parthian cav army of death

[pike master]

a mounted army only, denies an opponent a base of infantry to attack but requires some skill to keep it intact. however orders to move beyond units except for other cav units seems to negate the defensive properties of units on guard mode or have to not been commanded to attack said unit.

it is an intrigueing formation and perhaps we can discuss the mechanics involved in it. it is quited formidable but perhaps there are counters too it.

1) discuss the mechanics for its success

2) discuss ways that counter mobile horse armies 8|

[Grey_Fox]

This forum is for MTW2...

[pike master]

i am referring to mtw2 cav formations resembling parthian all horse armies.

[ElmarkOFear]

Greyfox is being humorous. :)

This is beyond my scope of expertise.. I will have to leave this to others more knowledgeable than myself on using and/or defending against M2TW cav armies. The only way I have found, is by taking a cav army myself, but I am lousy at maneuvering cav, so it doesn't help much.

[Dionysus9]

Well pikes in spear wall do a good job of stopping cav, but they are helpless against HA and are vulnerable to attack from behind-- so you'd have to make a circle of pikes and park enough long range archers inside to hold off the HA. (I'm thinking Scotland with elite archers). It would be fun to try-- but if the enemy took swords rather than all cav you'd be a goner.

[pike master]

ive noticed horse archers in shooting circle are nearly impossible to hit as compared to in rome. i read in thread in the single player forum that this has something to do with game calculations based on whether the projectile will hit or miss a selected individual and is not factoring in collateral hits.ie random hits.

[RTKBarrett]

ive noticed horse archers in shooting circle are nearly impossible to hit as compared to in rome. i read in thread in the single player forum that this has something to do with game calculations based on whether the projectile will hit or miss a selected individual and is not factoring in collateral hits.ie random hits.

Xbows make short work of cantabarian... and its not a bad thing as cav in cantabarian are INCREDIBLY innacurate, far more so than those from RTW/BI.

[Vladimir]

1: No trees or hills

2: Trees and hills

[Dionysus9]

It sounds like you are also talking about the click behind bug, which I dont know how to counter that except with other cav. Anyone who uses the bug on purpose should be ashamed of themselves, but I see it all the time. Once in a while it might happen on accident I suppose-- sometimes if I'm sounding a full charge I might double click behind the enemy to make sure none of my units stop in front of the enemy army-- but then I go back, unit by unit and direct them into their targets. Once in a while I may miss one or two but it does happen.

As far as the "almost all cav" armies that are coming up more and more regularly, I dont think anyone has been able to find an effective counter army except for a similar cav-heavy army. I suppose you could take ALL PIKES in spearwall, and create a pike circle. Simply stand your ground. Refuse to budge. Dont move an inch, endure the jeers of the cav spammer, and wait it out. But even then the cav can just walk into your formations (and avoid the spearwall) and may be able to win on stats alone.

Actually that bears some testing. If an all pike army in a circle on spear-wall cannot beat a similarly priced cav army then there is something massively wrong with the balance.

[pike master]

it truly boils down to which is easier to win with. and it is the horse only army right now. but the run behind bug should be fixed and charges tuned down in the patch so maybe it will change things. really by the time the patch comes out all the strategies will be obsolete anyways.

i dont see how they can do a full job on all the bugs in so short a period of time but if they fix it like some believe it may be just like playing a completely different game.

[Dionysus9]

If cav units costed $250 more across the board we wouldn't have this problem. I think its a function of power being greater than cost.

[pike master]

you can make an all horse army out of any faction and have at least 4 has in every one and some factions will surprise you as to how many horse you can cram into 10k.

[Demok]

with infantry being the **** that it is, it's pretty obvious that all cav armies would be pretty overpowering as of late.... it most likely wont work after the patch... we'll have to do some tests.

[pevergreen]

Bah! I tell you, all you have to do, is take as many guys with heavy armour as you can!

Then you win because armour looks cool!
*point to my own avatar* See?

[RTKBarrett]

Bah! I tell you, all you have to do, is take as many guys with heavy armour as you can!

Then you win because armour looks cool!
*point to my own avatar* See?

Give this man a medal!!

[pike master]

next time someone spams cav i got something for em hehe

[pevergreen]

Give this man a medal!!

I agree

[pike master]

i have the best strategy ever to defeat all cav armies.


































patch 1.2

[Carl]

LOL.

[Paolai]

i have the best strategy ever to defeat all cav armies.
patch 1.2

it all depends on who is testing the patch.

[pike master]

true dat

[JusWizWar]

The patch has lots to fix, more then cav spam, unit malfunction and game spy connections! The online gaming of the standard 10K florins is obsolete for MTW2 online gaming! There are 20 units not 16 as in MTW/VI, the units have different cost, plus there are different type units with more abilities. "HELLO" A new standard needs set. 10k Early 12.5K High 15K Late/All These standards are minimum for getting a good 20 unit army without having to use peasants or settling for 15, 16 or 17 units. Yes some units are better then other, but the cost makes up for that and you can always beef up the lower units with armour or weapon or experience. 10K MTW/VI old thinking are for those stuck in a rut! MTW2 is a new game, needing new thinking! For those who won't budge from 10k its time to fine that retirement castle so you can live in the past! The best player can play all the units, all the era's and all the maps. Skill cannot be measured by one map and one standard of florins or one era. Setting unit limits on games is good as long as you don't play them all the time. After all, spamming or picking any army in MTW/VI or MTW2 is a guessing game on matching up against your opponent, plus needing the skill to win with your army, thats a fact that will always be with us. So open your minds and you may find new horizons and yes maybe fine out that your not so limited as a player as everyone else thinks you are! Cheers all, |C|GOS|Wiz_Merlin

[Fenix7]

A bug in game engine doesn't care if game is 10k or 12,5k or what I know.That bug works until it is fixed.

[pike master]

wasnt the default funds in rtw 15k?i think most players try to play with the default money.

[guyfawkes5]

The patch has lots to fix, more then cav spam, unit malfunction and game spy connections! The online gaming of the standard 10K florins is obsolete for MTW2 online gaming! There are 20 units not 16 as in MTW/VI, the units have different cost, plus there are different type units with more abilities. "HELLO" A new standard needs set. 10k Early 12.5K High 15K Late/All These standards are minimum for getting a good 20 unit army without having to use peasants or settling for 15, 16 or 17 units. Yes some units are better then other, but the cost makes up for that and you can always beef up the lower units with armour or weapon or experience. 10K MTW/VI old thinking are for those stuck in a rut! MTW2 is a new game, needing new thinking! For those who won't budge from 10k its time to fine that retirement castle so you can live in the past! The best player can play all the units, all the era's and all the maps. Skill cannot be measured by one map and one standard of florins or one era. Setting unit limits on games is good as long as you don't play them all the time. After all, spamming or picking any army in MTW/VI or MTW2 is a guessing game on matching up against your opponent, plus needing the skill to win with your army, thats a fact that will always be with us. So open your minds and you may find new horizons and yes maybe fine out that your not so limited as a player as everyone else thinks you are! Cheers all, |C|GOS|Wiz_Merlin

Actually I can fill up the twenty unit slots quite easily without having to resort to peasants. And I think you'll find 12,000 florins and upwards favours certain factions more than others; factions like the Turks or the western European powers would benefit more from the higher florin setting due to their already expensive units, while the Moors would have to resort to a lot of unit upgrades to fill up their florin quota.

[tibilicus]

wasnt the default funds in rtw 15k?i think most players try to play with the default money.

Most clans and Tournment games were played on 12.5k if I rember correctly.

[JusWizWar]

To Aonar: We have to wait for all the bugs to be fixed in MTW2 which is out of our control. But the narrow minded 10K florin issue is just as bad as tech bugs. That is the point!

To mad cat mech: Not everyone played RTW!

To guyfawkes5: You better wipe the sides of you mouth, because there is some cow poop poop there! 10k high is the on-line standard at the moment in on-line play and the Scots and Aztec armies are the only ones you can fill with 20 units. This old standard is already changing! Its time the old 10K standard for MTW/VI be upgraded to 12.5 high for MTW2. After all MTW2 is an upgrade from MTW/VI! The mix of 20 units should be that of high and mid level units without peasant type units being mandatory. Do you understand there are 20 units not 16, do you understand the there are totally new units with different cost! As far as western European "benefiting more" that is totally untrue. All factions have expensive units. (Egypt Royal Mumluks 1050 - Turks, Quapukulu 1100K) Upgrades are part of the game, that is why there were included. Did you notice that units have different types of armor, attack, defense, shield and charge? Like "resorting" to up grades is a burden! (Please :) The burden here is some clans are stuck in a rut over 10K games of the past and can't move forward. This is also there arrogance because they don't understand that no one died and made them King. These clans are going to be left behind and are now no longer elite players in the game because of their narrow minded boundaries on playing the NEW Game. These clans will be stuck playing inter clan games as the world passes them bye bye!

[guyfawkes5]

Ah see, now this where your rant finally starts making sense:

The mix of 20 units should be that of high and mid level units without peasant type units being mandatory.

So essentially this is just a dressed-up way of asking for more 'l33t' units by pumping in more florins. The current limit means you have to choose which 'uber-units' you want or don't want; raising the bar would only open the door to ridiculous elite armies with the best of everything and no real weaknesses. 10k works just fine and I haven't heard any bitching except from noobs, although if you want to use this rule in your own games it's fine.

Do you understand there are 20 units not 16, do you understand the there are totally new units with different cost!

Erm, what?

All factions have expensive units. (Egypt Royal Mumluks 1050 - Turks, Quapukulu 1100K)

The Turks are unusual as an Eastern faction in that they have a lot of expensive units and would benefit from higher florin levels. Although that aside, I meant that Western European factions would benefit more due to their unit rosters being more expensive. Eastern factions may have one or two 'uber-units' but I think you'll find across the board they don't have counterparts for the expensive western European plate-armoured 'elite' units.

Upgrades are part of the game, that is why there were included. Did you notice that units have different types of armor, attack, defense, shield and charge? Like "resorting" to up grades is a burden! (Please :)

As beneficial as upgrading is, upgraded units can't compete with higer-tier unupgraded units. Experience and armour might give your units the edge when they are fighting similar foes, but when you match up your upgraded Muslim infantry to Western knights they will get trashed even though they may be at a similar level cost-wise. I'm not sure of the exact game mechanics (morale is one of them), but I know this to be a fact through experience.

The burden here is some clans are stuck in a rut over 10K games of the past and can't move forward. This is also there arrogance because they don't understand that no one died and made them King.

Those clans don't force their rules on you, if you don't like their rules well then don't play with them.

[pike master]

i have no problem filling my slots with any faction and in any age without using peasants. all you have to do is not upgrade as much and when you do yu have to know which ones work the best.

[7Bear7Bottom]

From what I understand, the shield upgrade is ineffective in on-line play. Think that was one of the bugs in the list that doesn't work right.

The Weapons upgrade seems to work as I tested it already 1 vrs 1 unit archer vrs archer. Once with no upgrades to one with upgrades for peasant archers. Each time the peasant unit with the weapon upgrade won the match.

It appears to have a 25% more effectiveness.