Am i the only one who sees this

[ElmarkOFear]

That is a very telling statement Puzz. Let's everyone know exactly how little regard they had/have for the MP community. Hopefully Palamedes can have a small positive effect on their views and we can begin the long march back to the standard of MP play we knew and loved.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Well IMO El, that "small positive effect" proably won't help much.If MP been on a downward spiral since RTW, I don't think MP will change back to the STW days,o r even to the old MTW days. Palamedes may help CA actually listen to the communtiy.... Somewhat. to me, I think MP will get better---- to a point. Meaning, I think MP will get alot better then RTW< but never to the STW/MTW point. I think it takes effort from both sides m8. if alll or most of the Vets refuse to come back, then CA proably would think "well,why whould we so anything if they don't come back to MTW2", but if they don't Fix the MP, the Vets won't come back. so it a Lose-Lose Situation.IMO anyhow.

[ElmarkOFear]

hehe I agree. I am under no misconception that MP will ever be as exciting and vibrant as the old days, but if the small things are brought back, it would go a long way to making MP more fun instead of frustrating.

[calithian]

Elmark
Palamedes????? Man he is just one guy. And perhaps one of the only people there at CA who actually have played tw throuhout all of the eras. I do hope he gets a say in some changes. For those who know pala, know that he does the majority of his damage with his ability to move his cav all over the map. If there is an example of how to use cav, then he is it. This being said i do know that he is pulling his hair out, well whats left of it. I know that most of the bugs in the game will be worked out, but it leaves a major issue. Are they going to change game spy? I am sure that many of you are fine with the size of the current community. Many in the clan i am in are not. We would like to see more people in the game. We would like to see the TWGA take effect and create more activity. From where i am standing i dont think people are going to pop this game in for the first time looking for a good MP experience and find it. Do you?

hehe I agree. I am under no misconception that MP will ever be as exciting and vibrant as the old days, but if the small things are brought back, it would go a long way to making MP more fun instead of frustrating.
Today 07:15

whatever worked in MTW that is fine but lots of ideas have been brought to the table that would improve it 200% from then. I just hope they can put down their purses and step up to the plate on this one

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

hehe I agree. I am under no misconception that MP will ever be as exciting and vibrant as the old days, but if the small things are brought back, it would go a long way to making MP more fun instead of frustrating.

IMO, if they fix the Musketeer issues and the compatbily issues, plus add like a ladder/honor system that you had in STW, to keep track of your games and such, that would be alot of fun and be somewhat better IMO..

[Fenix7]

Calithian I assume you have overlooked my post.

I remember how it was when RTW was released. I was the same. I was hoping that there will be improvements and when I've realized that game engine is as it is and that there are no other posibilities my post became very aggressive. RTW was as it was. Many trashed it (I was no exception) and constantly mentioning how many better games are out there. This is probably due the issue that those who liked STW and MTW were annoyed that RTW is not what it should have been. Frustration and anger have appeared. All we were able to do was that we have expressed our unsatisfaction with the way how RTW was made. Ironicaly those posts and ciritcs have not changed RTW. Infact situation would remain the same if we would spare ourselves our time we had spent writting all those posts.

I remember what Elmo did, like few others as well. I remember he posted his opinion about RTW and sold the game. And that's was it. He was not bothered with futher discussion how RTW should have been, what has been done, criticizing, etc. He simply moved along.

From my personal view on MTW2 is that it is improvedt compared to RTW. Patch could make it a lot better and let's us see what is going to happen. On the other way if you don't like the game, fine with me. If you want to play other games ok with that. I just know I'm not going over the same process I've went through after RTW was out. If I won't like MTW2 after the patch I will sold it and won't spent any more time on this forums posting comments how MTW2 should have been made and what else there is on the market or I will continue to play it. Simple as that.

Your or anyone else sarcasm is not going to change MTW2. Atm this is the only thing we can be sure of.

We would like to see the TWGA take effect and create more activity.

Already? So much comments over MTW2 on .ORG forums already. Let us first see how patch is done and what people will think of MTW2 gameplay and then we can focus on competitions, ladders and other issue. Besides would you like to be a moderator at TWGA?

From where i am standing i dont think people are going to pop this game in for the first time looking for a good MP experience and find it.

I see Bears, Aggony, Kenchikuka, VKC, Elite, Celtiberos and few other clan members from here and there playing MTW2. You should ask them what is their opinion.

And let me ask you one question calithian. How was MTW when it was released? Befor the patch I mean and befor VI. Was it ''perfect''? Was STW ''perfect'' befor it was patched? *perfect by your standards you have when rating MTW2*

We are all aware of MTW2 issue so far. With negative posts we are not going to change anything. I assume you agree at least with this. Let's see what patch will bring.

I've spoted a post at STW forums from MaskedTerror:

Having gone to many other multiplayer games after stw I feel shogun had one of the best communities and mix of strategies/armies whilst keeping fights balenced enough to be able to say the winner was definately the better player. That kinda mix is very hard to find nowadays :)

I played medievil for a matter of minutes before realising the programmers had messed around with the unit fight/morale coding ... it no longer felt "right" or balenced like shogun did. I think I played the demo of rome also , and that really didnt make a great impression either.

My overall thoughts is that probably many people complained about the instant routing that can occur in shogun , without havent a good grasp of the simple game mechanics... thus resulting in the game becomming too user/newbie friendly. However this is just my opinion formed from brief trials of the games :)

It seems that those who experienced STW can't compare it with no other game. Sounds like being addictive. :o

[KukriKhan]

...whatever worked in MTW that is fine but lots of ideas have been brought to the table that would improve it 200% from then. I just hope they can put down their purses and step up to the plate on this one

Optimism? Optimism! He's coming around, lads.

Welcome to the Org calithian where we not only cuss, but also discuss our games, and figure out how to improve them. Keep coming back.

Oh, and +2 Acumen for your command of the language. Your comments - even the negative ones - are readable and comprehensible.

[Marius Dynamite]

I do know that posts like the above have never had any effect on getting changes made. Even worse, posts such as the above have had a negative effect. It is one of the reasons CA doesn't participate in the forums much, nor give any information out until the last minute. They have been burned more than once, by the community and have developed a stubborn attitude because of it.

I just read this I think Elmar said it in the 4th post or such and I can't really be bothered reading anything else so I'll just say this...

I don't care if CA never ever visit these forums. I don't care if they don't give any information out until the last minute or indeed, at all.

All I care about (In the context of TW) is RTW and M2:TW, i.e. the games.
No matter how much anyone denies it, and I'm trying not to bash here, CA are not very professional with their games. Their games are not downloads or freestuffs. They are supposed to be professional products. We all paid money for them, not for mistakes. We are not lucky if they make a good game, they are lucky if we buy their game. Don't forget they are probably(ah, I still have my manners :)) handsomely paid to make these games. Silly mistakes like the issue with Merchants and The Byzantine archers thing.. I mean come on.

They don't have to listen to what the TW Community want. It is in their best interests but they don't have to listen. They should not be selling their games with silly mistakes and then saying you have to get patches for it to cure these mistakes. This is not their first game so there is no excuse.

[ElmarkOFear]

Marius: That is the whole point. Everyone here agrees CA has made many mistakes. Especially in not listening to the MP community who are the experts on the battle engine and its problems. :) The whole point is it isn't enough to just say "This is a horrible game" without stating "WHY" it is a horrible game.

Posts which just rant and offer nothing else, are just a waste of time, without any evidence to back them up.


Calithian: I agree with what you stated in your last post. I miss the days when you could jump in the lobby any day or night and find several clan vs. clan team games available to play. I miss all the comaraderie of the old community, even amongst rivals. The current lobby doesn't allow for that same feeling and interaction. Neither does the game. We both are hoping for something better, as frustrating as that has been watching it decline over the years.

All we can do is hope. :)

PS: I am most aware of Palamedes and his teammates abilities with cav. I have been a victim lately to double/triple teams as I tried to flank them. hehe Once I find my old teammates, things may change though.

[Lusted]

Just a little bit of info for you guys, me and Jason(aka Palamedes) are now discussing the changes i've made to the unit stats that i sent CA. So it looks like CA are willing to discuss changes which the community feels would be for the best.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Just a little bit of info for you guys, me and Jason(aka Palamedes) are now discussing the changes i've made to the unit stats that i sent CA. So it looks like CA are willing to discuss changes which the community feels would be for the best.

Good news, please give him this list also:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=72013&page=2

That are all important points bugs/imbalance issues. If they would fix that problem list, they would get a lots of positive posts here I guess.

[Lusted]

Sure thing i'll pass it on to him.

[ElmarkOFear]

Just remember though. You are talking with Palamedes and not one of the big decision makers at CA. Palamedes has our best interests at heart and he will try to do what he can, but it will be an uphill battle for him to get CA to commit any resources for fixes which mostly benefit MP. I wish him luck and I will look send him a list of things I feel are necessary to improve MP. Most of the issues I will focus on are not balance issues, but more features and game mechanic items which can make or break a game.

M2TW MP is missing a lot of things which we took for granted in STW/MTW. I would like to see those returned.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Just remember though. You are talking with Palamedes and not one of the big decision makers at CA. Palamedes has our best interests at heart and he will try to do what he can, but it will be an uphill battle for him to get CA to commit any resources for fixes which mostly benefit MP. I wish him luck and I will look send him a list of things I feel are necessary to improve MP. Most of the issues I will focus on are not balance issues, but more features and game mechanic items which can make or break a game.

M2TW MP is missing a lot of things which we took for granted in STW/MTW. I would like to see those returned.

You are right. But better than nothing. I have less hope too, because, they did RTW and M2TW follows RTW. Why they should make it better? CA have new customers, that are happy with that piece of software. I wish Palamedes also a successful uphill fighting. Try to go around the front line or take mtw2 cav and full charge the front line

[calithian]

Pala and i do go back a bit. Being that we are clanmates i think we probably have things in our forum that you people would pay money to read I fear our clan is going to fade. I think we have hands down gained the most stregth coming into M2TW of any clan. I dont say this bragging because by all means i have taken the job of water boy since day one. By that i mean that we have at least 10 guys that are really unbelievable players. I am sure that many of my posts came across as venting and perhaps they were. I do know that about 15 of our players in the BRO clan have about the same opinion on where CA can stick this game. Even pala. Well you know what i mean. Unfortunately we are a quiet clan and dont post much in this forum at all. With players like Pala, Huda, Fleshscream, Romulus, Trajan, General, Yellow Melon and so on down the line......and me chasing them while carrying water bottles. Aside from my rants about liberals having a severe mental disorder i would say we are quite a mature clan for us to be as upset as we are about M2TW. We have all posted to in our own forum and i think the general concensus is that if the patch does not improve the game tremendously then most of us are leaving.
So i guess i would say that the majority of my frustration is not that this game did not live up to all the hype so far, but that it is doing so at the cost of the greatest online community in the game. And by great community i do exclude veteran noobs And clan water boys

[ElmarkOFear]

I always added a bit of my infamous moonshine to the water can. Made for some interesting battles! :)

I have seen a few of your BRO clan members in the lobby. They seem like a good bunch of guys.

One thing about this patch: I noticed on the .com website speaking about the released date for this patch being very close. The title of the thread though appeared to be very telling: It mentioned "1st Update" The way it is worded it appears this patch is just the first one to take care of some of the major problems. I believe we may have some time for a 2nd patch which could help improve MP. (Let's hope that is the case anyways). Would have to ask Palamedes to be sure.

If they lose the MP community it will be for the 2nd time. The old STW/MTW MP community pretty much abandoned the game after RTW. The new RTW MP community is now setting where the old veteran MP community was setting. I just hope things turn out a bit better the 2nd time around and the MP community doesn't have to go through a 3rd beginning. Its such a shame to waste such a wonderful MP experience, by ignoring it for so long. I have heard rumor that it was Brian Simpson who was/is behind this.

For a little history:

At first, Rome Total War was going to be an advanced version of MTW. CA staff set up an MP forum (and asked me to run it) to gather ideas for the new game. There was a nice list of improvements worked up. However, a few months later we began to notice the lack of participation by CA staff, and how the staff never discussed the status of RTW MP. When we asked, we never received a response. I was a mod/admin at the .com during this time and nothing was mentioned there either. It was then announced that RTW would be going in a new direction and would be using a new battle engine. WE began noticing talk about graphics, ease of play, making the game more approachable etc . . . I knew this was heralding the death of MP as we knew it. Which, by itself wasn't terrible news. Little did I know at the time, MP would take a backseat to the campaign and graphical updates. The demo pretty much validated my fears, but it was hard to tell whether that was a finished product, plus it didn't show what the MP lobby and MP gameplay would be like.
About a week before the stated release date of RTW, a CA staff member came in the MP forum and asked a few questions. It was then I realized that they had just then started working on the MP lobby and MP options. I should have known better than to buy RTW at the time, but I was still optimistic during those days. Needless to say, RTW's original MP was so lacking in options, features, and originality, I was very dissappointed. I then played a few games online and realized to my horror that MP wasn't even an afterthought in RTW. It had been totally overlooked and problems which had been in MTW (but were patched), once again showed up in RTW. I sold my game back, resigned my position at the .com, posted a very nice little post in the private CA forums listing a whole page of problems, and also stating that the MP community would leave in droves. All of it came to pass and I left TW for awhile and played a few other games instead. I still participated in the forums, since I knew most of the people and enjoyed conversing with them. Eventually, though I moved on.
I have just recently come back to M2TW, after a long-time friend of mine T1Master talked me into purchasing this game. He stated MP had improved slightly over RTW and that he was having fun playing again. Me being the sucker that I am, I bought the game (also my son wanted to play it, so that too gave me another excuse! hehe) and played online a bit. I agree, that the MP game is slightly better than the original RTW I remember. Though there are still major oversights, and obvious reminders that MP still isn't considered important enough to put much time into. One of those is the units and their stats/costs. I noticed like units, with like stats, having different costs. I also noticed like units with lower stats being more expensive than ones with greater stats. Lastly, I noticed several places where a faction has 3 or 4 units with duplicate stats, which pretty much kills the upgrade limits of "4 units before cost penalties" instituted by the upgrade system. All of these break the balance for MP. MP is a totally different animal from SP. You cannot use the costs for units from SP to determine the cost of units from MP. MP does not include the cost of buildings in their calculations, plus you can upgrade them with florins instead of having to purchase, build a building to produce the upgrades. The SP and MP stats have to be separated if we are ever going to get a patch to address MP imbalances. Reason being, CA will not make changes which might upset the SP campaign game to help out MP balance.

So this is how I got to the point where I am today and why I am willing to try to help Palamedes get changes through to help improve the MP game. I am definitely not an optimist, but after being away for so long, I now have a different perspective and can now accept the game for what it is and have a slight bit of hope for its future improvement.

If you see me in the MP lobby, PM me and I can show you how a Veteran Noob plays the game! Might even introduce you to the "Joys of Routing". :)

[calithian]

introduce me to routing????/ I think not. Routing my army is very probable but that would not be my introduction. I can rout my own army I have no problem finding units whos flags go white on impact. I have even been known to run cav into my own stakes. This obstical i am trying to dodge in the future but will probably happen more than once. I am a pretty good rtw player and was a very decent BI player. However i learned very fast that habits learned in RTW are not healthy for M2TW. It is a much slower paced game as far as kills go. Blobbing cav and a few inf units for a quick rout is not the case in this game. No matter how many times i loose because i cant rout an enemy flank as fast as i would like, i still continue to try. I prefer the faster kill rate because of this. But either way i will eventually adjust.

As far as your rebel moonshine goes, I add something similar. A good old San Diego micro brew called Arrogant Bastard Ale. + 3 moral for all troops on the battle field at the time. That number decreases significantly though when you wake up the next morning.

Meeting in the lobby is likely for a game but most of us play at west coast time. We have a couple players from old dixie who have far exceeded their limit on moonshine by the time we get on. Nevertheless we still get games in at about 7:30 to 10:30 our time.

Elmark perhaps we can have a game this weekend. I think we may call it the BATTLE OF BETTERMANSHIP. He may see once and for all who has the better booze moral in their troops. Micro Brew vs. Moonshine.

[ElmarkOFear]

Calithian Replied: Routing my army is very probable but that would not be my introduction. I can rout my own army I have no problem finding units whos flags go white on impact.

Yes, but have you had your army rout before the game actually started? True story: Palamedes "May" have been in that game. I remember it was several of the RTKs participating in a big 4v4 game and I accidentally hit the "rout all" button and my men went scampering off the map before anyone had even deployed. The RTK's laughed at me! :) I do not take the title Veteran Noob lightly my friend!

I am in the Eastern Standard time zone, but I work the midnight shift, so there may be a good possibility on the weekends I may be on around the times most of your guys play online. If I see any of you, I will give you a shout.

[pevergreen]

Just a quick point about Dev's. They tend to stay out of the forums, due to the aforementioned yelling/attacking etc. They (good ones at least) do watch over the forums, picking up tidbits of infomation as they see them. I've seen a dev post a workaround for a mod problem when no one else knew the way. Was surprised. Now I think I remember hearing that CA was in Brisbane, Australia? (part of it at least) Well if that's true, I may be working there in a few years (ie 6-7 years am only starting year 11 next year). Look out CA pever's a coming! Eventually...

[FearSimbol]

Calithian Replied: Routing my army is very probable but that would not be my introduction. I can rout my own army I have no problem finding units whos flags go white on impact.

Yes, but have you had your army rout before the game actually started? True story: Palamedes "May" have been in that game. I remember it was several of the RTKs participating in a big 4v4 game and I accidentally hit the "rout all" button and my men went scampering off the map before anyone had even deployed. The RTK's laughed at me! :) I do not take the title Veteran Noob lightly my friend!

I am in the Eastern Standard time zone, but I work the midnight shift, so there may be a good possibility on the weekends I may be on around the times most of your guys play online. If I see any of you, I will give you a shout.

OHHHHHH NOOOOO some one is ataking Fear clan m8s?
i am so glad i will be in the field again cuting noobs head off!
now i understand why people say they miss me.. We need put Order!

[7Bear7Bottom]

*Honey detector turns on and starts flashing a red light in the den.*

*Global positioning device pops out of a honey pot with translucent blinking lights pin pointing the exact location of the post and folds out neatly infront of Bottoms chair*

I see Bears, Aggony, Kenchikuka, VKC, Elite, Celtiberos and few other clan members from here and there playing MTW2. You should ask them what is their opinion.

Did someone say Bears?

MTW2 problems can be worked around easily in MP, because if you don't work around them, your easy prey.

Problem: Grouping doesn't work and formations change when moving army.

Solution: Don't use grouping, select all the units you want, and draw all the lines that you want made manually.

Hint: Do finger exercises before playing, or in my case claw exercises, so you won't get tired doing all that extra work moving your troops around.

Problem: Range likes to melee instead of shooting when adjusting for range.

Solution: Go to custom batles in single player, adjust your normal camera angle, test distance between combatants, and estimate the distance for that particular range unit to the enemy. You may want to put a ruler on your screen to see the exact measurement if your fussy.

Hint: Make sure no one sees you doing this like your wife, or you might be sent to do other measurements around the house that you have been avoiding.

Problem: Horse Archers don't circle properly, or run into enemy units causing melee to happen.

Solution: Play Shogun and MTW/VI once a day to get use to not having this option.

Hint: Use loose formation to limit casualties, circling only makes your units dizzy and lets be honest here there are no covered wagons in the game anyways.

Problem: Units don't rout instantly when surrounded.

Solution: Pick a well balanced army of range, swords, spears, cav and axes to challenge enemy armies effectively. You may in some games not be able to get a good flank going. Depending on this alone is a poor sign of generalship.

Hint: Practise your flanking techniques, you might be flanking units with impetuous tags on them considering the cercomstance of the battle like death of enemy ally general etc. If this does not help, and your still pulling your hair out, it's time to lay off the tripple cream latays and cappuccinos.

Problem: Cav charge sometimes doesn't work.

Solution: Wait for next patch.

Hint: Put cav on guard mode for now, if attempting a charge fails, you will be already prepared to defend. If this doesn't work, turn computer screen off, count to ten, turn on again, and type GG.

I hope I have enlighten a few MP players out there and hope to see you all on-line.

[Warluster]

Okay all, just remeber one thing, these CA people are not machines, can you imagine how many forums are out there?! Another thing, look at the bad things right, good, CA will try to do all that in the next patch (They have lives ), now look at all the good things. You should be happy that these people are even MAKING this game!! Imagine if they did not put all time and effort into this game, of course they will not get it right the first time!! Do you think there eyes scan the game and BOOM! Beep-beep-beep, found error! No, they dont have laser eyes (Imagine if they did ). So be happy with what ya got because remember, YOU ARE LUCKY TO EVEN HAVE THIS GAME!!

[ElmarkOFear]

Bottom you forgot to put

Problem: Chasing Elmo off the map without getting tired.

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Okay all, just remeber one thing, these CA people are not machines, can you imagine how many forums are out there?! Another thing, look at the bad things right, good, CA will try to do all that in the next patch (They have lives ), now look at all the good things. You should be happy that these people are even MAKING this game!! Imagine if they did not put all time and effort into this game, of course they will not get it right the first time!! Do you think there eyes scan the game and BOOM! Beep-beep-beep, found error! No, they dont have laser eyes (Imagine if they did ). So be happy with what ya got because remember, YOU ARE LUCKY TO EVEN HAVE THIS GAME!!

Sure, they are not machines, but why they haven't made an open multiplayer beta test. Or they could ask us about our happiness with multiplayer. Because they are not interested in. This isn't a reproach, it is a conclusion.

And we cannot happy with that game. Yesterday a m8 in MTW Vi called MTW2 Medieval Command and Conquer and that's right.

[ElmarkOFear]

hehe M2TW isn't that bad! But I do wish they would bring back the option to use the old left click method instead of the current RTW left-click/right-click. However, the battle engine HAS been simplified to make way for the new graphic animations. The effects of terrain, height, unit formation, flanking, fatigue, and weather, have all been reduced or eliminated entirely. I think that is what most of the old veterans miss. There also was a predictable outcome in unit vs. unit comparisons, whereas M2TW appears to be random at times. Though it is hard to tell whether it is due to the game engine or some other factor we may not be aware of. Unlike STW/MTW where the game mechanics of the battle engine were known, CA has chosen not to give much (any) information on how such things as above effect the outcome of a battle by how much.

The game is still better than any RTS around, and is fun to play with teammates and friends. But if I was in a competitive mood, I can see how I would feel just like a lot of you. When you play competitively, you want to know as much about the game's internal workings as possible. Unfortunately, M2TW is still a mystery which CA doesn't seem willing to shed light on yet. :)

[Stig]

lol good post Bottom

[FearSimbol]

Hahaha Bottom

Problem: Units don't rout instantly when surrounded.

That is not a problem for God sake.. What people is thinking? that just surrounding soldiers have to surrender? What about if you can move fast and just overcome the flank? or you have anothers units in the field, like cavs that can run and help the unit surrounded?

GAH! comon!

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Problem: Cav charge sometimes doesn't work.

Solution: Wait for next patch.

Hint: Put cav on guard mode for now, if attempting a charge fails, you will be already prepared to defend. If this doesn't work, turn computer screen off, count to ten, turn on again, and type GG.

This is my favorite Hint!

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

LOL Bottom, good one :)

[7Bear7Bottom]

Just for Elmo.


Problem: Chasing Elmo off the map without getting tired.

Solution: Don't play Elmo in Viking era, make many excuses not to join the game like the dog was sick on the rug again, or the garbage truck hit you while taking the the trash out and you really need to goto the Hospital.

Hint: If you get suckered into a vikings game with him, take exactly what elmo takes, leave your computer and get tasks done around the house like washing dishes, ironing clothes, walking the dog, doing and finishing a 10000 peice puzzle or full coat of wax on your car. Pass by the computer every 30 min. and type common catch phrases as "what a nice battle" or "man your really good with those units". Also turn volume up on computer speakers so you can hear the end battle music, run to the computer and type GG.