Ships .....

[DrZoidberg]

It seems perfectly reasonable to me. Reptiles tend to keep growing throughout their lives, and so some very old individuals could reach huge sizes, so dragon turtles of different ages could be used in different roles: juvenile turtles with, say, 7 saurus crew could function as light attack craft, the 15-saurus crew could be the archetype Dragon Turtle, but there could also be rare, ancient Dragon Turtles with perhaps 30 saurus capacity.

Some of the ships look quite nasty (seen those Slaanesh blade things? Crazy!), but some do seem rather daft, like the floating necropolis. Just go with what you think's most suitable.

ok, I'll buy that. According to Warhammer lore the sea is jam packed with nastyness and nothing gets ancient in it. But still, they're rare, so I guess it could work.

How about names? "Small", "medium" and "large" doesn't work for me. These are menacing sea monsters and not an order of fries. I want the name to convey what they are. Some poetic licence.

How about. Snapping Dragon Turtle, (young/light) Bull Dragon Turtle, (mature/heavy) and Ancient Dragon Turtle, (ancient/flag)?


Yeah, chaos is covered as far as ships are concearned, and they're pretty cool. The Khorne shark is a bit silly, but all the other ones I think will work great. I love the Slaanesh perfume censer ship seducing enemy crews. Looks great to. The Chaos ships are official Warhammer canon so I'm keeping them as they are.

[Taranaich]

ok, I'll buy that. According to Warhammer lore the sea is jam packed with nastyness and nothing gets ancient in it. But still, they're rare, so I guess it could work.

If any sea creature could have a chance at a free bus pass, I'd put my money on the one with the inbuilt armour.

How about names? "Small", "medium" and "large" doesn't work for me. These are menacing sea monsters and not an order of fries. I want the name to convey what they are. Some poetic licence.

How about. Snapping Dragon Turtle, (young/light) Bull Dragon Turtle, (mature/heavy) and Ancient Dragon Turtle, (ancient/flag)?

Sounds good.

Yeah, chaos is covered as far as ships are concearned, and they're pretty cool. The Khorne shark is a bit silly, but all the other ones I think will work great. I love the Slaanesh perfume censer ship seducing enemy crews. Looks great to. The Chaos ships are official Warhammer canon so I'm keeping them as they are.

Bwahahah, eeexcellent. *steeples fingers*

[DrZoidberg]

Considering the masses of posts regarding this the last couple of days, I'm overwhelmed by the huge interest of these obscure little details of the game, as ships.

Ok, I get it. Nobody cares and I can do what I want to with the WH fleets. But now I know at least.

[DrZoidberg]

I even found a handy Man O'War ship comparison to help us with making the stats for it.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...r/cccmanow.htm

[Emblemseeker]

I'm forced to make my opinion heard here....

High Elves should have the fastest ships (if thats possible) and some nice sea trade, what with being the dominant seagoing civilization. (its true, in the army book anyways) They were the first to map the oceans and have been doing so for millenniums. They also have very powerful ships, crewed by the highly skilled Lothern seaguard who use both spear and bow (not sure if that means anything in m2tw) and are equipped with the eagles claw bolt thrower, which is really good. Although other sides may have massive steel plates and unpredictable cannons no other nation has crew/navigators close to as good as the high elves (save perhaps the dark elves)

conclusion: High elves should have quick/powerful/cost effective ships, maybe slightly less defense to represent less crew/no thick armor plates, maybe on average best ships IMO (I have NO idea what numbers the m2tw uses tho)

Also, Dark Elve's Black Arcs should be
THE MOST POWERFUL SHIPS IN THE GAME.
According to the descriptions I have heard of them (accounts given at the end of the sundering and in the wars to follow) black arcs are ENTIRE CITY FORTRESSES enchanted to float upon the water. So they should be super tough (its got a freaking city wall for armor! and in the books they mention that its a big deal when one gets destroyed), Super powerful (lots of witches and dozens/hundred of bolt throwers), un-godly expensive and take forever before new ones become available (making a new one requires either building a new castle or re-enchanting a grounded one, storyline-wise), and slow as thick molasses on an Alaskan winter night (well actually I have no proof on that, but you have to make them fair somehow) but because of their rarity I don't think they should be the star map icon for the dark elves, they have way more corsair ships and are primarily piratical seafarers

(wow, didn't expect my "black arcs should be really good" thing to be bigger than my "High Elves should get among the best ships" thing)
(In case you didn't notice, I am a firm believer of the supremacy of the elves over all. Be they Dark, Wood or the Supreme Asur)
(I have also been watching this mod for a while in the hopes that it would own, turns out I was right, you guys rock )

[Myrddraal]

Welcome Emblemseeker!

[DrZoidberg]

I'm forced to make my opinion heard here....

High Elves should have the fastest ships (if thats possible) and some nice sea trade, what with being the dominant seagoing civilization. (its true, in the army book anyways) They were the first to map the oceans and have been doing so for millenniums. They also have very powerful ships, crewed by the highly skilled Lothern seaguard who use both spear and bow (not sure if that means anything in m2tw) and are equipped with the eagles claw bolt thrower, which is really good. Although other sides may have massive steel plates and unpredictable cannons no other nation has crew/navigators close to as good as the high elves (save perhaps the dark elves)

conclusion: High elves should have quick/powerful/cost effective ships, maybe slightly less defense to represent less crew/no thick armor plates, maybe on average best ships IMO (I have NO idea what numbers the m2tw uses tho)

Also, Dark Elve's Black Arcs should be
THE MOST POWERFUL SHIPS IN THE GAME.
According to the descriptions I have heard of them (accounts given at the end of the sundering and in the wars to follow) black arcs are ENTIRE CITY FORTRESSES enchanted to float upon the water. So they should be super tough (its got a freaking city wall for armor! and in the books they mention that its a big deal when one gets destroyed), Super powerful (lots of witches and dozens/hundred of bolt throwers), un-godly expensive and take forever before new ones become available (making a new one requires either building a new castle or re-enchanting a grounded one, storyline-wise), and slow as thick molasses on an Alaskan winter night (well actually I have no proof on that, but you have to make them fair somehow) but because of their rarity I don't think they should be the star map icon for the dark elves, they have way more corsair ships and are primarily piratical seafarers

(wow, didn't expect my "black arcs should be really good" thing to be bigger than my "High Elves should get among the best ships" thing)
(In case you didn't notice, I am a firm believer of the supremacy of the elves over all. Be they Dark, Wood or the Supreme Asur)
(I have also been watching this mod for a while in the hopes that it would own, turns out I was right, you guys rock )

My job is simply to write the little descriptions of the ships. The unit cards. So as far as stats are concerned I'm a humble advisor. But I'm compiling a list of recommendations if there is information to be found. Man O'War spells out each factions strength and weaknesses in detail. Eleven ships are cost effective and fast. But also have low firepower and are fairly frail. But they do have long range. So they can beat a stronger opponent by just continuously peppering them with their swivel mounted repeating bolt throwers, as they keep their distance. But it's not much of an advantage when they meet a ship like the Dwarf Drednaught, Orc Hulk or much faster flying ship of Tzeentch.

The Black Arc, is actually just one specific fortress, (but I've interpreted it as a type) which because of an elven magical flood caused a large part of land to break free. Dark Elf wizards thought fast and kept it magically afloat, with such strong magic that it became permanent. But if you know anything about how magic "leaks" in Warhammer, they do best in keeping it away from anything civilized for any length of time.

[Jonlissla]

and slow as thick molasses on an Alaskan winter night

No offense, but that wouldn't really be an effective ship. I mean, sure, they would be very powerful, but it won't really matter if you can't catch the enemy ships.

Using it as an immovable blockade ship might work though.....

[Underway]

The Black Arc, is actually just one specific fortress, (but I've interpreted it as a type) which because of an elven magical flood caused a large part of land to break free. Dark Elf wizards thought fast and kept it magically afloat, with such strong magic that it became permanent. But if you know anything about how magic "leaks" in Warhammer, they do best in keeping it away from anything civilized for any length of time.

As a long time player of Man-o-war and a Dark Elf fleet efficianado this is only partially correct.

When the Sundering took place and the massive waves smashed into the Nagrathe citadels, many citadels were created that became Black Arcs. The largest of which formed the cores of Naggarond, and Clar Karond.

If you read the history of the Dark Elves you will notice there are a large number of different Black Arcs. A few names for fun..

-Jade Palace of Pain - Used to create the reborn Anlec (Malekith's ancient capital) in Ulthuanan during the latest invasion of Ulthuan
-Palace of Oblivion
-The Kraken Spire
-Obsidian Demise
-Talon of Agony (sunk by HE Dragonship using a Starblade Ram)
-Poison Palace
-Naggor (of Malus Darkblade comic's fame, renamed Nagor after the Mast Rebellion)

Man-o-war Dark elf fleet consists of

Doomreavers - sea chariots pulled by Seadrakes, they have no shooting ability but can be goaded into a ship destroying frenzy

Deathfortresses - small keeps or towers built upon the back of seadragons (don't breath fire). They shoot the dreaded Reaper Bolt thrower from the numerous towers.

Black Arc - Massive floating castles and keeps. Deadly in boarding actions, protected by sorcerous mists to foil aiming attempts, have a beastgate to hold the rest of the DE fleet inside (they are like iceburgs underneath). Protected by a maze of traps to foil enemy boarding actions.

Other DE ships in the Warhammer canon:

-Slave powered galley's. From the 6th ed DE book pg 57, fast and powered by slave oarsmen these are designed to go and assist in raiding enemy settlements as they carry more storage space than the Hydra ships.

-Hydra Ship. From Generals compendium and Black Gobbo online magazine. Fast catamaran that carries Corsairs. Not very sturdy in combat and no warmachines but excellent for closing quickly and initiating boarding actions.

Dark Elves are also known for ensorcelling other types of sea monsters to guard their oceanic approaches.

[Underway]

No offense, but that wouldn't really be an effective ship. I mean, sure, they would be very powerful, but it won't really matter if you can't catch the enemy ships.

Using it as an immovable blockade ship might work though.....

Actually in the MoW game they are fairly quick, massive bank of sails have them move 9" with the wind (fairly fast, only HE ships move faster at 6" in move phase and 6" in shoot phase for a 12" total) and without the wind they always move 6" by magical propulsion. With the wind they can actually outpace their seamonster escorts!!

They are also able to push enemy ships out of the way without colliding, very effective way to barge into an enemy formation and give them broadsides/boarding actions from every direction. The Black Arc is by far the most dangerous ship in Man-o-war. Their support ships however leave something to be desired in a number of circumstances.

[DrZoidberg]

As a long time player of Man-o-war and a Dark Elf fleet efficianado this is only partially correct.

When the Sundering took place and the massive waves smashed into the Nagrathe citadels, many citadels were created that became Black Arcs. The largest of which formed the cores of Naggarond, and Clar Karond.

If you read the history of the Dark Elves you will notice there are a large number of different Black Arcs. A few names for fun..

-Jade Palace of Pain - Used to create the reborn Anlec (Malekith's ancient capital) in Ulthuanan during the latest invasion of Ulthuan
-Palace of Oblivion
-The Kraken Spire
-Obsidian Demise
-Talon of Agony (sunk by HE Dragonship using a Starblade Ram)
-Poison Palace
-Naggor (of Malus Darkblade comic's fame, renamed Nagor after the Mast Rebellion)

Man-o-war Dark elf fleet consists of

Doomreavers - sea chariots pulled by Seadrakes, they have no shooting ability but can be goaded into a ship destroying frenzy

Deathfortresses - small keeps or towers built upon the back of seadragons (don't breath fire). They shoot the dreaded Reaper Bolt thrower from the numerous towers.

Black Arc - Massive floating castles and keeps. Deadly in boarding actions, protected by sorcerous mists to foil aiming attempts, have a beastgate to hold the rest of the DE fleet inside (they are like iceburgs underneath). Protected by a maze of traps to foil enemy boarding actions.

Other DE ships in the Warhammer canon:

-Slave powered galley's. From the 6th ed DE book pg 57, fast and powered by slave oarsmen these are designed to go and assist in raiding enemy settlements as they carry more storage space than the Hydra ships.

-Hydra Ship. From Generals compendium and Black Gobbo online magazine. Fast catamaran that carries Corsairs. Not very sturdy in combat and no warmachines but excellent for closing quickly and initiating boarding actions.

Dark Elves are also known for ensorcelling other types of sea monsters to guard their oceanic approaches.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

[Jonlissla]

Actually in the MoW game they are fairly quick, massive bank of sails have them move 9" with the wind (fairly fast, only HE ships move faster at 6" in move phase and 6" in shoot phase for a 12" total) and without the wind they always move 6" by magical propulsion. With the wind they can actually outpace their seamonster escorts!!

They are also able to push enemy ships out of the way without colliding, very effective way to barge into an enemy formation and give them broadsides/boarding actions from every direction. The Black Arc is by far the most dangerous ship in Man-o-war. Their support ships however leave something to be desired in a number of circumstances.

I feel beaten....



Right, so you mean that DE got a huge 5-Star hotel with wheels and sniper positions, and a big-ass engine to outrun a Ferrari? That's it, I'm gonna stick to land skirmishes instead!

[corvion]

hello everyone i've been following this mod for several months now and i am incredibly impressed with both the quality and quantity of work done, you guys are awesome

although it looks like you've got some names for all the ships i recently read the defenders of ulthuan and the DE use a ship called a Raven (appears to be similar the the HE eagleships) anyways just thought i would put that out there for you i have quite a few fluff novels and army books (not all up to date but...) so let me know if there is any info you need and i can try to dig it up

keep up the great work

[DrZoidberg]

hello everyone i've been following this mod for several months now and i am incredibly impressed with both the quality and quantity of work done, you guys are awesome

although it looks like you've got some names for all the ships i recently read the defenders of ulthuan and the DE use a ship called a Raven (appears to be similar the the HE eagleships) anyways just thought i would put that out there for you i have quite a few fluff novels and army books (not all up to date but...) so let me know if there is any info you need and i can try to dig it up

keep up the great work

FYI, we're not doing all the ships. Just three for each faction. It's a question of practicality and usefulness in the game. Naval warfare isn't exactly a huge feature in TW.