Samurai Warlords XIII

[TosaInu]

It's a very long time ago that I modded anything, but if it's true that 2v2 work fine while 3v3 and up cause trouble, then I would say that something makes the system struggle to run: 2v2 is fine, but 3v3 is just too much to handle. Which things are larger than the default settings?

I'm using broadband, but as Yuuki says: that's not a guarantee. It's possible that two broadbanders can't play each other at times/all. I experienced many problems when one had cable.

[Puzz3D]

It's those DUX units that Alex is trying to slip in.

Alex had trouble in a 2v2. We should try some 1v1 battles with him.

[R'as al Ghul]

It's those DUX units that Alex is trying to slip in.

He's da devil I tells ya!! shakes stick in Alex direction

I think I may have the slowest CPU with 1.8 Ghz, as many of you don't fail to tell me every time, yet it's not me who drops. So, I don't think anymore that it's the amount of units on the field.
Basically, on the battle field we're now using new tiles, and new animations.
But everything is imported and meets the specs from vanilla. Meaning that our graphics are not larger in file size or amount of colour. In fact the tiles are exactly as large as in MTW.
For the Cav animations we use two 256*256 bifs. In vanilla there're two bif versions for units, for example: Custom0.bif and Custom0_H.bif with the _H being 512*512 and the other 256*256.
It could be that the game is scaling our _H bif to 512*512, which could cause lag. But I doubt it.

R'as

[CBR]

I prefer just to blame Alex.


CBR

[L'Impresario]

DUX FTW!!!!1

suckers hehe, my plans continue unhindered

[Tomisama]

So, we're back to square one without any valid theories?

I’m sorry you missed out on the fun part R’as, those last games were great!

I for one really enjoyed all the terrain variations.

And Tosa broke the bank with 1016 kills in the last game

The valid theory is that it is that this mod is great fun!!!

A classic classic

[Puzz3D]

I for one really enjoyed all the terrain variations.

The battles were very reminiscent of original STW.

And Tosa broke the bank with 1016 kills in the last game

Yes very nice game by Tosa and Tomi in that last battle, but Tosa had 649 losses. If you are going to count the last 5 battles, CBR had the highest differential in the battle on Longhill with 883 kills - 325 losses = 557.

The valid theory is that it is that this mod is great fun!!!

I thought the battles we great fun as well. We were able to play all 5 battles in a 95 minute session.

[R'as al Ghul]

I’m sorry you missed out on the fun part R’as, those last games were great!

The valid theory is that this mod is great fun!!!

Moving in to kill me, Tomi?

I sounds to me as if all is quite fine. We can't really do anything about dropped packets. As long as no element of our mod is causing the desyncs, we can proceed with playing and stop searching any needles in hay stacks!?

R'as

[Tomisama]

Yes very nice game by Tosa and Tomi in that last battle, but Tosa had 649 losses. If you are going to count the last 5 battles, CBR had the highest differential in the battle on Longhill with 883 kills - 325 losses = 557.

Not really looking to count the days results (small maps and not on same map). Just wanted to celebrate Tosa's over 1k game

[Puzz3D]

I sounds to me as if all is quite fine. We can't really do anything about dropped packets. As long as no element of our mod is causing the desyncs, we can proceed with playing and stop searching any needles in hay stacks!?

It's Too Soon To Know. - The Orioles

[Tomisama]

It's a very long time ago that I modded anything, but if it's true that 2v2 work fine while 3v3 and up cause trouble, then I would say that something makes the system struggle to run: 2v2 is fine, but 3v3 is just too much to handle. Which things are larger than the default settings?

I'm using broadband, but as Yuuki says: that's not a guarantee. It's possible that two broadbanders can't play each other at times/all. I experienced many problems when one had cable.

At least in my estimation, this is where we are right now.

I believe we originally over reacted to the problems of last week, thinking it was still a map thing. Or was there really a problem with the first maps after all? I for one am not absolutely certain.

But considering that aside for now. Are we now going to try 3v3 on one of the smaller maps? Or 2v2 on one of the new maps, and then a 3v3 and 4v4 if we can? Or does anyone think we are all-good now?

I believe we are still proofing the latest version, and wanted to ask these questions now to get everyone on the same page. I am sure we would all like to have resolution to this new level of development, so we can get on with the fun

[R'as al Ghul]

I believe we originally over reacted to the problems of last week, thinking it was still a map thing. Or was there really a problem with the first maps after all?

I agree. There's no real evidence that either the textures or the models cause any problems. Both features have been tested on smaller maps. If there was a problem it should have shown in those tests. I had two battles with Tosa earlier this week where we had Temples and cherry trees.

2v2 didn't give us any problems as far as I know. There've been many succesful battles.
In my opinion we should start with 3v3 on the new maps, which now carry almost no models. If that works we should try the 4v4 again.

R'as

[TosaInu]

The files for this mod can be found here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local....php?catid=131

Also mappack 2 which contains an important fix for MP (a startpos).

We may have a sometimes yes, sometimes no problem. It could be one wrong thing, but there's also the possibility that there are too many small overloadings/borderline possibilities. Fine by themselves, but together they make the whole thing unstable in MP. MP with 8 people is already balancing on a thin rope. May I suggest we try a startpos with 8-12 (?) factions only?

[R'as al Ghul]

Hello.

I thought that when we meet on Sunday we could do some further testing.
We do know that beta_5 works perfectly and we are able to play it.

Is it possible that everyone copies the folder \Textures\Ground\Lush
from beta_5 to beta_7?
By doing that we would have a beta_7 version without the new textures.
If that version works fine we can pretty sure that the textures cause problems in beta_7.
If it doesn't work fine we can be pretty sure that the animations cause the problems.

R'as

[CBR]

Hmm well if its that easy to go back to old textures we might as well try that.


CBR

[R'as al Ghul]

Well, the maps would look a bit weird of course.
Like we have experienced before.

But it should tell us something........

[CBR]

yes certainly. It will most likely only take one battle to find out heh.


CBR

[R'as al Ghul]

You mean one desync.

yes certainly. It will most likely only take one battle to find out heh.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

Well, the maps would look a bit weird of course.

MTW maps in beta 7 that haven't been overwritten will look correct with the beta 5 textures. There are many such maps in the beta 7 unless the player manually deleted all the maps before installing the beta 7.

[R'as al Ghul]

Right. Also all the maps from Mappack1-3 that were designed with vanilla lush set.

[Puzz3D]

The Samurai Wars 11b stats for STWmod beta 5 are now available. The download link is in my signature. To install, unzip using folder paths into your main STWmod beta 5 folder or unzip into a temp folder and copy all the files to your main STWmod beta 5 folder.

[TosaInu]

Hello.

I thought that when we meet on Sunday we could do some further testing.
We do know that beta_5 works perfectly and we are able to play it.

Is it possible that everyone copies the folder \Textures\Ground\Lush
from beta_5 to beta_7?
By doing that we would have a beta_7 version without the new textures.
If that version works fine we can pretty sure that the textures cause problems in beta_7.
If it doesn't work fine we can be pretty sure that the animations cause the problems.

R'as

Done.

[R'as al Ghul]

Using the beta_7 with the vanilla or beta_5 textures worked fine in several games. Unfortunately we only were 4 players. To be really sure that the textures are causing the desyncs we need to play some bigger games.

I hope we can test that next weekend.

[R'as al Ghul]

Okay we tested the old/vanilla textures on the beta_7 and it didn't work.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

The next logical step is to assume that the textures are not the cause for desyncs. Since we also tested a new minimal startpos with a limited number of factions (those that work in beta_5) it leaves the animations as cause.
I've mailed barocca and he'll work on finishing the cav animations. They currently diverge from what is standard in M:TW. Meaning they don't have a high_resolution page.

I'm uncertain on how to proceed atm.
The good thing is that maybe, if the textures aren't bugged we can use them for MP. barocca made working animations for beta_5, so I hope that we can fix that. But it's not a matter of copy and paste this time. We'd need a patch. I think I can provide one for next weekend.

Question: We did play maps without models and desynced, right? Just asking to be sure that it's not the models.

R'as

[Puzz3D]

Question: We did play maps without models and desynced, right? Just asking to be sure that it's not the models.

Last week we played 2v2 on sicily, steppinslanod01, (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 1, (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 10, (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 11 and (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 13, and there were no drops.

This week we played three 3v3's on (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 1 and they all dropped. Tosa and I played a 1v1 on (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 1, and it did not drop. Tosa, Tempiic, Tomi and I then tried a 2v2 on (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 10, and Tomi and Tempiic dropped.

I don't see any correlation of drops to models, but there is to size of the game. A 3v3 has virtually no chance of working correctly while 2v2 and 1v1 does, but it's not guaranteed because one 2v2 did drop. I think Tosa is right that something in beta_7 has increased the delay in the game. If it's the cav animations, we could check that by not taking cav. We could also have each player in a 3v3 take only 1 infantry unit to see if it's related to the number of troops on the field or maybe try 2v2 with 16 huge units per player if we only have 4 players.

[R'as al Ghul]

I don't see any correlation of drops to models, but there is to size of the game.

Me neither but barocca asked and I said the models where fine, but later I wasn't sure anymore.

A 3v3 has virtually no chance of working correctly while 2v2 and 1v1 does, but it's not guaranteed because one 2v2 did drop. I think Tosa is right that something in beta_7 has increased the delay in the game.

I think we can all agree to that. But if we want to go on we need to find the reason.

If it's the cav animations, we could check that by not taking cav. We could also have each player in a 3v3 take only 1 infantry unit to see if it's related to the number of troops on the field or maybe try 2v2 with 16 huge units per player if we only have 4 players.

I'd love to test all that. Especially the non-cav test seems promising. A shame that we didn't try it yesterday.
My patience in that matter is nearly unlimited. But I see it as as problem that 1.we can only test at weekends and have one week of in between, 2. other players may not be as patient. We could really need some help here, at least a constant 6th player would be nice.
So far it's 3 Mizus, Tomi, Me and a 6th unknown. (It was really nice of Tempiic to help us out)

I could send out a Newsletter to get some attention but the prospect of testing bugs doesn't sound appealing to most people.

R'as

[Tomisama]

This week we played three 3v3's on (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 1 and they all dropped. Tosa and I played a 1v1 on (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 1, and it did not drop. Tosa, Tempiic, Tomi and I then tried a 2v2 on (fl)_sw_o_mizulands 10, and Tomi and Tempiic dropped.

After the last 2v2, Tempiic and I tried to play 1v1, and Tempiic dropped.

Did any one else try a 1v1 and succeed? It is possible that Temp had a problem all along?

It is easy to get going wrong in all this.

[Puzz3D]

After the last 2v2, Tempiic and I tried to play 1v1, and Tempiic dropped.

Did any one else try a 1v1 and succeed? It is possible that Temp had a problem all along?

It is easy to get going wrong in all this.

I suppose it's possible that Tempiic had a problem. She did have the wrong textures in the first 3v3, but corrected them. We then checked that she had the MTW textures by hosting a map. Tempiic wasn't the only one dropping in the subsequent battles. CBR dropped once, and I, the host, got a message in 2 battles that I had been disconnected from the server and dropped from the game which kicked everyone. maybe it was someone else ropping that caused the me, the host, to disconnect. I didn't drop at all the previous week in the 2v2's, and I haven't changed anything in my install.

In the 2v2 with Tosa, Tempiic, Tomi and me, it was Tomi and Tempiic who dropped. Tosa and I finished the battle with no problem. Tosa and I could play 1v1 with no problem while Tomi and Tempiic couldn't play 1v1. So it's quite possible that a lower quality internet connection is interacting with some increased delay in the beta_7. The connection wouldn't have to be much worse than normal because it appears that beta_7 is only borderline working. We saw one week where Alex dropped from every battle, but he hadn't changed his install. CBR dropped this week and so did I. We can't all have bad installs.

The other piece of evidence is that we can switch to beta_5 and it plays reliably even in 4v4, so we can't say it's GameSpy causing the problem.

[Tomisama]

Today took a quick peek just now to see if I could find some one to test with. But no one available, so played a beta 7.1 (now twice since modified) custom battle and....camera movement lags in spots. Like when you are panning, the view gets stuck for a quarter of a second.

This is not good, it's broke

[Hunter KIng George]

Well, I am available during the week if any wishes to stop by...after 5pm central usa time.