A start on the .MESH file format

[GubZol]

Hi!

Im new here...
And i need a modeller, to work for me...
If anybody wants help me, please advise me.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi LB

I started to work on some early renaissance pieces of armour.

Here some examples:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82884

I'll make some experiments to merge them into existing models. Suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Luciano B

Good work there, you'll have to reduce the triangle count to make them workable in-game. If you have a look at https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=381 above and my reply https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=382 I talk about triangle counts and how to mange it in Milkshape. You'll need to get them over into Milkshape to get them converted. As you can see from Andromachus Theodoulos' post he is also working on Renaissance helmets.

With the general arrangement in game, I'd leave the mazzocchio and turban as separate groups as 'Attachment' type groups. If you have these groups as optional then half your figures will have no attachment on their helmets and the other half will have a random mix of the two, of course if you have more than one texture for these then you increase the number and variety shown.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

@Grumpy and KE,

Help! I did something wrong. I had worked on these guys all weekend.


I am not sure what I did. The result of being too ambitious perhaps?

This is pike_militia_ug3

I removed the swords and pikes, added new swords, and three new pikes. I removed all the helmets and added four new helmets, figuring that this I could do this, because it worked with vanilla switch outs before.

I do know this, that when I was texture mapping the helmets, the plumes form RTR did not show up in the Texture Coordinate Window, so I just ignored it so I could get on with testing.

I may have to send you the files so you can see what is going on.

Let me know if that is OK with you.

Edit:
I am backing up with the original I posted not too long ago. Adding one piece at a time, until the error shows up again.

Edit 2:
I am confident that it centers around the foreign converted CAS in the form of the added plumes. Am I supposed to do something with the vertices or perhaps group them to the helmets?? The plumes are segregated on their own within the model, but I borught them in by proper method by the merge function in the converter.


AT

[Herkus]

I am not sure what I did. The result of being too ambitious perhaps?

You didn't assign vertices to corresponding bones, did you?

[SHREDDER]

Hello!
I beg pardon for my English.

Thank you for the prosecution of breaking of MESH!

As far as did I understand it is yet impossible correctly by hand to assign vertices to bones? When I did it and inserted in a game - units turned out with the placed hands, without animation, and with problems in the
variants of bodies, hands and heads ...

In addition, does not turn out even to give vanilla unit new weapon (to that I did).... I do not know in what problem.....

OK will farther understand

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi AT

@Grumpy and KE,

Help! I did something wrong. I had worked on these guys all weekend.

I am not sure what I did. The result of being too ambitious perhaps?

This is pike_militia_ug3

I removed the swords and pikes, added new swords, and three new pikes. I removed all the helmets and added four new helmets, figuring that this I could do this, because it worked with vanilla switch outs before.

I do know this, that when I was texture mapping the helmets, the plumes form RTR did not show up in the Texture Coordinate Window, so I just ignored it so I could get on with testing.

I may have to send you the files so you can see what is going on.

Let me know if that is OK with you.

Edit:
I am backing up with the original I posted not too long ago. Adding one piece at a time, until the error shows up again.

Edit 2:
I am confident that it centers around the foreign converted CAS in the form of the added plumes. Am I supposed to do something with the vertices or perhaps group them to the helmets?? The plumes are segregated on their own within the model, but I borught them in by proper method by the merge function in the converter.


AT

It's hard to say what you've done. A quick check to see if you've not assigned all vertices to bones is load the ms3d figure in Milkshape, Menu/Edit/select none, Tab/Joints/Select Unassigned - as long as you've got the Draw Vertex Weights box, etc unchecked this will show you if there are any vertices unassigned. With being unable to see them in the TCW, scale the texture down to .1, make sure you've Selected All in the main window, select the plume in the TCW drop down and if it still doesn't show up then press the Fit Selection button and see where it ends up. Make sure that you've assigned the right material to it, as well. Attachments are on the figure texture and equipment are on the attachmentset texture.

Let me know what happens, if need be I'll arrange to download it to see what's happened.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

@GOM

I did as you suggested and the whole plume lit up like a christmas tree, so I assume that means all those vertices are unassigned.

Sooo... Now I am assuming that I stay under that tab, take those selected vertices and assign them to the head bone (making a logical deduction here... hopefully).

Let me know if I am on the right track, in the mean time I am going to try my proposed solution.

Aaack, learning this model stuff can be a humbling experience...

Most of my mistakes seem to be "duh" ones...

Edit:
The problem goes deeper than I thought. I assigned the crest to the head bone, but the soldiers are still appearing the same way. Also, the plume is appearing on all the helmets, which this probably goes back to some kind of group comment or something. I can post the model somewhere if you have time to look at it.


AT

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi AT

@GOM

I did as you suggested and the whole plume lit up like a christmas tree, so I assume that means all those vertices are unassigned.

Sooo... Now I am assuming that I stay under that tab, take those selected vertices and assign them to the head bone (making a logical deduction here... hopefully).

Let me know if I am on the right track, in the mean time I am going to try my proposed solution.

Aaack, learning this model stuff can be a humbling experience...

Most of my mistakes seem to be "duh" ones...

Edit:
The problem goes deeper than I thought. I assigned the crest to the head bone, but the soldiers are still appearing the same way. Also, the plume is appearing on all the helmets, which this probably goes back to some kind of group comment or something. I can post the model somewhere if you have time to look at it.


AT

Post it up somewhere, and I'll have a look. Are you listing the plume as an Attachment or equipment, or have you regrouped it with the helmet?

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Shredder

Hello!
I beg pardon for my English.

Thank you for the prosecution of breaking of MESH!

As far as did I understand it is yet impossible correctly by hand to assign vertices to bones? When I did it and inserted in a game - units turned out with the placed hands, without animation, and with problems in the
variants of bodies, hands and heads ...

In addition, does not turn out even to give vanilla unit new weapon (to that I did).... I do not know in what problem.....

OK will farther understand

Work through Zxiang's tutorial, http://rapidshare.com/files/23918713/basic_tutorial.doc and see if you can get that example to work.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Casuir]

Make sure that you've assigned the right material to it, as well. Attachments are on the figure texture and equipment are on the attachmentset texture.

Is this hardcoded into the converter? I.e. is it possible to have a body variant using the attachmentset texture and vice versa without the converter flagging them as such? Hope you understand that.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi All

Got bored with coding so I thought I'd try my hand at finishing off a new figure.



It's a mid 17C musketeer (about 1630-1660), the white sashes, arm band, etc are one attachment set (only one per figure will be shown). These are field signs that can be retextured for either faction colours or more historical (ie red for imperial) colours. I've only done one body variant and one hat variant up to now but I've regrouped the arms and body together so that they can have coats of different colours. I've made and imported a wide brimmed hat. It's a bit hard to see in this pic but I've also made and imported a brass powder flask as well as corrected the bandolier belt to hang from the left shoulder to the right hip. The powder bag has also been changed to hang on the right hip. The legs, waist sash and sash ends are from the Hashishim, the body, heads, arms and muskets from the Cossack_ug1_musketeer and the swords, powderbags and bandolier belt are from the arquebusier.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Casuir

Is this hardcoded into the converter? I.e. is it possible to have a body variant using the attachmentset texture and vice versa without the converter flagging them as such? Hope you understand that.

Yes this is hard coded into the converter, I have to alter the uv coords to split up the combined texture, so I have to be able to alter it back again to m2tw values. If you want to have all body variants on the attachmentset texture then you can call them equipment, but it'd be easier to rescale your body textures down a bit to fit them all onto the figure texture.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Luciano B]

Thank you very much.

I exported the barbute from 3DS Max as a "Wavefront object", I imported it in Milkshape, I joined it to the "bone_head" and I assigned the same texture of the "figure". I renamed it "Helmet 4" and I copied the comment from the existing "Helmet 1" changing in the copied comment the number "1" to "4". Finally I exported all to .mesh format using the converter.

I made some attempts to put the modded model in game, with no result; the game CTD just after the start of the test "custom battle" with an error message. I'll make further attempts to resolve the issue.

Here a screen with the vanilla Venetian infantry with a new barbute:

[Casuir]

Hi Casuir
Yes this is hard coded into the converter, I have to alter the uv coords to split up the combined texture, so I have to be able to alter it back again to m2tw values. If you want to have all body variants on the attachmentset texture then you can call them equipment, but it'd be easier to rescale your body textures down a bit to fit them all onto the figure texture.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

I was thinking more in terms of memory usage than fitting stuff on them, the number of actual textures in m2tw is not that many compared to the number of units and mods with a lot of different units may run into resource problems if they're not careful. I was thinking more in the line of having different units being able to share different texture, ie model a has the same trousers and shields as model b, these could be put on one texture while the other parts would be put on th attachmentset texture which is shared by another model which uses say the same torso and weapons, just keeps resource usage tidied up a bit, also would allow more flexibilty for variations if you had a unit that required special treatment. I think its technically possible provided you have the textures in the right place (or the right folder specified in the modeldb), far as the engine is concerned its just taking two textures, putting them together and applying the uv data to that. Not a major thing but would be nice if it was possible

Btw, v nice model, you got it ingame yet?

@Luciano B what does the error say, also what texture is applied to the helmet in that screen? though that really shouldnt matter.

[alpaca]

Grumpy, out of interest: What did you make that model for?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Casuir

I was thinking more in terms of memory usage than fitting stuff on them, the number of actual textures in m2tw is not that many compared to the number of units and mods with a lot of different units may run into resource problems if they're not careful. I was thinking more in the line of having different units being able to share different texture, ie model a has the same trousers and shields as model b, these could be put on one texture while the other parts would be put on th attachmentset texture which is shared by another model which uses say the same torso and weapons, just keeps resource usage tidied up a bit, also would allow more flexibilty for variations if you had a unit that required special treatment. I think its technically possible provided you have the textures in the right place (or the right folder specified in the modeldb), far as the engine is concerned its just taking two textures, putting them together and applying the uv data to that. Not a major thing but would be nice if it was possible

Btw, v nice model, you got it ingame yet?

You can already do this, you just have to think outside the box. If, for example, you want to shift your leg textures to the attachmentset texture then you just re-class the legs groups as equipment(n) and they are mapped to that texture. As long as they are valid groups, the engine doesn't care what they represent just that the vertices are correctly assigned. You just have to be careful that you don't mix Legs and 'equipment' legs in the one mesh.

With the model, no I haven't got it in game yet, it's more a learning exercise for me because I haven't done any text editing yet - I've been kinda obssessed

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi LB

Thank you very much.

I exported the barbute from 3DS Max as a "Wavefront object", I imported it in Milkshape, I joined it to the "bone_head" and I assigned the same texture of the "figure". I renamed it "Helmet 4" and I copied the comment from the existing "Helmet 1" changing in the copied comment the number "1" to "4". Finally I exported all to .mesh format using the converter.

I made some attempts to put the modded model in game, with no result; the game CTD just after the start of the test "custom battle" with an error message. I'll make further attempts to resolve the issue.

It's hard to know what you've done wrong, from what you've written it sounds like you did the right things. Have you tried converting your new mesh back into Milkshape format (don't overwrite the one you were using as the basis) and looking through the values and comments?

If there is nothing obvious, post the file up to rapidshare or something similar, let me know where it is and I'll have a look.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Casuir]

Hi Casuir



You can already do this, you just have to think outside the box. If, for example, you want to shift your leg textures to the attachmentset texture then you just re-class the legs groups as equipment(n) and they are mapped to that texture. As long as they are valid groups, the engine doesn't care what they represent just that the vertices are correctly assigned. You just have to be careful that you don't mix Legs and 'equipment' legs in the one mesh.

With the model, no I haven't got it in game yet, it's more a learning exercise for me because I haven't done any text editing yet - I've been kinda obssessed

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

The engine doesnt assign equipment to every model though does it? Could the same be done for weapons/shields or would they have to remain on the attachmentset texture, i.e. flag them as attachments

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi alpaca

Grumpy, out of interest: What did you make that model for?

It was partly a technical exercise for me, because I've been so obssessed with the mesh converter I haven't paid attention to threads on putting new figures into the game. I haven't had much chance to follow other threads, much less play M2TW .

Also partly because this is my favourite period in history, mainly in eastern and northern Europe and I can visualise figures without a problem. I don't know if M2TW is up to playing this era due to a lack of combined arms but, gosh, I like the look of the era. I thought once I'd made a fairly generic figure for this era then it would be pretty easy to expand to other figures, essentially replace the weapons on this figure and you've got artillery crew and militia pikes, replace the wide brimmed hat with the original cossack hat and booted legs, then you've got Swedes in winter dress, etc, etc.

After I get this in game, I'll try my hand at an office, drummer and standard bearer and see if I can use the officer slots in the text files.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi Casuir

The engine doesnt assign equipment to every model though does it? Could the same be done for weapons/shields or would they have to remain on the attachmentset texture, i.e. flag them as attachments

If the 'Optional' flag (0 or 1 int the group comments) is set as 0 then the group is flagged as compulsory and given to each figure. Attachments are on the 'figure' texture, equipment are on the 'attachmentset' texture - don't blame me, I didn't come up with the semantics . Shields are a bit of a different matter because the engine needs to know they are there. I haven't tested it though so if you'd like to be an intrepid test pilot, you could change all the shields to equipment and see if this causes the game to crash .

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[KnightErrant]

Hi all,

I've posted my Python meshconverter here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92321

It does mounts and siege engines but has not been extensively
tested. Requires Python 2.5 to be installed to run it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi KE

Hi all,

I've posted my Python meshconverter here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92321

It does mounts and siege engines but has not been extensively
tested. Requires Python 2.5 to be installed to run it.

Well done, great work!!! (Now at least I won't feel so guilty about not putting out my code )

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi All

Here's the later musketeer in game (it took me a while but I finally tamed the text beast):-



I'm not happy with some of the vertex assignments on the waist band field sign so I'll redo them, I think. When I get some body and hat variations in, it'll look a lot better, I may set the field signs as optional so it only appears on 50% of figures.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[KnightErrant]

@GOM

Thanks! Nice looking unit btw.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi KE

@GOM

Thanks! Nice looking unit btw.

Yes the unit not's looking too bad, once it's finished I'll upload it as a shared resource for anybody that's working in that era.

Check out this :-



It's from a guy, SillyOldSod, at twcenter (his post http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...3&postcount=10 ). It cracks me up every time I look at it . I may have to ask him if I can use it.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Ashdnazg]

@GOM: If it's your favorite period in history you might be interested in this:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=69372

P.S. good job with the converters!

[Luciano B]

Thanks again for the quick responses ...I resolved the CTD problem ...I didn't know that I'd need to delete the two files data\descr_geography_new.txt and data\descr_geography_new.db after the unpacking process

...now I have another problem...
I modded the vanilla Venetian heavy Infantry, deleting all the existing helmets and adding the new barbute. But ingame all the modification are not present: I still have the vanilla unit with the original helmets (which I deleted) and without my new barbute ... is it possible that the game engine still reads the meshes stored in the packs and not the unpacked, modded meshes? ...suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[SHREDDER]

Luciano B

It is needed to write in properties of label of game " --io.file_first"

[Luciano B]

Thanks Shredder
...as you probably noticed I'm moving my first steps into M2TW modding....

Now all seems to work in the right way :)
Here the Venetian infantry with my barbute mixed up with the other vanilla helmets:


P.S. do you know how to get closer to the figures with the camera???

[Herkus]

great work
how did you mapped your barbute helmet? in max or milkshape?