Question about ancient swords

[-Praetor-]

Hi y`all!

I always had the doubt:

Whats the difference between a Falcata and a Kopis? (Other than one is from Iberia and the other from Hellas)

And what about the Kukri? Some weeks ago I visited an argentinean fellow, whose father was a Falklands/Malvinas veteran, and he had a kukri as a souvenir (dunno if he actually took it from the isles or bought an imitation... these argentineans ). Any relationship between the Kopis and the Kukri?

Thanks in advance!

Ancient swords, armor, etc. site, here. Crappy fidelity, but interesting nonetheless.

[Kugutsu]

I would imagine they are all designed with the same effect in mind: more weight near the tip increases the momentum of the sword, so it will be able to cut through stuff more easily.
I guess the falcata and the kopis (what about the machaira?) are probably linked, as the greeks went to Iberia.

[Sarcasm]

A kopis is typically a cavalry weapon, a bit longer than the Iberian falcata, which was nevertheless used as a cavalry sword too [the nature of iberian cavalry would be somewhat like the later dragoons though, dismounting and mounting several times during battle].

The type of hilt tends to be different between the two as well, so you might classify them based on that like other swords are.

As for the Kukri, there's been a sugestion that the Greek presence in the Far East led to the exchange of ideas originating eventually in the Nepalese weapon. Both Roman trade and Achaemenid use [they had been using the type of weapon for a while now too] are also possibilities.

[MeinPanzer]

I guess the falcata and the kopis (what about the machaira?) are probably linked, as the greeks went to Iberia

Don't be fooled by terminology- both kopis and machaira were general Greek terms for swords or daggers which eventually also took on more specific meanings describing the slashing weapon with a "beaked" hilt and the weight more towards the tip.

A kopis is typically a cavalry weapon, a bit longer than the Iberian falcata, which was nevertheless used as a cavalry sword too [the nature of iberian cavalry would be somewhat like the later dragoons though, dismounting and mounting several times during battle].

While the kopis was a weapon which was preferred by cavalry during the Hellenistic period, it was used as much, if not more, by infantry.

The type of hilt tends to be different between the two as well, so you might classify them based on that like other swords are.

This classification often blurs quite a bit when you look at a wide selection of examples, though.

In the end, I don't think there's really any hard and fast rule for differentiating between falcatae and machairai/kopeis. Usually, falcatae tend to have small touches which indicate Spanish workmanship, and the same is true for Greek kopeis, but this is definitely not the case with all specimens. I'm not even sure where the design originated, though I think it might have been Greek originally. They are ultimately just different terms for the weapon used in different parts of the world.

[Watchman]

I've read the machaira family evolved from the khopesh-style "sickle swords" (or rather "sword-axes") of the Late Bronze Age and was pretty popular around the Middle East as well. If that theory is correct then it most likely arrived in Iberia through the Greek trading colonies, although imports through Phoenician merchants are another possibility (weren't quite a few of the Greek colonies around the western Med originally Phoenician ones anyway...?).

That aside, I've read the Iberian version usually called falcata differed from the East-Med original design mainly in having more in the way of serviceable thrusting tip, whereas the machaira/kopis type as well as their distant descendant the kukri are nigh exclusively "choppers".

The kukri most likely ended up in Nepal through Hellenic influences (ie. Bactria and its Indo-Hellenic successors) - recall that for example Hellenic influences on Buddhist religious art were considerable, and startlingly "Greek"-looking details survive on the older Buddhist buildings in Japan. Although as the machaira-type "chopper" was AFAIK also quite popular in Persia it may have travelled there equally well later or earlier too.

[MeinPanzer]

I've read the machaira family evolved from the khopesh-style "sickle swords" (or rather "sword-axes") of the Late Bronze Age and was pretty popular around the Middle East as well. If that theory is correct then it most likely arrived in Iberia through the Greek trading colonies, although imports through Phoenician merchants are another possibility (weren't quite a few of the Greek colonies around the western Med originally Phoenician ones anyway...?).

That aside, I've read the Iberian version usually called falcata differed from the East-Med original design mainly in having more in the way of serviceable thrusting tip, whereas the machaira/kopis type as well as their distant descendant the kukri are nigh exclusively "choppers".

What source did you find this in? I've never heard anything about falcatae being more serviceable for thrusting than machairai/kopeis.

The Hispanic Army Osprey, for what it's worth (very little), says that the two schools of thought on the origin of the falcata exist: that it developed from a type of late-Halstatt knife from Central Europe or that it was copied directly from the Greeks in the 6th C. BC. The latter seems kind of lazy, because it still does not explain the original source of the kopis.

The kukri most likely ended up in Nepal through Hellenic influences (ie. Bactria and its Indo-Hellenic successors) - recall that for example Hellenic influences on Buddhist religious art were considerable, and startlingly "Greek"-looking details survive on the older Buddhist buildings in Japan. Although as the machaira-type "chopper" was AFAIK also quite popular in Persia it may have travelled there equally well later or earlier too.

Yeah, there are a number of aspects of modern Central Asian culture which are thought to have been heavily influenced by the Greeks. The Greeks were the first to influence artists to depict Buddha in human form, and the first statues to show Buddha in the form we are now so familiar with, dating to the Hellenistic period, are strikingly Hellenic. The chitrali, the felt cap worn by many in Afghanistan, is also thought to have been derived from the kausia of the Macedonians. It would not surprise me at all if such a weapon was derived from the influence of the kopis (whether through Persians or Macedonians).