Faction Thread 2: Vampire Counts

[ElCid]

sorry by the one of “she”, but is that the translator translates bad.

the undeads have religion?

[uanime5]

IF this can be done right then maybe priests as Necros will work... The VC (and TK I guess) can recruit cheap undead mercenaries in regions with an undead religion of 50% (representing the level of dark magic) Of course, this should only be the basic troops but still not sure if that's possible. Forgive me, brainstorming out loud

I'd like to point out that in the vanillia M2TW you can set mercenaries to only be recruitable by factions that are a defined religion eg Catholic or Islam. Only in Kingdoms can you restrict recruitment by how religious certain areas are. Thus you could allow the VC or TK to recruit undead mercenaries in the Empire but you could not stop them from doing this.

[Love Muscle]

I'm new here been watching mod for a very long time also being playing warhammer tabletop as Vampire counts for a while. I just got a few suggestions that you can take or disregard as you see fit.

-First in the campaign i believe that vampire generals shouldnt die of old age and shouldnt age. I dont know if this is possible but it sorta makes sense IMO.

-Second generals should all have night fighting bonus traits once again sorta makes sense for vampirism...

-Third probably little bit more spun out idea is a different form of currency for VC and perhaps others. Like instead of cash something like sacrifices/magic/corpses/blood. Dunno if that is possible but...

-Fourth undead should definetly have no ranged units. As a tabletop VC player it has been a given that i had no ranged units except for banshee and to add skeleton archers would sorta reck the feel of them. Just my opinion but yeah.

-All units should cause fear as fear is a VERY big part of a VC army on TT game. Also all units maybe bar ghouls should be immune to morale. This may seem overpowered but the lack of range should maybe alsmot even this out. Once again this reflects the TT where this 2 was a big part of the game. I also seem to remember in the RTW release of warhammer the demons took damage from loss of morale or in TT terms "Instability". This may apply to undead as well.

-Just a question- can unit descriptions been taken from the army books or is that illegal?

-Although i play Strigio and blood dragon armies on the TT i believe that Von Carstein should be the only bloodline available. They are the only ones amibitious enough to try to "take over the world'. Maybe your starting leader should be manfred von carstein? Depends what time in the warhammer world you are basing this game on eg be4 or after Storm of CHaos..

-No diplomats/merchants unless you turn merchants into necromancers or
something with a change of currency it might make sense... dunno

-Somehow conjure storms/floods???????

-Immune to plague but spread it in regions their armies pass through.... As well as skaven...

-No generals body guard just stick him in a unit like in the TT....

-Oh and really looking forward to dire wolves they where one of my fav units um dunno how u could make but use RTW attack dog something like that without owners...

Thats just my suggestions most are probably stupid but anyways i signed up and put my 5 c in :) Wooo cant wait awesome mod!

[Silaris]

I completely disagree with the idea of giving Vampire Counts no ranged units, it makes no sense when we have seen Skeleton Archers in previous editions of Warhammer. I personally think they should be in, but should be very ineffective.

Anyway, I have an idea, not entirely sure how possible it is to do. But perhaps have Undead mercenaries appearing in a territory for a few turns after you defeat an enemy force. So you can raise more troops as you march to war, just as would happen.

[Bwian]

As far as missile units go, I had planned to give the VC's a very minimal missile ability. Some javelin throwing is all I had lined up. The Tomb Kings have extensive archer capability, and I saw the lack of missile troops as a major differential in terms of gameplay for this faction.

Von Carsteins were the planned focus for the faction. They have the right sort of structure and back story to work in a TW mod.

Age and death would, naturally, have to be avoided. There should be no ageing if htat is possible. If it isn't, then we need to look at ways of making them live for a really long time unless actually killed in battle. This would apply the the other undead factions too.

There are some flags to set for causing fear, and this would be something that would be needed to offset the relative weakness of quite a few of the undead units. Lots to balance...but important considerations for getting the 'feel' of a faction right.

Description wise, we cannot copy copyrighted material, but we can word it our own way based on accepted canon facts. This is what we have been doing so far.

Now...Dire Wolves....would love to have them....and they can be done. It would have to be a 'cavalry' unit and there is a slight side-effect problem, where a general model could end up riding on the thing if I am not very careful... I have got around these problems before, and will need to do so again for some other similar units, where a stock approach won't work ( so they don't carry siege ladders, or push towers etc ) and also to get them behaving like a wolf / swarm of insects / chaos hound etc. I can't make more than 2 units a wardogs/pigs ... and one of those is already assigned to Squigs!

[Enthes]

will TK and undead have morale? as i think fleeing should only happen when general flees / dies

[uanime5]

Age and death would, naturally, have to be avoided. There should be no ageing if htat is possible. If it isn't, then we need to look at ways of making them live for a really long time unless actually killed in battle. This would apply the the other undead factions too.

All factions have the same age limits and age at the same rate. Though it is possible to prolong the life of the generals this would affect all factions, not just the undead ones. I don't know of any trait or trigger that can extend lifespan, but it is possible to increase a general's hit points (making them harder to kill in battle).

[Love Muscle]

Just had a funny idea that would be fun in multiplayer :P.

With spirit hosts what if you didnt give them a model at all.... They are completely invisible but can still attack. They would need to be like a weak swarm but capable of holding a unit. I dunno where i am going with this but i reckon it would be fun having a couple of units of invisible dudes floating around annoying enemy archers and war machine crews. Just throwing it out there :) Probably wont work that well against AI but maybe you could set it so they are always hiding even when moving. Or down from that have them hide anwhere. Of course they can still be attacked and killed but... Perhaps even a small squad of Banshees and give them like the aztec war chant ability or something i dunno. Hmmm no1 has mentioned Banshees yet :-)

[Enthes]

i think that is a great idea, i can imagine now you looking at a battle field only to find your best uinit stuck at the back fighting something only they can see. would be great

[locked_thread]

For me, I'm mostly interested in seeing a working VC campaign up and running, even with a bare-bones unit/tech tree.

So I vote for starting with just 3 unit types to get the ball rolling: Zombies, Skeletons, and General's unit.

Once it's possible to play a VC campaign, then gradually add units and supporting improvements. If possible, give VC generals a unique set of VnVs such that they tend toward very powerful traits - making their presence on the battlefield vital toward beefing up their weak troops. (Mirroring the "crumbling" effect in Warhammer.)

[Bwian]

We have plenty of 'bare bones' units

[A Norseman]

yea cyan.. Bwians amazing team will make shure there is alot more for you to play with than the zombies and skeletons.. wights and grave guards are only a few of the more exiting units..

[locked_thread]

yea cyan.. Bwians amazing team will make shure there is alot more for you to play with than the zombies and skeletons.. wights and grave guards are only a few of the more exiting units..

The reason I proposed restricting the units.... given the history of other ambitious mods, I'm concerned we'll end up with playable battles but not a complete campaign game.

Edit: 8 months later and still no release.... I rest my case.....

[Bwian]

Don;t worry... we already have that many or more units for the Empire, Dwarves, Orcs, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts and Chaos factions. We only need add Skaven, Lizards and Elves up to a basic level to be there or there abouts.

I need the part finished campaign map from Casuir to finish off, and we are campaign worthy. Build tree is already being roughed out...and I can see a campaign taking shape.

[A Norseman]

To realy make this the best mod ever.. ask KK to use his SS data.. that man has realy figgured out how to make the ai work

[Phats]

Not sure how much use it will be to you but SS uses Lusted's Campaign and Battle AI

[Bwian]

When I get a minute, I will drop Lusted a PM and ask him what he changed.

[locked_thread]

Build tree is already being roughed out...and I can see a campaign taking shape.

Awesome.... can't wait!!

[Revan-Shan]

-The skelletons in this picture
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9660/new1ob0.jpg
I saw sth, It's a minor problem but... well, the shields, have a skull, they should have a skull, but not a skull surrounded by a gear, thats from wrahammer 40.000

[A Norseman]

Necrooons !!!

Well, i dont care much.. it looks medieval to me,. :P

[Enthes]

i have to agree with revan the gear does look a bit weird

[Krazysigmarite]

Can we have the battle of Hel Fen as a historical battle, where you play as the daring Ostermark and Stirland Halberdiers who hold off the legions of undead, until the Reiksguard land their decisive flank attack?

That'd be an awesome demo battle!

[DrZoidberg]

-The skelletons in this picture
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9660/new1ob0.jpg
I saw sth, It's a minor problem but... well, the shields, have a skull, they should have a skull, but not a skull surrounded by a gear, thats from wrahammer 40.000

Want some cheese with the whine. That's a minute detail it's hardly worth ones effort to mention. So this particular squad showed some creative licence. They have gears in Warhammer to.

[Krazysigmarite]

I donno, the gear-skull is the symbol of the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40,000 and is easily recognizable to 40k fans, which might be confusing while playing a WFB mod.

[Alletun]

if you want something changed i suggest that you dont just say you dont like it, but also suggest what it should be changed into. Also provide ample and good references / concepts. Thats the only way a modder will know what to change the subject in to.

just my 2 cents

[Myrddraal]

I don't know what everyone's complaining about. Revan-shan is pointing out a minor error and has given an alternative. This = constructive criticism. So the rest of you can stop whining

[DrZoidberg]

I don't know what everyone's complaining about. Revan-shan is pointing out a minor error and has given an alternative. This = constructive criticism. So the rest of you can stop whining

You're absolutely right. Sorry Revan-shan.

[Revan-Shan]

Just take a look at them:

[alexader]

And what?you think bwian creates his units straight from his mind?C'MON,Bwian knows to mod and knows what the right models sould be,he knows about warhammer and it isn't so difficult to open the GW webpage you know.that you don't know Revan-Shan is that it needs more time and more work.not the right photo that is truly to easy to find.ok?if we waited for you to give us the pictures we wouldn't even have started the mod.believe me the webpage is truly to easy to find......

[Silaris]

Why are people bitching about someone making some criticisms? Trust me, if you want to make a good mod, you need someone there who will point out some mistakes, otherwise it will not be up to the standard that it could be.