however, Python is truer to life than one has a right to expect.

[InsaneApache]

Except it wasn't Python.

Now that's got ya hasn't it?

[English assassin]

You know, in my original draft, I some paraphrases from the sketch, but decided to pull them because I was trying to be serious. Evidently the flavour still came through!!

As soon as you mentioned being arrested for "listening to the Pogues" the phrase "He's a villain, sir" came to mind.

I can't actually remeber where the sketch came from originally , was it The Secret Policeman's Ball?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Except it wasn't Python.

Now that's got ya hasn't it?

You're right. That's my theory busted.

Was it the Secret Policeman's Ball? Must therefore have been Peter Cook?

Hmm, just looked it up. Apparently it was Not the Nine o'clock News!

[InsaneApache]

Hmm, just looked it up. Apparently it was Not the Nine o'clock News!

Give that man a cigar.

As an aside, anyone who listens to the Pogues and appreciates them gets a free spliff and beer in my teepee.

A Rainy Night in Soho is just classic.

[Banquo's Ghost]

As an aside, anyone who listens to the Pogues and appreciates them gets a free spliff and beer in my teepee.

A Rainy Night in Soho is just classic.

Excellent - I'll be round at nine.

I agree with your choice, though my favourite has to be 'Down in the Ground Where the Dead Men Go' closely followed by 'Kitty'.

Listening to 'If I Should Fall from Grace with God' right now.

(We digress, methinks).

[Horatius]

I cede this debate, I can tell when I lost.

[Don Corleone]

This isn't really a question of racial profiling (or banning it). This is a question of treating innocent parties in a civil fashion. Frankly, I find this incident abhorent. If the two gentlemen had actually done something to be removed from the plane, such as violating the prohibited items checklist, acted or spoke threateningly or failed to comply with the cabin steward's commands, that's one thing. But as far as I can tell, this was a matter of "we feel afraid of them". Too damn bad. If this had been an American airplane, United or American (or Airtran for the budget airline point) would be facing a MASSIVE lawsuit, and most likely they'd be settling as quickly as they could, because they would lose.

Racial profiling doesn't mean discrimination. Just as doing a full body cavity search on grandma dragged from her wheelchair to prove how PC you are is ridiculous, once you've applied your security screen you have to have faith in it and treat people justly and fairly. Shame on the passengers and shame on the airline for caving in to them.

[Tribesman]

Wow Banquo , only 3 times , you lucky bastard .
I lost count of the number of times I got pulled as a suspected terrorist even though I have been fully vetted for security clearance at lots of MOD and British government establishments .
Listening to 'If I Should Fall from Grace with God' right now.
"Body of an American " at the moment .

[Banquo's Ghost]

Wow Banquo , only 3 times , you lucky bastard .
I lost count of the number of times I got pulled as a suspected terrorist even though I have been fully vetted for security clearance at lots of MOD and British government establishments .
Listening to 'If I Should Fall from Grace with God' right now.
"Body of an American " at the moment .

See. We'd infiltrated the entire establishment!

I was very lucky, you're right. When not under the influence of craic and beer, I have cultivated a very plummy British standard accent. Surprisingly, I never got pulled when speaking with that accent.

[InsaneApache]

You would 'round here....as a soophty suvoner...then they make you eat black pudding and wear a cap.

[Banquo's Ghost]

You would 'round here....as a soophty suvoner...then they make you eat black pudding and wear a cap.

Since this thread is irredeemably lost, I can affect a pretty decent Yorkshire accent too. I did my first degree at the University of Sheffield and acquired a taste for good black pudding - and Yorkshire cricket.

Not to mention my best chat up line: "'Ey oop, ye don't sweat much fer a fat lass, d'ye?"

I am a master of disguise and charm.

[mystic brew]

ressurecting the dead thread here, but latest news on this one muddies the water a little

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/cri...cle1223138.ece

[Sir Moody]

lucky break for the authorities then but he still wasnt a terrorist so doesnt actually muddy anything....

[mystic brew]

it muddies the waters because the claim being made is that they were deliberately trying to provoke the response they got, in order to get a pay off from the airline.

The initial response by much of the press, and myself, was 'oh god, it's like driving while black in LA', the new offence is 'flying while asian'.

But, should this revelation be proven true, i'd say it muddies the water considerably.

At the moment, it can't be proven either way. I merely offer the story as an interesting development.