The Black Hand [Concluded]

[Don Corleone]

Sasaki, if you made Doc-bean a spy, of course he was going to rat us out, first chance he got. I don't see how that could have gone any other way.

Edit: Did Mrs. Corleone pay you to do that?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki, if you made Doc-bean a spy, of course he was going to rat us out, first chance he got. I don't see how that could have gone any other way.

Well the rules were set up so if he ratted you out the town lost. Which is what happened.

If you've seen "the departed" or "infernal affairs" then you know the setup.

[doc_bean]

Clarification !

You have been randomly selected as a member of The Black Hand. Your fellow Mafiosos are Major Robert Dump and Don Corleone. You can kill 2 people each turn, sending me the names of who killed them and a description. You also have a mole among the Mason group, however you don’t know who he is, you lost contact while he was becoming a mason. You have 24 hours each night to send me your choices. I would strongly suggest using email and IM to communicate to avoid people who are watching who’s online.

Sasaki


That was the pm sent to MRD and Don. You are actually the undercover mason. The other two think you are a Mafioso. The Mason’s are Kommodus, Proletariat and Dutch_Guy. If you are killed by a Mafioso the town instantly loses. Be very careful about what you reveal. Remember there is a third Mafioso among the mason’s and you don’t know who he is.

and thanks for the support Don, even though I was a no good traitor

[doc_bean]

Well the rules were set up so if he ratted you out the town lost. Which is what happened.

If you've seen "the departed" or "infernal affairs" then you know the setup.

When where you going to decide to tell me the rules ?

[Husar]

What kind of weird thing was that?
Who besides Sasaki could know all that?

[Csargo]

Better luck next time

[Sasaki Kojiro]

When where you going to decide to tell me the rules ?

I was originally going to say something like "no pming anybody" but decided it would be less unnatural to write the rules so that it would be a bad move to reveal what you knew, unless there was only one mafioso left in which case you would naturally reveal yourself (which you couldn't have done with a "don't reveal anything" rule).

[Don Corleone]

Clarification !




and thanks for the support Don, even though I was a no good traitor

Well, I didn't get that you were a rat. I thought somebody snooped us, something I definitely have to learn about (invisible, not invisible, how do you break into other people's PM accounts )

Anyway, I was really hoping they were going to lynch MRD & me, then you could start popping them off one at a time and they wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

Oh well. And don't feel ashamed. It was your destiny, Judas. Just kiddin.

[doc_bean]

I was originally going to say something like "no pming anybody" but decided it would be less unnatural to write the rules so that it would be a bad move to reveal what you knew, unless there was only one mafioso left in which case you would naturally reveal yourself (which you couldn't have done with a "don't reveal anything" rule).

Well, as far as I can tell, I acted perfectly within the rules. I even believe the game would have been balanced. Don and MRD MUST have guessed there was a spy amongst us, so the chances of them catching me would have been significant, even if I had managed to survive, the villagers needed to follow my advice and lynch Don and MRD and the right mason (Kommodus, it seems), before I got killed for whatever reason.

And if the watch worked the way the rules you posted describe them, there was a chance I would have been killed while on a kill to keep my cover, Kommodus already knew I was mafia, if he wasn't the mafia spy (I still don't know) he could have had me by next round.

It could have been an interesting game imho.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Kommodus knew you killed Sigurd, he didn't know whether you were mafia or mason, and he couldn't kill anybody until the other 2 mafia were dead. Also, you can only be ID'd by the watchen, and being lynched wouldn't make the town lose. Would have been interesting.

If I ever try it again I'll try to make the rules a bit more tamper proof.

You were entirely within the rules of the game btw, though I think multiple accounts are against org rules...honestly I didn't consider that one.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This was how the game was setup.

Don Corleone and MRD were regular mafiosos. They thought doc_bean was a mafioso but he was actually a masonic spy.

Dutch guy was a vigilante and a regular mason, Prole was a watchman and a regular mason, Kommodus was an undercover mafioso who they only thought was a mason.

Kommodus didn't know who the mafia were and they didn't know who he was.

doc_bean knew who the masons were but couldn't tell them anything because if the mafia killed him the game was over. I should have made this clearer, they game faulted on this point.

[Don Corleone]

With a doctor, a detective, a watchman and the three masons, one a mole in the mafia, the Townspeople had a huge advantage in this game. Letting the mason's mole in the Watchman know who everyone was, especially the doctor, made their edge insurmountable. No offense Sasaki, but you need to balance these rules a little more. There's no way the mafia can win, espeically if they're not told one of them could be a mole. I didn't even THINK along those lines until Kommodus got protected, and then I just thought I was being paranoid.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, that was...not fun.

Oh well.

Crazed Rabbit

[GeneralHankerchief]

...

...whoa, I missed it all.

So doc_bean ratting on the mafia ended the game?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

With a doctor, a detective, a watchman and the three masons, one a mole in the mafia, the Townspeople had a huge advantage in this game. Letting the mason's mole in the Watchman know who everyone was, especially the doctor, made their edge insurmountable. No offense Sasaki, but you need to balance these rules a little more. There's no way the mafia can win, espeically if they're not told one of them could be a mole. I didn't even THINK along those lines until Kommodus got protected, and then I just thought I was being paranoid.

Meh, there was plenty of way for the mafia to win. Kommodus had already been "proven" innocent remember. And doc_bean would have had to pretend to be a mafioso. Also, there was no detective and there was no doctor.

[Don Corleone]

Think about it for a second. The mason's mole with the mafia is a huge advantage. That's twice that a mafia kill wont' go through, as it's most likely that the mafia won't figure out that they have a rat until the doctor protects somebody twice. If the mason's mole is smart, he'll only use this to protect somebody he really truly believes the town needs, like Kommodus, so it could be a while before that 2nd confirming protection happens and by then, the mafia may not put 2 & 2 together. In the interim, the mole can be out slowly building support among the town and letting the other two masons know who to watch and when. What can the mafia do to protect themselves in such a case? What's more, the two true mafia need to reach the conclusion separately, and SILENTLY. As soon as they mention that they suspect that one of them isn't on the up and up, the mole just whacks one of them.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Think about it for a second. The mason's mole with the mafia is a huge advantage. That's twice that a mafia kill wont' go through, as it's most likely that the mafia won't figure out that they have a rat until the doctor protects somebody twice. If the mason's mole is smart, he'll only use this to protect somebody he really truly believes the town needs, like Kommodus, so it could be a while before that 2nd confirming protection happens and by then, the mafia may not put 2 & 2 together. In the interim, the mole can be out slowly building support among the town and letting the other two masons know who to watch and when. What can the mafia do to protect themselves in such a case? What's more, the two true mafia need to reach the conclusion separately, and SILENTLY. As soon as they mention that they suspect that one of them isn't on the up and up, the mole just whacks one of them.

doc_bean doesn't have the power to protect anyone. The only reason he didn't kill Kommodus is that I made the undercover mafia member immune, he was the reason for the fake doctor role. If doc_bean had tried to kill anyone else he would have succeeded. And don't forget Kommodus had an extremely powerful position as well.

[Don Corleone]

So there wasn't really a doctor? I thought Doc Bean PM'd the doctor and told him to protect Kommodus.

[Kommodus]

Ok, whoa. Everything always seems to go down while I'm away. Don Corleone, you wanted to hear what I have to say? Well, here it is.

I was, in fact, posing as one of the Masons (a watchman), but I was actually an undercover member of the Black Hand. However, I didn't know the other mafiosi and they didn't know me. I knew that in order to help the mafia to the fullest extent possible, I would have to figure out who they were, and secretly communicate with them.

Here's how being a watchman works: you can watch someone's house at night, and if the mafia kill that person, there's a chance you will identify the killer. If both watchmen observe the same house, this chance is 100%, but if only one watches the house, the chance is only 50%.

Therefore, before the game even started, I convinced my fellow Masons that the best strategy was to patrol separately early in the game in order to cover more ground, and then patrol together once we had some idea of who the mafia would attack. While Proletariat chose to watch Major Robert Dump's house, I fortuitously chose Sigurd Fafnesbane, reasoning that the mafia would try to take out their greatest threats first.

The ploy worked better than I could've possibly imagined. I got a successful "dice roll" and identified doc_bean as Sigurd's killer. Because I'm working for the mafia, I immediately PM'd my fellow Masons and told them I had failed to identify Sigurd's killer.

My next move was a tricky one. Was doc_bean really a mafioso, or was he the undercover Mason? I had no way of knowing, but there was a 2/3 chance that he was really a mafioso. Besides, I reasoned that the undercover Mason, trying to help the town win, wouldn't want to kill such a potentially helpful townsperson. I took a calculated risk and sent doc_bean this message:

I know it was you who killed Sigurd Fafnesbane, Mr. Bean.

Got your attention? Good - pay attention carefully, because what I have to say could determine whether the Black Hand succeeds in taking Verzanna or not.

Why, you ask, am I telling you this, if I know that you are guilty? It's quite simple, you see. I am actually a fellow member of the Black Hand - an undercover Mafioso, posing as one of the Masons. I am working secretly to undermine their work and to bring victory to the Black Hand. As a watchman, I was watching Sigurd, and I saw you commit the murder. My fellow Masons know nothing of this, as I have claimed that I failed to spot his killer.

What you do not know is that the Black Hand has also been infiltrated by a Mason. Obviously I am taking a calculated risk that this is not you, and that one of your team-mates is the traitor. Therefore I insist that you do not tell either of them that you've received this message.

What you must do is this: immediately send me the identities of the other two members of the Black Hand. I'll handle it from there. Also, be sure to keep me up-to-date on the Black Hand's plans. This information will help me influence my fellow Masons to dance to the mafia's tune. Once I know you can be trusted, I'll send you the identities of my fellow Masons so that the Black Hand can eliminate that threat.

Also, now that you know there's a traitor in your midst, keep your eyes and ears open and see if you can figure out who it is.

I appreciate the attempt on my life, though - that kind of respect can only be earned. Now that you know I'm on your side, however, you must make sure that it doesn't happen again. The time will come for me to sacrifice my life for the cause, but that time has not yet come.

How do you know you can trust me, you ask? Simple - if I were not loyal to the Black Hand, I wouldn't be telling you this; instead, you'd be dead within a day. If you weren't lynched, you'd have a vigilante's bolt in you before the next sunrise.

I look forward to your reply.

I reasoned that if doc_bean was really a mafioso (which was more likely than not), our cause would get a huge boost. He could feed me information on the identities and plans of the mafia, and I could mislead the other Masons and get them killed off by giving away their identities.

However, if doc_bean was the undercover Mason, I figured I'd be dealing my side a rather large blow, because now doc_bean would know the truth about me. He could've done several things with this information, such as convincing the mafia to keep trying to kill me, eliminating the undercover mafioso and helping the town. Or he could've pretended to be a mafioso and given me false information.

Instead, however, he tried the illegal tactic of ratting out the mafia to the townspeople. Not a good move, doc_bean - I handed you a way to help the townspeople win, and instead of using it you handed the game to the mafia.

Here's the thing: back when I was starting Cosa Nuova, Pannonian suggested the idea of having two factions, each with a mole in the other. I thought this was an extremely cool idea, but I foresaw a problem: what could prevent the fake mafioso from simply announcing his role and identifying the rest of the mafia publicly? He would die, sure, but he'd guarantee a townsperson victory and therefore achieve his goal.

The only way to stop this is to set up a rule that if he actually does this, his side automatically loses. This is what Sasaki did. I thought of doing it in Cosa Nuova, but decided that it wasn't strong enough; could I really risk an abrupt end to my game simply because someone I don't know decides to do something crazy? Apparently my fears were well-founded.

Proletariat and Dutch_guy: Sorry about the whole deception thing. I really do prefer being one of the good guys, but this time it didn't work out that way. If we'd all been true Masons, we'd have nailed the mafia for sure: I think the strategy I picked really was sound, and we did successfully predict a mafia target on the first try!

And Sasaki, I thought that this game setup was fantastic. The existence of two competing factions, each of which has a mole in the other, adds so many levels of intrigue and tactics. Unfortunately you weren't quite able to solve the problem it creates, but with this experience you may succeed next time.

Good night everybody!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yup, that's how the game was intended to be played. Too bad it didn't work out, maybe next time.

[Sigurd]

Damn... I missed it all.

We really shouldn't play this during the weekends.

[Reenk Roink]

I feel like candy.

[doc_bean]

Instead, however, he tried the illegal tactic of ratting out the mafia to the townspeople. Not a good move, doc_bean - I handed you a way to help the townspeople win, and instead of using it you handed the game to the mafia.

No one said it wasn't allowed, even Sasaki admits I played by the rules.

I originally wanted to inform only a few people of my role, none masons and hope they'd believe me and help me. I however saw two problems with this, first off they'd have to beleive me, if they didn't adn I posted under my real alias they could even turn against me, second, they'd have to generate enough momentum to lynch the real mafia and avoid getting killed themselves (well, this wouldn't be a disaster, but it would have hurt my cause badly).

I figured PMing everyone as 'A_friend' would be my best bet. All the villagers had to do was bandwagon one of the mafia, while hopefully keeping quiet about the second one (not necessary since the mafia would probably be to confused as to what happened), the detectives could check out the second named mafioso the second night and prove me right, a little PMing from their part would have ensured they'd both be death and we'd only have Kommodus to deal with. A maximum of three lynches remained before he'd be death if everyone would stick to the plan (fat chance) giving Kommodus a rather small but existing chance of killing me in the mean time.

That was the best possible scenario I could imagine when I PMed everyone. However I didn't expect it to go down like this. There'd probalby be a lot of arguing about whether or not I was telling the truth and the villagers would probably stop following the plan pretty soon. Some one with too much time on his hands could have figured out my alias by my posting times (and my use of the underscore, a small mistake on my part).

Kommodus PMing me was both a blessing and a curse, on the one hand I had a good rrason to believe he really was the last mafioso, OTOH would the town believ eif I told them to lynch the one person they were sure was innoncent. We'll never see what kind of fall out that would have given, unfortunatly.

What really happened: Reenk posting my PMing and thus exposing me (Don and MRD are rather new to the game so they might not have figured out what had happened in time, but Kommodus now knew who the other mafia were, and could simply ask them for my name, if he explained what had happened) was worse than I any nightmare scenario I had imagined. (All is forgiven though Reenk )

I guess I made a mistake in not spelling everything out clear enough in my PM. I should have suggested a best course of action, I should have made clearer I was a mafia spy and I should have said they should PM each other and definatly not post it in the thread(I thought these were both obvious). But I didn't want to give my identity away for fear of the villagers turning against me, so I thought a short, to the point PM would have been the best option. I was wrong

For those who care: here is the PM I sent:

[mafia] I know you're innocent


And I know who's guilty !

Don Corleone and Major Robert Dump are mafia.
Kommodus, Proletariat and Dutch_Guy are the masons, however, one of them is a mafia spy.
The good news is the mafia doesn't know who it is. The bad news is that I don't know either.

I will not reveal my identity just yet, because if something goes wrong and I die, the town loses !

I will send this mail to all except the mafia and the masons.
Happy lynching !

I took me about half an hour to create an alternate account and PM everybody, however watching the chaos during the next half hour did make it worth it . Although I fear no one else enjoyed that as much as I did.

Sorry this game ended up being so short. I hope the villagers have better luck next time

[Major Robert Dump]

HAHAHA

I just sent Doc and Don emails before coming here. Anyway, in that email I made a pitch that if one of us were going to be lynched, that person will claim a good guy role and beg the doctor for protection when the hits fall that night. At the worst, he gains half a day to live and we kill one of our own who was gonna die anyway. At the best, we try to kill him, the doc saves him, and now the whole town thinks a mafia goon is innocent.
Would have been interesting turn of events, with or without the mole in the mafia.

Interesting also is that the reason i didn't kill anyone first turn is that I behind the curve as the other mafia were up and emailing while I was at work. When I got home, the decisions had been made and the kills posted. I really had no problem with them acting without me, obviously it worked for my advantage, but I was going to try to convince the boys not to hit such high profile targets. I just wanted to wait til the last minute to see who was and wasn't posting.

I also assumed (without all the spyroles takne into consideration) that since Kommodus appeared innocent, the Doc, Detective and Masons would already be in contact with him. In retrospect that would have really worked well for the mafia, but like I said, I didn't know about the mafia spy. I was also going to suggest waiting a couple of rounds and then doubling up on Kommodus with two hitmen so he would be unsavable by a doc.

Crazy turn of events, I should have assainated "A Friend" first round

[Dutch_guy]

Proletariat and Dutch_guy: Sorry about the whole deception thing. I really do prefer being one of the good guys, but this time it didn't work out that way. If we'd all been true Masons, we'd have nailed the mafia for sure: I think the strategy I picked really was sound, and we did successfully predict a mafia target on the first try!

I was going to ask if a mason could be a mafia member, I really was, but then again I dismissed that thought as stupid and unrealistic a moment later. I figured your predictions as to who would be killed were just too good, now I realise you were merely lucky, but it did raise suspicion though. Had we known there was a mole in our midst I think you'd be our first choice, mainly due to your correct predictions as to who's house we should check out. But we didn't.

But anyhow, to be fair, you had me completely fooled, and I'm probably speaking for Prole too. Too bad this game had to end so soon, would have made for a good one I suppose.

[Silver Rusher]

ROFLMFAO.

Sasaki, maybe you should try sticking to simpler rules in the future.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

What the hell happened? I log on, get some kind of bizarre Deep Throat-esque PM, check the thread and everything is done. Woah.

We really shouldn't play this during the weekends.

This is actually a very good idea.

Edit: Just read the thread. Reenk, you n00b!

[Major Robert Dump]

Actually, no offense to Reenk or to Doc Bean, but doc left the parameters of the game by making a new forum member who intervened, and that seemed to disrupt the spirit of the game.

I'm glad Reenk intervened as he did, because as it stood Don and I had no clue what was going on, and it never occured to me (maybe Don too) that someone in the mafia was a mole and got a different PM than the others. It still would have been interesting to be trying to work the cards against the grain, but seriously, I would have never have guessed we had a mole in the mafia since we seemed to be at a huge disadvantage already. In the future I suppose I will share PMs with my fellow teammates, it just never occured to me. In fact, if it looked like I was gonna be lynched I was going to suggest the mafia kill me. I knew the mafia had a mole in the masons, but we didnt know who he was and had no earthly idea the "doctor" was a dummy gig.

Oh well, considering the PM from "a friend" I'm glad it ended when it did. PMs like that are supposed to come from someone in the game who is identifyable, that way there is a risk involved for the person sticking his neck out and the people who recieve the PM can judge it accordingly basedon the person actions. Doing it anonymously and out of character seems to defeat the purpose of signing up in the first place

[Csargo]

I say no more moles in the future

[Major Robert Dump]

nah its all cool, now that i look back at emails i even see that Doc suggested he not go invisible, which should have set off alarms for me, but i was too lame to think that we had a mole in the mafia, even though i knew we would have a mole in the masons. Prolly in the future, as long as everyone knows what the roles are, it would make for a long, grueling fun game. Had i even suspected a mole in the mafia I would not have been as cordial to my teammates, except for the fact that between the 3 of us we only got to have 2 kills, so we would obviously have to vote and coordinate somewhat