Venice

[frogbeastegg]

Venice is playable right from the start, without the need to unlock it or edit any files.

[Amon_Zeth]

Watch out for Emperor Alexius of the Byzantines, to the east. He's got about eight stars or so, and I think he usually has a full stack of troops with him. Scary.

[Lusted]

Overview

Venice are in an interesting position. At the start they border Milan, HRE and Hungary, and soon will border Byzantium and Sicily as well. It has good trade and a good mix of units, especially some useful militia units to protect its cities. It's unique infantry units(Venetian Heavy Infatry, Venetian Archers) do not take long to get, and are good quality troops.

Starting Position

As mentioned above, your borders are nearly surrounded by other factions at the beginning. There are 3 rebel provinces near by that you should try and get as soon as you can. Zagreb or Durazzo you wil be assinged to take by the Council of Nobles, and i go for both of them. Also try and get Florence if you can. Also try and build up good relations with the other factions in Italy, as well as Hungary as you do not want them to backstab you if you play Venice like i do.

The Pope

Do everything you can to make yourself the best loved faction fo the Pope. This greatly helps you out with wars against other catholic factions. Milan are likely to back stab you at some point, but maintain good garrisons in you settlements and let the ai attack them. This wa you beat up their army, they are the agressors, and will 9/10 times accept a ceasfire the next turn.

Byzantium

Once i've got myself quite secure in Italy, i go after the Byzantines. They field quite archer heavy armies, which can be a pain as Venice, but if you bring armoured sergeants, mailed kngihts, and your own archers along their armies should be no trouble. I plan my war against Byzantium in 2 parts.

1. Take Thessalonica, Corinth and Constantionple. Then build up my forces before
2. Taking the rest of their settlements, as well as Rhodes.

Once Byzantium is destroyed you should have enough provinces to be raking in the cash.

The Holy Land

What i like to do next, is use Constantionple, Cyprus and Rhodes as launch pads for Crusades to the Holy Land. This further extends your empire into provinces which can bring in a lot of cash, and also provides you with large armies for when the Mongols come.

Italy

All this time you will more than likely have been attacked in Italy. At first just beat them when they attack your cities then make peace. Later on try and capture a province from the factions that attack you every now and then. Then rebuild your standing with the Pope. This way you can slowly conquer Italy, whilst not getting ex-communicated.

The Mongols and Timurids

These 2 can be either a huge pain, or do nothing. Personally i plan based on the huge pain thing. Let them attack your cities, and beat them when they assault them. In open battles their horse archers and cavalry will beat you, even if you have got to Chivalric Knights and Menat arms by this point. Wear them down slowly using your fortresses.

End Game

You should already have quite a few of the 45 provinces needed for victory, and now you can do several things, or a combination of them.

1. Conquer the rest of the middle east and Egypt
2. The New World
3. Beat up some other Catholic factions to get the required provinces.

I hope this is helpful, even if it is a bit short.

[santelia]

Venice is a wonderful italian choice, but to really boost it the right way the right beginning strategy is the key. So, to grow fast and to easily conquer territories you have to pay attention to a couple of not so visible elements:

1) you are compelled to control narrow long territories, such as the eastern Adriatic coast, and narrow territories mean both difficulty in mantaining a quick reinforcement chain and frequent attacks on long exposed borders. Magyars, HRE and Byz could become annoying reasons to waste unwanted money to face their attacks time after time.

2) in the beginning Milan can be a quite ally, but if you really choose to ally with them and to forget them for many turns, you are in the meantime letting them build a strong economy and very dangerous armies. You risk to pay a lot, later, for such a lazy choice.

So, that's what I did:

Destroyed buildings in Durazzo and disbanded troops down there, to get an initial boost of money. Didn't care of losing the town. It will be so easy to take it again when needed lately in the game...

Build up a little but hard army in Venice, sent it with 3 spies to Genoa to open the gates, conquered the town and made a ransack. Got lot of money and strong happyness. Raised taxes. Build a harbour. Made a new little strong army in Venice. Same tactic used to Bologna, that already has a harbour. Next turn got Florence from rebels the same way. In the meantime Pope asked me just to take Florence, that I was already taking, and got some free troops as prize. Funny. Same tactic again to get Milan. The Milan remaining armies (only 3 and not so strong) became rebels the next turn, and they sadly faced my towns being beated with easy.

End of Milan faction. Northern Italy is mine.

Now spent some turns to build up my economy and enforce my armies and garrisons.

After a short body-building time, sent spies to Naples, followed by a strong army, all along the Adriatic western coast. Faced Sicilian king's army in the south and beated it 2 times, then finally arrived to the gates of Naples (opened the usual way) and conquered it. Usual ransack and usual lot of money and happyness.

Pope asked to take Rhodes from rebels, so I build up an army in Crete, sailed to Rhodes, put it on siege, and taken it after 1 turn. Another price from Pope. Great!

Then used few more turns to enforce economy all over my territories and to build up a strong army in Naples. When ready, sent usual spies to Palermo and taken it with the new army. Ransack, money and happiness the usual way. Sicilian faction is out. I am the owner of all Italy, and only have a precious tenant in Rome (the Pope!).

Now, it's time for greek territories (Corinthus, Thessalonica and Byzantium, plus my former town Durazzo).
I did it my way

Next move: Asia.

But the key of success is to be found in the beginning attack strategy.
In my way, I have the strongest economy of the campaign, and the best manageable territories, in a very smart blitzkrieg.

See you soon, mates!

[phoule]

Possible bug? Or feature of playing the "Merchant" civ...on turn 1, you can send your diplomat to pay HRE a visit at Bologna. Say hi, make a deal to swap maps, trade deal and alliance and then to top it off with a merchant strat BUY Bologna off HRE for 1000 florins for 6 turns, when the city is yours from the sale you'll get 5 Merc Xbows which can move on Florence in the same turn, then reinforce Bologna with some units from Venice, essentially laying claim to Bologna and Florence on turn 1 in addition to laying claim to Zagreb...then assault Florence as your first move and because of your size from the first turn Milan will be happy to pay you 1000 for at least 4 turns in exchange for an alliance, so you essentially end up paying 2000 florins for Bologna. Considering it pulls in a hefty 1200+ a turn in taxes it pays for itself very quickly. This was in a very hard campaign map...

Bug or Feature?

[CrusadeAgainstYourEnemies]

I started out very peacefully with Venice on VH/VH.

Traded Iraklion, Map Info and an Alliance to the Holy Roman Empire for Bologna.

Secured an Alliance with the Pope.

Did not move on Zagreb or Durazzo.

My only military move in the first 25 or so turns was to take Florence.

In the mean time I spent my time by teching up the economies of Florence, Bologna and Venice through farms/roads/markets/ports while supplying each with the means to defend itself through militia spears and crossbows.

I built cavalry in Ragusa. Brought the administrator to Venice and the Iraklion family member to Ragusa.

I allied with the French knowing full well I would eventually square off with the Milanese.

But the first act of war was the Sicilians. They were eliminated with relative ease as they were excommunicated and destroyed without a Crusade but with no Papal intervention either.

Next the Milanese decided to strike. I crusaded against Milan and quickly relieved the people of that nation of their two Italian cities. Now Venice resides over all of Italy, minus Rome, and Ragusa on the Greek coast.

My next move, where I'm in the middle of now, was an invasion of Greece. The goal for my initial half of the strategy is to secure Constantinople to Genoa whilst avoiding war in the West, setting up my economy and maintaining Papal favor.

The way I approach this game, as a Catholic faction on VH/VH, is always to appease then manipulate the Papacy.

I just took Thessalonica and Corinth, the next stop is Constantinople to control the trade of the entire map.

Once that is achieved, I will likely look to Hungary/Poland/Germany to further expand.

Don't get trapped into the idea that Venice needs to be played with the same ruthlessness and aggressiveness as the AI. It is possible and very effective to use your early military strength to stay at peace and develop a core of Venice, Bologna and Florence as the heart of your future Imperial economic structure.

[angie1313]

I started out very peacefully with Venice on VH/VH.

Traded Iraklion, Map Info and an Alliance to the Holy Roman Empire for Bologna.

Secured an Alliance with the Pope.

Did not move on Zagreb or Durazzo.

My only military move in the first 25 or so turns was to take Florence.

In the mean time I spent my time by teching up the economies of Florence, Bologna and Venice through farms/roads/markets/ports while supplying each with the means to defend itself through militia spears and crossbows.

I built cavalry in Ragusa. Brought the administrator to Venice and the Iraklion family member to Ragusa.

I allied with the French knowing full well I would eventually square off with the Milanese.

But the first act of war was the Sicilians. They were eliminated with relative ease as they were excommunicated and destroyed without a Crusade but with no Papal intervention either.

Next the Milanese decided to strike. I crusaded against Milan and quickly relieved the people of that nation of their two Italian cities. Now Venice resides over all of Italy, minus Rome, and Ragusa on the Greek coast.

My next move, where I'm in the middle of now, was an invasion of Greece. The goal for my initial half of the strategy is to secure Constantinople to Genoa whilst avoiding war in the West, setting up my economy and maintaining Papal favor.

The way I approach this game, as a Catholic faction on VH/VH, is always to appease then manipulate the Papacy.

I just took Thessalonica and Corinth, the next stop is Constantinople to control the trade of the entire map.

Once that is achieved, I will likely look to Hungary/Poland/Germany to further expand.

Don't get trapped into the idea that Venice needs to be played with the same ruthlessness and aggressiveness as the AI. It is possible and very effective to use your early military strength to stay at peace and develop a core of Venice, Bologna and Florence as the heart of your future Imperial economic structure.

Thats great advice to anyone who is listening. I made a few of those mistakes a number of times before I realized what I was doing wrong. Your thoughts on not being too aggressive is spot on.

[CrusadeAgainstYourEnemies]

Another thing:

The Byzantines were very strong in my game. Their generals are all 4+ Command Stars, with their family members usually around 6+ Command stars. They rolled with large, archer/heavy cavalry type armies.

I teched to Venetian archers too late as I was hell bent on getting a barracks in Ragusa/Palermo/Corinth for Venetian Heavy Infantry. If I could go back I would've mixed in the archery ranges as well to get the Venetian Archers, great units.

Bring lots of Priests to Byzantium. I got many Cardinals from spreading the faith not to mention only one family member ended up with a Pagan Magician in his entourage. Furthermore, Priests help with assimilation of conquered cities with different religions as most of you already know.

One question for any of you Venetian Veterans: Why is the blood-line of Venice so screwed up? I keep getting horrible traits for my coming of age Generals. I've killed off at least 5 neophyte Generals because their traits were horrible.

[Michael333]

When I use Venice, I always focus on invading east and fight Hungarian and Byzantine troops quickly and as soon as possible. I think that Venice and Milan are really similar. They have the classic Italian militia/spearmen the only differences are the venetian archers and heavy infantry. I usually don't start to prepare an invasion of Italy and never attack the HRE early.

[TinCow]

I have played two VH/VH campaigns as Venice now. I lost the first and am doing reasonably well on the second. I will describe my errors in the first, the change of strategy that allowed me to survive in the second, and general advice.

First campaign:
I grabbed Zagreb and Durazzo almost instantly, with Florence and Rhodes following shortly. I made alliances with everyone I could and was raking in money. Unfortunately, my military forces were relatively minimal, with the only sizable force capable of taking the field located near Venice. Hungary and Byzantium allied and both declared war and besieged Zagreb and Durazzo respectively on the same turn. Both stacks were massive and I had no chance of defeating the assaults. I sent my large army from Venice to try and help Zagreb. Both cities fell the next turn, before my relief army could arrive. With the main force diverted to the east, Milan (my allies) declared war and besieged Florence. Hungary also moved on Ragusa. I turned the army back around made for Florence, but it too fell before I could get down to help it. HRE then declared war, defeated my main stack and took Venice. I had managed to assemble a large force on Crete and could have attempted to invade Greece and survive that way, but instead I declared defeat and started over.

Second campaign:
Took Zagreb and did as one of the previous posters advised: took Durazzo for mission money and then abandoned it. I focused spending on military development in Ragusa and Venice, with the aim of being able to fight offensively in Northern Italy and defensively behind the walls of Ragusa. As before, Hungary and Byzantium declared war and attacked Zagreb and Durazzo. However, since Durazzo was rebel, I was not at war with Byzantium. Zagreb fell and I did not try to retake it.

Despite many alliances, I soon found myself at war with Milan, Sicily and HRE. I focused everything I had at military buildup around Venice/Florence while building defenses and archers for Ragusa. I stayed on the defense in Italy until Milan and Sicily got excommunicated for repeatedly attacking me. I then managed to grab Bologna (Sicily had taken it from HRE). With Venice, Bologna and Florence all controlled by me and close to one another, I was able to out-produce Milan and took Milan and Genoa after many battles of attrition. During this time Ragusa had been attacked several times by Hungary, but strong defenses and the ferrying of troops and generals across the water by boat helped preserve it.

When Northern Italy was secured, I built up a large force, including catapults, and took the war to the Sicilians. Following the capture of Palermo, I then took Corsica and Sardinia, making all of Italy my own. By this point, I was no longer in danger of imminent destruction. I then focused on economic development and border defense for a long time.


General Comments:

Territories - You start with very widely dispersed territories. Your cities will all have to be self-reliant at the beginning of the game. This may mean giving up Zagreb and Durazzo as I did. However, there are FIVE cities very close to one another in Norther Italy. This is a major power base and should be your first objective. I would even say you could lose all other provinces and still be ok, as long as you were able to expand in Northern Italy. Once you have those 5 in your pocket, you will be in good shape.

Militia units - Venices militia are very good. Italian Spear Militia and Pavise Crossbow Militia in particular are excellent. At higher development levels, you can get a militia cavalry unit as well. On top of that, the town hall line of buildings gives you a morale boosting unit that can also fight decently when things are desperate. With all of these units, and the ability to produce siege engines, you do not even need castles to become a military power. Given that all 5 Northern Italy settlements are cities (and you want to keep them as cities for trade), this is important. I highly urge fielding armies that are based on these units. You can go most of the early game with them just fine.

Use the Carrocio Standard! (or whatever the morale boosting city hall unit is called) The morale boost is noticable and will keep your Italian Spear Militia line holding significantly longer. While they are expensive to recruit (about 750 if I remember correctly), they have a very low maintinance (about 50 I think), so they will not cost you much in the long run. They are entirely decent fighters too, and can make the difference in a battle if it is hanging by a thread. Just tell them to drop the standard and attack like normal infantry. I always keep one of these in every city and in every major army.

If you lose Ragusa, perhaps consider converting one of the Northern Italy cities to a castle. Otherwise, I believe it is in your best long-term interests to keep them all as cities.

Castle units - After you control Italy, you will want to develop your castles though. Palermo, Ragusa, and either Corsica or Sardinia should be more than enough to keep you supplied with castle troops until you take a mainland castle from HRE. Once Italy is secured, I highly urge you to hold your borders and develop your cities. It takes a while to get decent units out of Venices castles, but when you get there it is worth it. Venetian Archers, Dismounted Men at Arms, and Venetian Heavy Infantry are excellent units. Venetian Archers may even have a run at Longbowmen for one of the best archer units. They are particularly excellent for siege defense, since they have long range arrows, good defense, and can fight off anything but heavy infantry in melee. This is an archer unit that you can place in front of in-coming ladders and siege towers. When they run out of arrows, use them as an additional infantry unit.

Crete/Rhodes - Crete is an excellent outpost territory. Use milita from there to take Rhodes, which you can develop either as a city or castle, depending on your desire. Crete and Rhodes will be constantly blockaded during wars, but I have not yet seen the AI attempt naval invasions of them. They are the perfect spots from which to launch Crusades, allowing you access to Asia Minor instantly by ship, or a direct landing in the Holy Land within 2 turns of sailing. If you start your Crusades from these islands, no one will ever beat you to the objective.

Venice Defense - Defend the bridge! Thats right... that huge bridge that is the only access to Venice. If you can hold there, great, do it. Even if you cannot, hold there for a little while, shooting them up with your crossbowmen as they come across, then withdraw into the city. It is technically a battle loss, but you will have inflicted large casualties by crossbow for the loss of a unit or two of spear militia. A worthwhile trade IMO.

Pope - Keep on the Popes good side. Let everyone else get excommunicated by attacking you. Always do what the Pope asks. When the Papacy is low on money, gift money to them, particularly in tribute. They will love you and you will probably be able to get an alliance with them. Since you will be fighting in Italy a lot, you can sometimes get Allied Papal forces to fight with you. This means auto-excommunication for your enemy!

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

I thought i would post my experience and lessons from my campaign with Venice. although reading the post above, a lot of what i have learn is there.

Venice is in a great location and ironicaly in between a rock and hard place. that being in between alot of cathlic factions and also on the cusp of the muslim world. The Trick is to get a solid base of operations first, using ities spears and crossbows, both units will hold you under pretty heavy attack if you can keep them focused on strong points. garrison well, and after the rebel land grabs pass, work on your getting 5 cities and the two island castles if you can to the south west. this should give you both the ways and the emans to make money and work on your armies.

it is most important to do things big with venice, if your going to get merchants get lots of them and make sure you don't let others in, same goes for spies, preist and assassin, i have an army of spies, preist and assassins roaming around esp. in front of my armies... this was something i didnt do very well for a while.


* tip Pavise Crossbow Militia work very well in open ground when stagged and skirmishing, if possible aim at the units at the back of the incoming units it causes a large numbers of kills. ities spears can hold any local factions inf at the start of the game.

*tip theres alot of rolling hills around, if you can attack from the hill tops.

rhodes and the other island are great for trading and for staging a naval base. i have one castle and one city, to allow for strong riads into turkey or the holy lands.

wait for the excummincations for milan and sicily , they will attack you and them take all the settlements you can in 2 or 3 moves, i wiped out mailan and sicily in 4 turns each...

after sicily you should have great castles ready to mass produce Venetian Archers, Dismounted Men at Arms, and Venetian Heavy Infantry, as they leave alot of the other units in the area lacking....

take your time with venice and you will prove to be a very strong faction...

[santelia]

One of the best features of venician troops is the killer pavise crossbow militia. Not at the top like the Genoese one (14 shot stat), but very effective (12) for the cost.

Always get at least 4 of them in your army, better if you can get 6.
Play battles instead of making them resolve automatically.

Put your pavise crossbows in the front position, let the enemy army come at your range, walk few steps forward and target the heaviest enemy troops you can find.
The AI rest bug let you shoot your deadly arrows as a killing machine while the enemy troops stay there and die man after man without attacking.
This way you can destroy the heaviest enemy units (heavy melee inf, heavy cav) and the general unit too, before your arrows end.
Enemy archers and crossbows, if any, in the meantime target your most forefront units, that in this case are just your pavise crossbows. Due to their pavise, your crossbows stay completely safe while reloading, and only have the risk to take minor losses when firing.
Bafore you suffer consistent losses (30-50%) with your pavise crossbow units, they will be able to reduce at 20% 1 enemy heavy unit each 1.2 units of your pavise crossbows. Take 6 of them and you'll be able of destroy 5 enemy heavy troops.

Pay attention that your pavise crossbows must always have free sight to the targeted enemy unit, just to be effective and deadly. If they don't have free sight to the target, they use a parabolic shot that results in quite no damages at all for the enemy. That's correct, since crossbow arrows are short and thick and are designed to be effective only with a straight fire.

[R'as al Ghul]

I'd like to contribute my own observations from my 3 Venice campaigns. They are the only faction I've played in campaign yet, but, as they weren't in MTW 1, I found them to be exceptionally interesting and challenging. I guess the same can be said for Milan but I've not played them yet.
My first two campaigns I had to abort due to mistakes on my side. When wrong diplomatic decisions, wars with neighbours and abysmal relations with the pope plus excommunication and the plague all came together at one time, I resigned. But I've learned playing the game and Venice that way. The third campaign is around turn 160 atm and I'm doing very well.

Where to expand?
As others have stated and becomes obvious when you look at your realm, you're surrounded. Even worse, most of your neighbours and soon to be enemies can reach your capital in one turn. Especially Milan and the HRE but also Sicily will eventually try to seize it. I've not had the initial conflicts with the Byzantines and Hungarians as others describe. I guess one reason is that I didn't take Zagreb. The Hungarians and Byzantines are very often Allies after turn 1 or 2. It seems that the Hungarians have the mission to take Zagreb (I've the theory that the AI also gets missions from the "Council of Nobles" like the player, this explains part of the AI's moves) and whether you or the rebels own that settlement makes little difference to them. Let them have it and instead of fighting the Hungarians negotiate trade rights asap. BTW, Zagreb isn't making much money anyway and is landlocked.
I did however take Durazzo (you can wait for the mission to get extra cash or units) and most importantly Florence. I'd try to get Florence on turn two before anybody else gets there. You'll need the income of that city and it provides a jumppoint to the isles of Corsica and Sardinia which you can take later on. Another easy expansion is Rhodes but again, you can wait for the mission, it takes time before others get interested. You can get to Rhodes from Iraklion in one turn and you need about 5-6 Militia units to capture it. I'd recommend thinking about making Rhodes a city as I've not build a single castle unit in that place for the whole 3 campaigns. Your future castle in that area will be Corinth which is always undergarrisoned. But try to wait till you enter a war with Byzanz, a couple of turns into the game and their attention will shift eastward. Try to negotiate for trade rights, too.
So, the initial turns should be devoted to get Florence, Durazzo and Rhodes. Corsica and Sardinia are next and I'd make them cities, too. (The plan for later is to have these castles: Ragusa, Corinth, Palermo and Innsbruck.)
You should now consider how it is feasible to seize the other Italian cities Genoa & Milan, Bologna and Naples & Palermo. Chances are that Sicily will try to claim Florence (the mission thing again). Let them lay siege and wait for the Pope's reaction. If they attack you can esily repel them with your militia force. If the Sicilians get excommunicated - attack and try to destroy them by taking their two cities. The same strategy is recommended with the other neighbours. Milan is very aggressive and the HRE always short of being excommunicated. If you play it wise you can do the pope a favour by expanding to their territory. Be careful, though, it may take longer than you expect.
If you manage to take Italy except Rome you're bound to become filthy rich but you need to make sure that you've trading partners. France has been my ally for 150 turns or more, as have the Papal states. The Hungarians are undecided between war and alliance but have been trading partners for quite some time.
Further conquest depends on the situation but Byzant's greek possessions are yours for the taking once you can muster an army that's not needed to defend your Italian provinces.
If the HRE gets into trouble or is excommunicated take their castles of Innsbruck and Bern.

Economy
North Italy is a powerhouse of trade. See to it that you build the structures to support the economy and get the most out of it. You'll have trouble to upgrade your cities all at a time but make sure that public order is taken care off by building the barracks line and the mayor's buildings. Siege workshops etc. aren't that important and can be delayed.

Diplomacy
This is the most important part of the game I've come to realise. It's a major difference to the previous titles and I really enjoy it. Keeping good relations with the pope is the most important thing, after all he's your neighbour. Also you can't get rid of him in any way, he'll haunt you from exile if you take Rome and you most probably won't be able to repair the damaged relations. I've even had my King die and wasn't reconciled.
To be on the Pope's good side you need to know what makes him happy.
First of all, I offered him Trade rights and an alliance very early. He accepted and we're allies for 160 turns or more now. That's a good start but won't help you through the game. The difficult task is to keep it that way. I've made it a a habit to drop by every other turn and offer him my map info (if I have something new) as a gift. Sometimes he'll decline and even insist to pay you for it. Additionally he'll keep track of your doings and if he thinks that you're not a good catholic your pope-o-meter value will fall. So, don't attack your christian brothers before they do, defend yourself and wait for them to be excommunicated. Train a lot of Priests and send them to the Byzantine Orthodox region, to North Africa and to the borders between Moors and Spain. By converting and fighting Heretics you'll quickly gain Piety points and have your Priests promoted to Cardinals and finally to the College of Cardinals. try to have at least three Cardinals in the College to influence the Papal votings which can happen very suddenly even if the Pope is still young. Be prepared. It's absolute legitimate to send assassins to the other Cardinals to make room in the College for your own. Select the enemy Cardinals on the College scroll to learn their position on the map.
Apart from the dealings with the Pope you need to stay in touch with your allies and trade partners. Make them small gifts to maintain good relations. Seize opportunities to fight together with them. A good way is to attack a fleet when the Pope's fleet is near it and you're allied with him.
All your neighbours will sooner or later send a bunch of Assassins and Spies to your cities, even if they're neutral. Keep a spy in each of your towns and train your assassins on the never stopping flow of foreign agents. Escpecially the Hungarians and the HRE have swarmed me with agents.


Military
Military wise, as was already said, you can pretty much rely on your city troops. I've fought for at least fifty turns with nothing else but Militia. Italian Spear Militia and Pavise XBow Militia. Later you can add Cavalry Militia, Broken Lances etc....The castle units are excellent once you get them, but after taking Palermo or Corinth that won't be a problem. Shipping troops over from Ragusa to Venice is very quick. BTW, it is absolutely necessary to build a strong fleet. Try to tech up to War galleys asap and build stacks of three. Make use of the chokepoints at Durazzo and Palermo to keep enemy fleets out of your territory. Iraklion should be able to build at least war galleys if you want to survive the naval battle with the Byz empire which will come eventually.

I hope I've inspired the one or other to try this faction. It's really fun if you add some roleplay elements to it and try to stay on the good side of the Pope. Right now most of my Generals have lots of vices and very low piety but my pope-o-meter just maxed out after building the second cathedral.

[Sharpy]

First campaign:
I grabbed Zagreb and Durazzo almost instantly, with Florence and Rhodes following shortly. I made alliances with everyone I could and was raking in money. Unfortunately, my military forces were relatively minimal, with the only sizable force capable of taking the field located near Venice. Hungary and Byzantium allied and both declared war and besieged Zagreb and Durazzo respectively on the same turn. Both stacks were massive and I had no chance of defeating the assaults. I sent my large army from Venice to try and help Zagreb. Both cities fell the next turn, before my relief army could arrive. With the main force diverted to the east, Milan (my allies) declared war and besieged Florence. Hungary also moved on Ragusa. I turned the army back around made for Florence, but it too fell before I could get down to help it. HRE then declared war, defeated my main stack and took Venice. I had managed to assemble a large force on Crete and could have attempted to invade Greece and survive that way, but instead I declared defeat and started over.

I lost my first campaign in very similar circumstances. To avoid a repeat, I did two things; Firstly, I reigned in my conquest of Rhodes till later in the game, concentrating on consolidating the Adriatic first (the Hungarians WILL attack if you look weak). I also converted Duosso into a castle to stop it revolting and to free up units.

Second, I took out Milan immediately. It took about 10 turns and allowed me to focus on Bologna, Florence and Sicily without having to worry about Milanese armies. From that point, winning the game was a foregone conclusion.

[frogbeastegg]

This is not the place to talk about bugs. Do that in the Citadel.

[Alexander: The hellenic empire]

I am currently playing a the Venicians and I am having a lot of trouble with the Mongols who are blasting down through Europe. I have been successful in defending my castles with archery but cannot match their missile cavalry in field battles. Does anyone have any advice for defeating the Mongols.

Thanks,

I have also found out that getting hold of the new continent is not as easy as it seems. Any advice for this would be great.

I hope I'm not asking for too much.

I also hope you are having as much fun as me while playing, most probably, the best game ever.

[Il Duce]

Here's my strategy (or what I have been doing for the last 50 turns):

1)Establish a strong trade economy with your neighbors quickly--especially with your Italian buddies...establish alliances with them to keep a period of peace on the peninsula; while you're at it, send out diplomats to secure your relationship with the more powerful nations like Byzantium...this will ensure that you will have at least 30 or so turns before you start getting harassed by them

2)Take over the rebel provinces--in the order of: Florence, Durazzo, Zagreb, Rhodes...Florence and Durazzo are the most important ones.

3)Send out several merchants to monopolize the resources in your peninsula.

4)Once you have a sizeable income, start building your army with more expensive units...also you should now have some cavalry units that you got as a gift from your council of nobles if you've taken some of the rebel states.

5)After building a sizeable army, take them over to Genova and kick some ass...in my case it was just some Milanese general there so it was easy...

6)Establish order in the new city, then march your guys over to Milan and burn that to the ground.

...that's as far as I've gotten...Milan has been pushed back further north and I have control over parts of the northern mediterranean and the alpine provinces...I plan to conquer the Sicilians and control the peninsula...after that, I don't know where I should go...the Byzantines and their cavalry archers are pesky to deal with (especially with a militia-heavy army) and HRE is still a bit too powerful for me to deal with...it'd be nice if i can monopolize the entire mediterranean...

[Lobosolitario]

I found the Papal states to be of great use in this campaign (as with any catholic faction). When playing catholics I tend to get an alliance and military access both ways with the Papal states ASAP. It's fairly easy to keep in the Pope's good books after this, by building churches and priests whenever possible, which is good for morale as well, and self-reinforcing, as it improves your chances to control the Papal elections (so far in every game I've played, every Pope after the first one has been from my faction) thus keeping Popes favorable to you in power. Step two of makes you even more popular with the Pope.

When I find myself in a difficult region, with multiple factions bordering me, leading to strained relations and possible military engagements I'd rather avoid, I use the Papal states to create a buffer state. The Pope has always been a great neighbour, with the aforementioned treaties I've never had to worry about Papal armies in the slightest, indeed they've helped me out more than once. This also makes living with the other factions a lot easier, as they're happy to ally and trade with you as long as there are no border clashes, and they're loath to attack the Papal states regions, or to send troops across them. And if they're not catholic, or are sufficiently angry at the Pope to attack, then you have an excuse to launch a crusade against them, restoring the buffer state, and knocking them down a few pegs in the process. If the buffer zone becomes more of a hinderance than a shield, just send troops through to attack the regions on the other side of it with relative impunity. I have Papal states regions dotted throughout my empire, with no problems at all. The only downside is having to follow the basic Papal mandates, so you may not always be able to attack the catholic regions you'd like to. Still, you can generally manoeuvre other rulers into getting themselves excommunicated, take their provinces through diplomacy, or wait for them to otherwise make a mistake. Failing this, spies and a good army mean you can take a city faster than you can be excommunicated, as many people have already pointed out on the forums.

On to Venice.

With Venice, pretexts to fight other catholic rulers aren't much of an issue outside of the Italian peninsula. I decided to focus on the Mediterranean, and develop as a naval and trade power. My main early goal was to expand along the coast to Constantinople, thus ensuring that my main enemies were orthodox or rebels. I also grabbed Florence, sending an army through the Empire territories to do so, in order to keep a favorable power balance in Italy.
To the north of Greece, Zagreb and Sofia can be gifted to the Papal states in order to create a massive buffer zone protecting you from interference by Hungary and the Empire in all of the region. I held onto Zagreb, as it's my only castle in the area, not wanting to sacrifice any of the coastal provinces for this task. This caused a lot of headaches with both the Empire and Hungary, eventually leading to a short vicious war which could probably have been avoided, and has benefitted me very little, as I still haven't had much use from the Zagreb troops. I engaged in extensive diplomacy in the opening turns in Italy, gaining alliances with all the local factions bar the Empire, although only the Papal states had a full military access agreement with me. A possible early move would be to buy Bologna (from memory, may actually be a different region, the region directly south of Venice) from the Empire before it is built up too much, as this would save a lot of friction. I didn't manage this either, another cause of the later war. Still, intensive diplomacy managed to keep northern Italy in an uneasy peace until I had conquered Constantinople, reduced the Byzantine empire to a handful of far flung colonies and gifted Nicaea to the Pope, giving me a buffer from the Turks.
Around this time, Milan betrayed our alliance, and started a pointless blockade on Florence. Their land armies didn't press the advantage, and I was able to snatch both Genoa and Milan (with the help of a good spy) from them in one turn, placing them firmly on the back foot. I consolidated this advantage by quickly pushing forward to Marseille, which became my western Papal states buffer, keeping Milan, France and Spain out of my affairs. Now separated from me by this new buffer state, the Milanese were quick to agree to a ceasefire, which lasted until I had a force in place to take over their island holdings, reducing them to a land power. This damaged my standing a fair bit with the other factions, and noone trusts me any more, but since I'm ranked first across the board, it's not much of an issue.
With east and west secured for the time being, I turned my attention north. Abysmal relations with the Empire (which now had both Milan and Hungary as vassals, thus taking up 100% of my northern border) had deteriorated into open war after the Milan crisis, a few clumsy bribe attempts on Bologna and finally, a failed assassination attempt on an Imperial family member (who was sitting a few miles from Milan with a decent sized army). I took advantage of the opening turns to smash Bologna with three armies from Florence, Genoa and Venice, and then sat back to defend my northern border. Not long after, the Emperor had been excommunicated, and I was able to call a crusade on a city deep in the middle of Imperial territory. In this short but nasty war the Empire lost around three-four stacks of troops, and the regions of Innsbruck, Vienna, Budapest (the last remaining Hungarian region), and I lost two stacks of my own. When the dust settled, however, I had a solid Papal border consisting of Marseille-Innsbruck-Vienna-Budapest-Sofia cutting me off from the whole of catholic Europe. The two Imperial territories I took beyond this buffer I gifted to Scotland and Spain, improving relations with them dramatically, as well as making northern Europe even more chaotic.
Since that war, the only catholic opponent I have had has been Sicily, who I have methodically ousted from Italy, Sicily and northern Africa as I attempt to dominate the mediterranean. Progress is slow, as the Pope doesn't approve, but city by city the Sicilians are being wiped out, and Papal relations are good due to all the huge cathedrals being built with the mediterranean riches.
Now my attention has been drawn back to the east, with the turks warring on the Pope in Nicaea, I went to his rescue, and met the Mongols coming the other way. Currently I am bogged down in a massive war of attrition in Turkey as I wear down the Mongols and their damned full silver chevron starting armies. One full stack of my troops can just about defeat one of theirs in the open (medium difficulty), which seems a good deal, as mine are raw recruits, and therefore limitless, and theirs are elites, and therefore limited. So far this is the only serious military opposition I've faced in the campaign, and I'm enjoying it, or at least I was up until, after a long and arduous siege battle where I managed to fight off a full stack of Mongols with a half stack of mercenaries and cavalry militia, the game promptly crashed as they tried to withdraw through a mountain :/

Future targets are to gain the upper hand against the Mongols, and spread along the eastern and southern Mediterranean. After that Russia is a good source of non-catholic provinces, or I hope to opportunistically pick Europe apart with crusades as various faction leaders fall out with the Pope, in order to complete my region quota. Or perhaps a few ships from Venice can set sail to America, once it becomes available.

Militarily I haven't got much advice to give. I'm still working out the ins-and-outs of the Venetian units, which are quite specialised. Pike militia have performed well, holding Mongol full silver chevron units far longer than my other units (my cavalry invariably vanishes under a pile of light horse, and dies to a man). Musketeers have shown promise in the first battle I fought with them. The army was decimated, but the muskets caused some serious damage before it happened, and I look forward to seeing them defending castle walls. Venetian heavy infantry give a good account of themselves, and work well with the pike militia, although I preferred dismounted knights for the flanks, due to their morale bonuses. The heavy infantry performed much better against cavalry though, the knights tend to get massacred if caught out by cavalry units. A half hexagon in a wooded area, with pikes on the front, supported by heavy infantry, knights and a carroccio, and with decent ranged and cavalry support (so far my default army is 5 pike, 2 heavy, 2 knights, 1 carroccio, 5 ranged, 5 cavalry) performs pretty well against the mongols. I tend to lose a lot of the ranged support and cavalry, the first because I prefer to sacrifice them rather than risk the integrity of the pike wall, and the second because I hit any weak spot I can see with the cavalry until the enemy routs or the cavalry are all dead (and since the mongols are so damned tough, even archers can absorb a charge, and give back a fair bit of punishment, so the cavalry tends to get steadily chewed up). Still, at the end of the battle, the mongols have taken heavier and more valuable losses. On hard/very hard this will probably not be possible though, as it's a pretty close battle on medium.

-Lobo

Congratulations on maintaining such a great forum by the way, the Org has been my first stop for TW information since Rome, and I wish I'd known about it when I had Shogun. I've never got round to posting before, but I figured it was about time I gave something back ;)

[XiahouPing]

I've noticed in my 2 campaigns as Venice, as soon as one faction attacks you, another 2 or 3 will jump on the bandwagon next turn, even if you have had alliances with them and whatnot. Make sure you have enough power to push the enemies back. Just thought I would point it out to the people who are thinking of playing Venice. :)

[Owen Glyndwr]

idk if ythis is a little off-topic or anything, but how do you make the merchants better. Even with a master merchant's guild, my merchants get wiped out 2 or 3 turns after i make them. It's really frustrating to me.

[oz_wwjd]

yeah I've just about given up using them cause there's a swarm of HRE and Milan merchants roaming around,and as soon as I produce a merchant they follow it until they catch up with it and exterminate it,so any help on how to aviod this would be appreciated.On another point is having a castle neccesary? So far I've defended my cities nicely with Italian Mitilia and Italian Pavise crossbowmen mitilia,with a few calvary units thrown in for good measure

[Nepereta]

the venetian archers and infantry are very respectable units. Well worth producing the infantry at least. For cavalry my suggestion is go on the crusades and get a chapter house.

[Vladimir]

Just playing around I came across what I call the Pentagram Opening. Forsaking everything else buy Bologna, launch simultaneous attacks on Milan and Genoa (after paying the Pope a visit), then Siege Florence. Your Dodge and faction heir should each lead an army which can easily take both cities, wiping the faction out. Then take the Dodge on a fort building spree, closing off passes and dropping a garrison unit there, while letting your heir await the Florentine sally.

During this phase you should be awarded with largest army, most wealthy, and most advanced civilization titles in the first 10 turns. After that just specialize/convert your cities as you see fit. No where else on the map, not even the Holy Land, is there such a great opportunity for such an amazing start.

[Captain Poppy]

Greetings dear friends and servants of the Queen of the Adriatic.

I've just finished one VH/VH long campaign as Venice.

My advice for a good start would be:

1) Buy Bologna at turn 1 (costs around 5000/6000fl)
2) Send a diplomat to the Pope right away to get an alliance and give the Pope-o-Meter a boost any time you have the means to (Florins and/or map info and/or settlements you can't afford to keep atm).
3) Prepare 2 stacks of armies to siege Milan and Genoa in a short campaign, in order to minimize the rep hit with the Papal state.
Wiping out Milan faction should be your the first objective, letting them live makes them become every turn a bigger threat.
4) Grab with your remaining forces all rebel settlements you can, listed by order of importance: Florence, Ajaccio, Cagliari, Durazzo.
5) Give Durrazzo to the Pope if the Byzantines show up in the area with a stack of armies. (This will prevent early war with them and allow you to be able to defend against HRE in the meantime).
6) Try to secure an alliance with Hungary.
7) Take care of Sicily the same way you did with Milan (1 stack per settlement, blitz style).
8) Be prepared to defend Zagreb from heavy HRE assaults.

You should then now own all Italy and have a quite nice Florins income allowing you from this point to continue on the campaign in whatever direction you fancy.

My advice for continuing the game would be:

1) Take every Mediterranean island if possible.
3) Don't seek to expand to the East too far for Mongols and later on Timurids will show up and will turn your investments in a loss. Using the same strategy than the one to defend Zagreb should be used in Constantinople that should be considered as a "Frontier city" filled with full stack or armies).
2) Build up solid and consistent fleets. (Each fleet has a max range/per turn then each of your fleets should touch the max range of the next to it in order to be able to intercept every single enemy fleet that dares enter your waters).
3) Seek to "Envelop" the Mediterranean see to create new trade routes between your settlements and boost even more your income. Coastal settlements all around the see should be of interest for you (Exception made for Middle East).
5) Don't try to keep and hold inland settlements unless necessary, they will cost you more to defend than what they will reward you. For example create safe borders to the North by creating "buffer zones" by seizing inland settlements and handing them to the Pope.
6) When you'll be invading the Iberian Peninsula, use the blitz method. The settlements are far away from each other. Beginning the invasion without sufficient backup will make the campaign last much longer than it should.
7) Try to obtain an University asap for the "World is round" event is triggered by the construction of the first one. This will allow you to send and expedition early on and able you to use Venice famous merchants at their best (one experimented merchant on Tobacco or Cocoa resources will reward you thousands of Florins each turn).
8) Have fun.

[Vladimir]

Any advice on playing VH/VH? I’m attempting to play a game focusing on northern Italy and I want the Venetian heavy infantry more than the Genoese pavaise crossbowmen. Is the best way to secure the 5 cities in the north, turning one of them to a castle, and withdrawing all your troops to Italy? I’ve also found naval battle to be a pain. Venice was famed for their galley production but they don’t fare to well in combat.

[trickydicky]

Any advice on playing VH/VH? I’m attempting to play a game focusing on northern Italy and I want the Venetian heavy infantry more than the Genoese pavaise crossbowmen. Is the best way to secure the 5 cities in the north, turning one of them to a castle, and withdrawing all your troops to Italy? I’ve also found naval battle to be a pain. Venice was famed for their galley production but they don’t fare to well in combat.

I'm playing the same setup at the moment, I blitzed the northern provinces, and then turned Bologna into a castle. This then pretty quickly provides you with your Venetian Heavy Infantry

I also as you suggested pulled all of my troops back into Italy proper, and then took the war to the Sicilians. This then gives you another Venetian Heavy Infantry factory to the south (In Pamplona). Putting you in prime position to produce troops north and south. One for your conquest of Europe, and one for Africa.

On a side note Venetian Heavy Infantry rock!

[Jammer]

In connection with Vladimir's Pentagram Opening, here's a few considerations;

Consolidating northern Italy means facing a choice. Do you want to get excommunicated or not? Many players don't care, some do. So these tips are for those that do NOT want to peeve the Pope.

Like others have said, BUY Bologna. First turn, ally with Germany and agree to 1000 florins per turn for 6 turns. Emperor Kraut-eater exits and leaves 6 units of merc xbows.

Use the mercenary crossbowmen to immediately seige Florence!

Then build to the point where you're ready to SIMULTANEOUSLY seige Milan and Genoa. Don't wait too long or those dirty Milanese will take Bern or something. The key is to eliminate them in one stroke and prevent any Papal warning. I seiged on turn 6 and finished the job on turn 7. Done and done.

As a side note, the small force at Iraklion is able to lightning strike Corinth right off the bat. This strategy combined with the No-Excom-Pentagram is perfect for a Venetian short campaign.

Happy killing!

[Vladimir]

In 1.2 the map is small enough that you can form an alliance with and gift the Pope enough that a simultaneous attack on Milan's two cities that you'll only get a warning. Being his ally AND the most powerful nation in Europe reigns in his displeasure. Teh blizt is easy but it's VH/VH right?

[PuppetMaster]

My last campaign as Venice turned out to be really good. I attacked Milan and defeated them very early on, then moved on Florence and Bologna. From there it was a cake walk, and a crusade on top of upgrades in markets and sea trade buildings had me ridiculously rich. From there I took Sicily, and it was into the Balkans from there.


Btw I took Zagreb next, and that city can be a cash cow if you build it up correctly.

[Quintus.JC]

Venice has a superior militia and also a very good army. I tried to unify Italy right from the start but that got me excommunated with the pope. after a while i was reconsilated again and had been the pope's favourite ever since, never made aggression with a Catholic nation (though they did to me), build churches and joined crusades. after Italian unification i want west into Byzantium, after conquering them i waited for the mongol invasion the lauched a large scale invasion into Asia.