Warhammer Total War 2

[whiterussian]

First of, orcs should not be able to recruite slaves the slaves wouldn't fight for em and the orcs would rather eat em.

as for the whole recruiting issue, well either you let all races recruit from all over the map, which I think is the best option. Perhaps you could make it a bit more expensive the further you get from home?

fluff wise you could say that the area is settled quite quickly, also a hostile takeover of a city should result in a big loss of manpower in that city, thus as the number of people rebuild this can be, fluffwise, atributed to people moving in and settleling, or in the case of the orcs breeding like crazy.

second option would be to differ between the diffrent races. why? well orcs and goblin multiply at a very fast rate in almost any enviroment meaning that they will almost allways have a good recruiting base for troops, and arming and training isn't that big of a problem for the orcs even if they are away from home. perhaps you could give diffrent races diffrent reproduction rates? or perhaps make it possible for orcs to recruite from allover and limit the less reproductive races such as dwarfs to only be able to recruite from there homelands. however I feel that this might bring about a too great unbalance.

to sum things up, my oppinion is that there should be no restrictions when it comes to where a race can recruite its troops, I've played mods that have had these kinds of restriction and though they might be somewhat more accurate (Not really that much more!) it gets enourmously enoying in the end to have to ship or walk your troops hafaway around the world in the end! to much accuracy and "realism" might end end up being what killed the cat. And as I've shown there isn't really enough fluff-reason to make this kind of recruiting restrictions.

I hope you agree with me. Nice mod keep it up!

also you could include a "finding the americas" kinda thing in the game, represented by the discovery of lustria and so on. any thoughts.

Oh yeah before I forget, last and least I'll introduce myself, White, hopefully a future frequent poster and at present a die hard warhammerite.

[uanime5]

I am assuming ( since it was in RTW but I haven't confirmed it's in MTW2 ) that a form of Zone of Recruitment is possible. There was also the 'hidden resource' thing.

Like how you could only recruit elephants and Spartan Hoplites in certain regions of RTW. If this feature does exist it is not used in M2TW.

second option would be to differ between the diffrent races. why? well orcs and goblin multiply at a very fast rate in almost any enviroment meaning that they will almost allways have a good recruiting base for troops, and arming and training isn't that big of a problem for the orcs even if they are away from home. perhaps you could give diffrent races diffrent reproduction rates? or perhaps make it possible for orcs to recruite from allover and limit the less reproductive races such as dwarfs to only be able to recruite from there homelands. however I feel that this might bring about a too great unbalance.

It's not possible to change the recruitment rates with distance from home. It's possible to change the refresh rate (lag between recruiting units), unit size, and total number of units available. So you could let the orcs produce a large number of soldiers, while the dwarves could produce far fewer. Though to make this balanced the dwarvern units could be made stronger than the orc ones.

[Casuir]

It is possible to modify the game so that one faction, such as the Orcs, can train some units from another faction, such as the dwarves. However this requires that each faction has its own set of buildings. This would work in the following manner:

In a lot of the cases here units from one army are never going to fight for another, dwarfs in particular hate orcs and having orcs able to dwarven units isnt very realistic. Orcs even taking a dwarven town with population intact is unrealistic. It might be possible to limit the options available to you after you take a settlement through a script, theres events and commands in the docudemons which look like they could be strung together to disable some of the buttons on capture, dont know enough about scripting to say for sure though it might be worth chasing up, cant see say the empire doing anything other than exterminating a skaven city after capture, likewise the dwarves capturing a orc stronghold.

As for limiting recruitment, like bwian pointed out if its done right it adds a new element of strategy to the game, which to me is what the game is about. Capturing settlements and spitting out high end units gets boring after a while, the extra bit of difficulty as you get bigger imo makes the game more interesting.

[uanime5]

I used dwarves and orcs as an example because they were listed above. While some factions may oppose working with another faction (orc and dwarves) other factions may work together (though not always willingly).

For example Chaos could create corrupted civilians and use them as cannon fodder. Also there are bound to be some people in the Empire who would convert the Hordes of Chaos to save their lives, or even out of disloyalty should chaos conquer their city.

Also limiting recruitment only works if you don't have the maximium amount of units allowed. Otherwise you can still create high level units (especially if you capture a higher level building that you originally had).

[Jobst_vonGrünungen]

First of, orcs should not be able to recruite slaves the slaves wouldn't fight for em and the orcs would rather eat em.

as for the whole recruiting issue, well either you let all races recruit from all over the map, which I think is the best option. Perhaps you could make it a bit more expensive the further you get from home?

fluff wise you could say that the area is settled quite quickly, also a hostile takeover of a city should result in a big loss of manpower in that city, thus as the number of people rebuild this can be, fluffwise, atributed to people moving in and settleling, or in the case of the orcs breeding like crazy.

second option would be to differ between the diffrent races. why? well orcs and goblin multiply at a very fast rate in almost any enviroment meaning that they will almost allways have a good recruiting base for troops, and arming and training isn't that big of a problem for the orcs even if they are away from home. perhaps you could give diffrent races diffrent reproduction rates? or perhaps make it possible for orcs to recruite from allover and limit the less reproductive races such as dwarfs to only be able to recruite from there homelands. however I feel that this might bring about a too great unbalance.

to sum things up, my oppinion is that there should be no restrictions when it comes to where a race can recruite its troops, I've played mods that have had these kinds of restriction and though they might be somewhat more accurate (Not really that much more!) it gets enourmously enoying in the end to have to ship or walk your troops hafaway around the world in the end! to much accuracy and "realism" might end end up being what killed the cat. And as I've shown there isn't really enough fluff-reason to make this kind of recruiting restrictions.

I hope you agree with me. Nice mod keep it up!

also you could include a "finding the americas" kinda thing in the game, represented by the discovery of lustria and so on. any thoughts.

Oh yeah before I forget, last and least I'll introduce myself, White, hopefully a future frequent poster and at present a die hard warhammerite.

I forgot about the new unit-availability rules. The slowly growing number of available units actually represents a growing population of your race pretty well, now that I think about it.

[Bwian]

Just a few screenshots to let you guys know that progress is being made on the units I was working on some Tomb Kings units while I was waiting for MTW2 mesh modelling to become possible. Now it has, and after some head scratching, I have a solid pipeline process for getting units in game. Time to leap ahead and start getting some units in game!

I have also started work on some Chaos units, and will be putting some screenies of those up soon

[Jobst_vonGrünungen]

Wow, those are looking really good! I am an Orc-Fan myself, but this is a good show of how you can alter the model's frame, make him taller or shorter, thinner or broader, etc., which is crucial in a warhammer mod.

[Meneldil]

While the unit by themselves are trully great, I think they lack some Tomb King feelings. No egyptian-ish banners, finely crafter weapons, that sort of things.

Otherwise, they're impressive. I think you already made skeleton units for RTW (at least I seem to recall you did so), but those are definitely great :) They look really undead-ish, stupid, brainless and all that.

[ellydog]

great! I noticed that some of them were duel weilding, would it be possible to make them fight appropriatly for duel weirlding?

[Bwian]

The issue of altering the skeleton to change proportions is one I have raised with the tool makers. We really need this to make things really non-human. Early days though for the tookit. I have tried makign changes ot the skeleton, and we have the same problem that RTW had. The mesh stores the bones..but it is the skeleton.dat file that over-rides it all. The model can be imported into the game with the bones re-sited ( which RTW couldn't ) but as soon as you apply an animation, the bones pivot on the stock human location. I think we need to be able to re-write the DAT file to make this work.

If this never materialises, I did manage to get some good results with some creative tweaking! It's a lot easier if the tools let us move the bones .... but I have a plan B for every eventuality! I WILL need a tool, though, to scale the skeletons and some way of re-doing the animations!

Meneldil ... these skeletons are a brand new model, and are more detailed than the previous efforts. MTW2 gives me more polygons to play with, so I have increased the detail on the skull and made proper radius and ulna bones for the arms. Banner bearers will feature ( not sure how MTW2 does this.... ) either RTW fashion, or by attaching standards to the back of some units 'samurai' fashion! If I made 8 or 9 torso models and attached the banner to just one, then there would be banners. One way or another, I will get a load of banners on the field! Same goes for the horn carriers.

Ellydog ... none of those units are carrying 2 weapons. It's easy to do ... you just make the weapon part of hte hand model. The actions of the animation determine how it looks in game, and it usually looks good enough to pass muster! With additional hand model variations, this sort of thing gets much much easier

[Myrddraal]

I'd love to see some skeletons with missing limbs

[Bwian]

I am not going to use missing parts on the Tomb Kings units, since they are ...er...elegant undead, if you will! The Vampire Counts, however, will be using zombies with bits missing and decaying skeletons with lots of bits missing.

They are both 'Undead' factions, and this is part of the differentiating. The Vampire Counts are raising armies from the graveyards and remnants, while the Tomb Kings have carefully laid out dead soldiers which were expected to fight on for their masters long after death. I get the feeling that these guys, if they had a limb chopped off, would go and find themselves a new one!

[Ilsamir Lord]

Stunning! Those skeletons are super! What a great example of the power of the .mesh editor :D

[Meneldil]

I am not going to use missing parts on the Tomb Kings units, since they are ...er...elegant undead, if you will! The Vampire Counts, however, will be using zombies with bits missing and decaying skeletons with lots of bits missing.

Can't wait for those, and some weird chaos beast :D

[alexader]

Bwian,you really rock,i am really impressed from what i saw,very good job,you are making my dreams come true,we all support you,keep on!!!''with this units you are the master,with steam tank inside,you are GOD''
Keep Walking..................

[ellydog]

I hope he can get as many units in as possible, and even the elepant with the canon could fill in the spot for the steam tank.

[Meneldil]

I think Bwian already made tanks for RTW, so I hope and guess doing a Steam Tank for MTW2 is possible for him :D

[DrZoidberg]

yay, a Warhammer mod. I was on the team making the massive warhammer mod for Civ3 so I'm sure I can offer expert advice help here if needed. I've still got all my books.

cool and take care

[Bwian]

Check out the Hosted Mods section ... the Mod now has it's own forum there. Future updates will be posted there, so pop over and see what we are up to!

[NagatsukaShumi]

As the mod now has a forum, its best we don't divert Bwain's attention between two threads, closing this one, please all go to the relevent forum.

Kind Regards
Nag