Concerning Traits and Anti-Traits

[Afro Thunder]

OK, I know now that the trait and anti-trait system is based on a sliding scale, where if you gain points in a trait, you could also say that you have negative points in that particular trait's anti-trait. I would like to know if it's possible to use negative values in the triggers.

For example, in the following code:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents27
    WhenToTest DiplomacyMission

    Condition MissionSucceeded

    Affects GoodDiplomat  1  Chance  100 
    Affects GoodPrincess  1  Chance  100 

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents28
    WhenToTest DiplomacyMission

    Condition not MissionSucceeded

    Affects GoodDiplomat  -1  Chance  50 
    Affects GoodPrincess  -1  Chance  50

Would these two triggers work properly, or am I completely missing something? I know that Orientis' VnV fix uses something similar to this, but with a more complicated logic system.

[Foz]

Well, that won't have the exact effect you're after. The point of antitraits is not only that they'll cancel a point of the trait if there is one, but also that if there isn't, you actually gain that bad trait. So really you'd have to implement a bunch of logic checks to see whether or not the trait or the antitrait has any points, and then give or take points of trait, antitrait, or both, accordingly. As for your original question though, the -1 does take for the trait, provided it had points already - if not, nothing happens at all.

The reason it's so much trouble is that the antitrait mechanics are screwed up in the game. Instead of actually working on the sliding scale you described, they currently wipe out all points of the opposite trait, and you actually gain all points of the trait on top of that. So if you have 15 BattleChivalry and score 3 BattleDread for something you do, the current implementation wipes out all your BattleChivalry, and additionally gives you 3 points BattleDread on top of that. The logic testing and simple -1 usage is enough to fix a few of the more noticeable things like the agents most notably, since those triggers only deal in 1 point of anything at a time... but when you get to triggers that affect 5 different things at once, and in amounts that are not 1, the amount of careful figuring out you'd end up doing just isn't worth it, it would take forever to fix the file that way.

If you're exploring ways to make the system work like its supposed to, I've got an antitrait fix that actually strips the antitrait lines out of the file and implements it all correctly using triggers. It adds a lot to the file, but was extremely easy to implement. Basically, it just lets both traits have points, but if it ever finds that they do at the same time, it removes 1 from each of them until at least 1 is zero, thus accomplishing what the mechanic is supposed to do. The link is in my sig.

[Afro Thunder]

Actually, I'm already using Orientis' VnV fix, which is a very good piece of work, but I've noticed that there are still some things missing with that one. For example, diplomats can still lose all their traits if they fail one bribery mission. That, and I think some traits are too easy to gain. Hope I don't sound like I'm bashing someone else's mod, because I'm not.

Anyway, I'm thinking of giving your fix a shot. Does yours include the fix that lets new generals start with 3 Piety and new princesses start with 3 Charm?