How to Attract Guilds

[Daveybaby]

From perusing the contents of export_descr_guilds.txt i have determined the following:

Each guild type has 3 levels, to get a guild at each level the player has to score a certain number of points for either their faction overall, or for that particular settlement.

Guild: 100 points
Masters Guild: 250 points
Guild HQ: 500 points

The player gains (and loses) points for each guild for each settlement, and for their entire faction, by performing certain deeds. In general, settlements will gain more per deed (typically 10-30 points) than the overall faction score (typically 1-5 points per deed).

Not sure how the overall faction score works, presumably if your overall faction score exceeds the required amount you will get offered a guild even if none of your individual settlements qualify - thus you can still get guilds by, say, training lots of priests all over the place - but it will still be far quicker if you train them all in the same settlement.

Agents can also gain points. Assume that this is once per agent, and that these points add to the overall faction score. Edit: hmmm... this may refer to achievements rather than agents.

Edit: According to work done by Kobal2fr it looks probable that all scores are added to each settlement, or at least the settlement and overall faction scores are (dont know about the agent stuff yet).

Edit: Eldon made the observation that the three tags in export_descr_guilds.txt refer to the specific settlement, other settlements, and all settlements, respectively. This makes a whole lot more sense than the whole the whole faction and agent scores i came up with, so i've edited the stuff below to reflect this.

In summary, points are gained for:
1. The specific settlement where the event occurred.
2. All settlements other than where the event occurred (usually a smaller number of points).
3. All settlements regardless of where the event occurred.

General
Upgrade a guild (+20 settlement bonus for that guild type, +10 to other settlements)
Destroy a guild building (huge penalty for that guild type, -100 settlement, -20 others)
Upgrade a settlement (+10 settlement bonus for all guild types)
Every 25 turns every settlement loses 1 point for all guilds (or 1 point every turn after turn 25?)

Missions
Bonuses are also given for successfully completing a guild mission, but failing to complete the guild mission will incur a penalty for that guild type.

The following guilds offer missions:
Assassin's/Hashashim's Guild
Merchant's Guild
Explorer's Guild
Theologian's Guild
Thieves Guild

Assassin's/Hashashim's Guild
Train assassin/hashashim: +10 settlement
Successful Assassinations: +20 all settlements
Governor with dread >4: +4 settlement bonus (per turn?)
Build brothel series buildings: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/0/2/5 others
Succeed/Fail guild mission: +/-10 all settlements

Alchemist's Guild
Train Cannons etc: +10/15/20 settlement
Train handgunners etc: +15 settlement
Build cannon maker series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +1/2/3/4/5 others

Explorer's Guild
Train merchants: +10 settlement
Build shipbuilding buildings: +15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/2/5 others
Build merchants wharf series: +20/25/30 settlement, +0/2/5 others
Fleet distance from capital 50-99: +3 all settlements
Fleet distance from capital >100 : +5 all settlements
Succeed/Fail Explorer guild mission: +/-30 all settlements

Horse Breeder's Guild
Train cavalry: +10 settlement, +1 others
Build stables series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +1/2/3/4/5 others
Build racetrack/sultan's ractrack +50/75 settlement, +5 others
Governor throws races: +5 settlement

Mason's Guild
Build Stone wall series: +10/15/20 settlement, +2/2/3 others
Build mustering halls series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +2/2/2/2/3 others
Build town watch series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement +2/2/2/2/3 others
Build armourer series: +10/15/15/20/25/30 settlement +2/2/2/2/2/3 others
Build bowyer series: +10/15/20/30 settlement +2/2/2/3 others

Merchant's Guild
Train merchants: +10 settlement
Build merchants wharf series: +20/25/30 settlement, +0/2/5 others
Build market series: +10/15/20/25 settlement, +0/0/2/5 others
Make trade agreement: +10 all settlements
Successful aquisition: +10 all settlements
Income > 1000/2000/5000/10000: +1/2/3/4 all settlements(per turn?)
Succeed/Fail merchant's guild mission: +/- 10/20 all settlements (depending on difficulty?)

Swordsmith's Guild
Build armourer series: +10/15/15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/0/1/2/5 others
Train sword unit: +15 settlement
Units: Sword and Buckler Men, Sudanese Tribesmen, Swordsmen Militia, Armored Swordsmen, Highland Nobles, Zweihander, Noble Swordsmen, Forlorn Hope, Byzantine Infantry, Battlefield Assassins, Norse Swordsmen, Dismounted Feudal Knights, Dismounted Chivalric Knights, Dismounted Gothic Knights, Dismounted Conquistadores, Dismounted Italian MAA, Dismounted Broken Lances, Dismounted Norman Knights, Dismounted Polish Knights, Dismounted E Chivalric Knights, Dismounted Byzantine Lancers, Dismounted Latinkon, Hashishim, Urban Militia, Dismounted Christian Guard

Theologian's Guild
Train Priests: +10 settlement
Build church/masjid series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/1/2/5 others
Get your cardinal elected pope: +30 all settlements
Governor's piety >5: +5 settlement (per turn?)
Succeed/Fail theologian's guild mission: +/-10 all settlements
Priest becomes a heretic: -5 all settlements

Thieves Guild
Train spies: +10 settlement
Build brothel series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement
Governor with dread >4: +2 settlement (per turn?)
Spy in a settlement: +2 all settlements (per turn?)
Succeed/Fail theives guild mission: +/-10 all settlements

Woodsman's Guild
Recruit archers (England only!): +10/15/20 settlement (depending on unit)
Build brothel series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/0/2/5 others
Governor with chivalry >4: +5 settlement (per turn?)

Various Knight's Chapter Houses
General joins crusade: +25 all settlements
General abandons crusade: -25 all settlements
Recruit Specialist Knight: +10 settlement, +1 others (knight type tied to guild type)
Governor Chivalry >4: +5 settlement

St. John's guild get a +10 settlement, +1 others bonus when the settlement has muslim neighbours
St. John's guild get a +10 bonus for all settlements when you declare war on a muslim faction.
Teutonic guild get a +10 settlement, +1 others bonus when the settlement has pagan neighbours

[Whoz'onE]

Great analysis - thanks Daveybaby.

[Zenicetus]

Interesting info, thanks!

Either the data is incomplete or else I'm getting a bug in my game with the Explorer's Guild. I'm playing Spain, and the Explorer's Guild just offered me a mission to take the city of Pamplona from the Portuguese (who I'm currently not at war with). That seemed really odd. I suspect it might be mixed up somehow with what should normally be a Council of Nobles mission.

[dismal]

Agent points = faction points? That seems odd. Are you sure about that?

I guess it makes more sense than settlement points.

But what are explorer's guild agents? Ships? If I fail to take a settlement that the expolrer's guild asks me to take I lose 30 points per ship? That's a lot of points.

I say this not being sure why it would be all that great to have a lot of Explorer's guild points to begin with. Presumably it gets you the wordwide headquarters. If it's not already built somewhere else. But I'm not sure what the wordwide explorer's guild HQ gets you.

[Daveybaby]

I'd say that the "faction" score gets added to every single city's score. I don't believe there would be a point to have two separate tallies when one does the trick.

That would make perfect sense, just dunno if thats what actually happens, or if it's separate - i.e.

IF (settlement points > threshold) OR (faction points > threshold)

vs

IF (settlement points + faction points > threshold)

Agent points = faction points? That seems odd. Are you sure about that?

No, not really.
Just a guess, but it makes sense that the summation of all agent points are added to your faction total - you cant really add them to any one settlement, and the agents cant do anything with them themselves.

But what are explorer's guild agents? Ships? If I fail to take a settlement that the expolrer's guild asks me to take I lose 30 points per ship? That's a lot of points.

w.r.t. fleet distances the agents are the fleet admirals. w.r.t. missions then it depends on the mission i guess, but it should be fairly straightforward based on what the mission involves.

[dismal]

w.r.t. fleet distances the agents are the fleet admirals. w.r.t. missions then it depends on the mission i guess, but it should be fairly straightforward based on what the mission involves.

Well, my latest mission from the explorer's guild is "Take Dublin".

Not something that can be done by an admiral or a ship.

There'd be a fairly significant difference on those distance bonuses beween agents being admirals v. ships. I tend to keep my ships in big stacks. I could split up a stack of ships and have a bunch more admirals.

[Maizel]

How does one get an Hashashim guild then?

[Kobal2fr]

That would make perfect sense, just dunno if thats what actually happens, or if it's separate - i.e.

IF (settlement points > threshold) OR (faction points > threshold)

vs

IF (settlement points + faction points > threshold)

I know, I know, it's just that... well, if they are indeed separate, it means that for a city to get say Assassin HQ on its own, you'd have to build no less than 40 assassins (FOURTY !) out of it, since top brothel = 100 pts total. And that's not taking into account the -1 per 25 turns thing.

That's a LOT of assassins sent to die of door-induced broken noses

Besides, I'm pretty sure faction is added to city total because I've managed to have a basic Theologian Guild built in Paris just like I wanted to, about 25 turns from the start. Here goes the facts :

- Total provinces owned = 9,
- one successful crusade,
- best church a type 3 church in Paris, other regions have type 2 ones, if that. Priests trained everywhere (1 priest per region, all local trained). One pope (who lasted one turn before kicking the bucket too ) , a couple of priests turned heretic. Got the guild when I trained 2 more priests out of Paris (to replace those heretic blighters).

None of that would equal 100 total points on its own, but :

30 (priests, local) + 30 (pope, faction) + 45 (church, local) = 105. Minus 10 for priests turned heretic (faction), add a few turns of King Philip before he got his Pagan Magician (local (*)), that's just enough for a basic guild, which is what I got. But the math doesn't work if you take away the faction points.

What I'm really wondering about is wether agent points are faction-wide, or added to the city that built them originally...

(*) Have you managed to find out what triggers these BTW ? I swear I've never had a general without David Copperfield in tow sooner or later, even devout Christian knightly knights travelling with two bishops :/

[Kobal2fr]

Very interesting, and fits neatly with what I had figured.

I'd say that the "faction" score gets added to every single city's score. I don't believe there would be a point to have two separate tallies when one does the trick.

[andrewt]

Ouch, I'm playing as Russia right now and they have no units that give points for a swordsmith's guild. Turkey seems to have it bad, too, with Hashishims the only unit they have that gives points. It also took me forever to get any with Venice, as I found the Venetian heavy infantry way better than the dismounted feudal knights and only built the knights when I was facing the Mongols and didn't have enough Venetian heavy in queue.

Guess I will now start to use an inland province to make my priests and spies and will put quite a few on a certain province. I'd like my coastal cities to have merchant's.

[Hashashiyyin]

Funny, for the turks, the only sword unit you listed for the swordsmith's guild is hashishim. but you can't build hashashim in a city unless you already have the hashashim guild! thus it appears you can never have the swordsmith's guild as the turns unless you build a LOT of armor factories

[Daveybaby]

Funny, for the turks, the only sword unit you listed for the swordsmith's guild is hashishim. but you can't build hashashim in a city unless you already have the hashashim guild! thus it appears you can never have the swordsmith's guild as the turns unless you build a LOT of armor factories

Bear in mind its only 100 points for the first level guild. You get +10 for a first level armourer, then another +15 for the second level, and +20 for third.

So its either 4 cities at level 2 armourer, or just 2 at level 3 (plus one at level 1). Not too traumatic, especially if you bear in mind that most of the sword units are only available after 2 or 3 levels of barracks upgrades anyway.

Edit: cant believe i posted that, it's garbage.
Only the settlement points for that settlement will be cumulative, so you would probably have to build all 5 levels of armourer in a settlement in order to get a swordsmith's, unless you build a LOT of armourers elsewhere.

[Trithemius]

Funny, for the turks, the only sword unit you listed for the swordsmith's guild is hashishim. but you can't build hashashim in a city unless you already have the hashashim guild! thus it appears you can never have the swordsmith's guild as the turns unless you build a LOT of armor factories

I noted this as well. Extremely annoying actually. Also, all the likely foot units for swordsmith guild chance bonuses are built in cities - so it looks like you are out of luck if you want guilds in castles if you are a Turk. :(

[yogol]

I noted this as well. Extremely annoying actually. Also, all the likely foot units for swordsmith guild chance bonuses are built in cities - so it looks like you are out of luck if you want guilds in castles if you are a Turk. :(

The same with Egypt :( I tried to get that guild but I couldn't. Tabardariyya with the weapon upgrade would rule even more !

In my next Egypt game, I'll take a castle from someone and keep the guild, instead of tearing it down to make a merchant, me think.

[Varigg]

One correction: Teutonic Knights get the points for Pagan neighbors, not muslim.

[Daveybaby]

One correction: Teutonic Knights get the points for Pagan neighbors, not muslim.

Fixed, thanks - lazy copy-paste error

[RZST]

very informative =D

[ergothead]

Woodsman's Guild
Recruit archers (England only!): +10/15/20 settlement (depending on unit)
Build brothel series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/0/2/5 others
Governor with chivalry >4: +5 settlement (per turn?)

are you sure brothel is the building line? Bowyer would make more sense.