MTW/VI Vs MTW2

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I dont want this to become a battle over which game is better. I know it appears to be from the title but what I really want to know is what parts of VI would you like to see re introduced in MTW2 and what things did they actually improve in MTW2 over VI. Im sure many of these have been covered in other threads. So Ill just throw up a few.

Things better in VI that should be in MTW2

the chat system both in the lobby and in the game

Balanced hilly maps

Attack Defend

Weather option


Things that are better in MTW2


You dont have to wait to redirect your army and keep it in formation

Its easier to locate your army exactly as the cursor is now the middle of your front line, not the center of your army.

In deployment all you need do is click on you units in the order you want and thats they way they line up when you drag a line.

Needless to say HA are far better and more realistic.



Again lets try to make this constructive not destructive. I dont want to hear how MTW2 is messed up but what we can easily do to make it better.

This is for the mp community only plz. In that I only want to hear how to make that better.

[Ghost of Rom]

Hey Gawaine! Nice post.

Fatigue has been fixed.

Vi was a bit of pain with the excessive fatigue. Just sitting around for a while drops all you troops 2 bars after a while. Try hitting anything with your archers when they are fatigued! Mtw2 is quite nice, you can run around quite a bit before exhaustion hits your troops. I've seen em go back all the way to fresh with a bit of rest.

Muskets don't skirmish by default!

If you ever tried fighting an ai army consisting of muskets you know what I mean. Stand and bloody fight!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Other things from VI that should be in MTW2

The fatigue bar
Letting you know who has and has not deployed
A number rating for morale
Being able to move the annonying messages from the center of your screen in the in the deployment phase.
Get rid of the spy bug. You know the push down on the mouse wheel button.
F-1 should give you the same screen as in VI
Hold position hold formation

All these things were good in VI and for the life of me dont know why they removed them

[Puzz3D]

All these things were good in VI and for the life of me dont know why they removed them

I told you why good features were removed, and you're going to be waiting until hell freezes over for them to come back.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I told you why good features were removed, and you're going to be waiting until hell freezes over for them to come back.

There is no reason I can see that the new engine cant handle these things. Please tell me again. In fact it has nothing to do with the battle engine in most cases.

[Puzz3D]

It's due to the market that Creative Assembly is now targeting. For instance, they flatly refused to fix the mouseover info with the reasoning that it would only be of interest to hardcore players. So, you can forget about making suggestions that are only of interest to the hardcore group. All of my suggestions fall into this category. I made some suggestions in the official multiplayer feedback thread at .com, but I know they won't be implemented.

[Stig]

Oh, now now Puzz, don't be so sad.



When you mouse over units you see loads of info, in RTW and in MTW2 ... when are you going to buy the game?

[Noir]

When you mouse over units you see loads of info, in RTW and in MTW2

The point i believe, is that the information was displayed in older titles in the unit cards - you could immediately see in what state the unit was without making a mouse over.

It was even more contradictory since the action in the newer games is generally faster leaving even less time for mouse overs during battle - effectively you are playing more on intuition and information from the battle screen in the new games.

I guess the rationale is to reach a graphical level that the graphics tell you all you need to know without knowing numbers, but the move was premature because in MP you play zoomed out generally and can't waste time looking at graphical details that tell you that your unit is "losing badly" for example.

There was also a comprehensive summary of all unit information including morale, displayed by pressing F1 - that was also taken out. That would have been very useful for SP modders and the like for figuring out engine workings in addition to MP players.

These would be really welcomed features if they are to return, i believe.

Many Thanks

Noir

[Stig]

Well no matter how far zoomed out you are you can always see some dirt on the men after long fighting (ie. you see less colour) and the more dirt the more fighting and the weaker the men are.

[Noir]

Well no matter how far zoomed out you are you can always see some dirt on the men after long fighting (ie. you see less colour) and the more dirt the more fighting and the weaker the men are.

Does that indicate morale, fatigue or any other parameter? What i mean to ask is can you tell in what respect precisely they are weaker?

Many Thanks

Noir

[Stig]

Well if you see some men that are dirty, and you see little of them are left you mouse over them to see the stats you want to know about? It just gives you one parameter, either dirty or not.


And unless you're some very hardcore player, who doesn't play this game for fun, that's all you need.

[Noir]

Well if you see some men that are dirty, and you see little of them are left you mouse over them to see the stats you want to know about? It just gives you one parameter, either dirty or not.

In other words it seems that you say that the mouse over is necessary rgardeless of graphics ie verify my initial point and also that you don't have a clue what parameter it affects and so what information the dirt gives. Thanks

And unless you're some very hardcore player, who doesn't play this game for fun, that's all you need.

I play entirely for fun - but losing or winning without knowing why ain't my definition of fun in any game, sport or other activity that remotely involves competition - it seems to be yours, and that's fine.

Many Thanks

Noir

[Stig]

Well no, when I see some dirty men I know they are weaker.

However I to see why I need to mouse over them. But I can expect them to be weaker, and for a professional noob like me that's enough.

[Puzz3D]

I'll buy the game when Creative Assembly restores the multiplayer game to its former quality which, as far as I can see, will be when hell freezes over. Certainly, M2TW is a lost cause at this point, but there are also serious doubts concerning the next game after the expansion.

There is no requirement that I own the game to make comments about it. I can read what people who do own it and what CA says just fine. Unfortunately, the design of the engine limits network performance. Why would I want to purchase something like that when I currently play a Total War multiplayer game that is less limited in its network performance, and has better playbalance, tactical depth and unit visibility?

The mouse over info I'm talking about is the numerical info on upgraded units in the army purchase screen. It was wrong in RTW, and what I've read in the SP forum suggests it's still wrong in M2TW.

On the battlefield, distinguishing 4 states of fatigue and morale is sufficient if those are the transition levels where combat performance changes.

[Stig]

Why is this game so bad, if people are enjoying playing it?

CA isn't making this game for you.

They had these choices:
We make a game Puzz likes and earn 50,-
We make a game everyone but a couple of guys like and earn a couple of millions
We do both, but that takes so long (finding something that both like) that it can't be done

[Noir]

CA isn't making this game for you.

They had these choices:
We make a game Puzz likes and earn 50,-
We make a game everyone but a couple of guys like and earn a couple of millions
We do both, but that takes so long (finding something that both like) that it can't be done

An interesting perspective - i would gladly applaud it if you had a CA badge/avatar.

Unfortunately for you, and for those that read your repetitive posts, you haven't.

Many Thanks

Noir

[Stig]

Atleast I'm not as repetitive as someone who hasn't even got the game and still comments on it.

I know what I'm talking about.

[zaher]

Well if you see some men that are dirty, and you see little of them are left you mouse over them to see the stats you want to know about? It just gives you one parameter, either dirty or not.


And unless you're some very hardcore player, who doesn't play this game for fun, that's all you need.

This isnt dirt lol. Its blood. This indicates that this men beeng hit once at least, but was saved by his armor or shield. Next hit mean death for this men while may not be lethal for men in shiny new armor in the same unit.

And i agree, why CA removed great features? I think, with their humanity the next game will be for blind players or may be for animals? Why ?

[Nikodil]

Why is this game so bad, if people are enjoying playing it?

CA isn't making this game for you.

They had these choices:
We make a game Puzz likes and earn 50,-
We make a game everyone but a couple of guys like and earn a couple of millions
We do both, but that takes so long (finding something that both like) that it can't be done

If talking about MP vs SP (and not Puzz vs the-rest-of-the-world) I would take this one step further, and say it's theoretically impossible to do both. Why? Because MP and SP are conflicting concepts. One is social, the other one anti-social. It's not only about competing development resources (e.g. strenghtening AI vs networking). When designing a social game, you have to start out with the social aspects. The balance between skill and luck is vital, otherwise the game won't be fun. This is not even important for SP, because you are not comparing yourself with the AI in that respect. Moreover, for MP team battles, the key to winning the game is good communication. This is a function that's not even possible in SP. You also need to communicate to arrange games, and even more important, say thanks afterwards (if I'm not mistaken this is another feature that got worse with time). The list can be made long.

A thought, how come there are about 8.5 million people meeting online in WoW and only a few hundreds in TW?

[Stig]

how come there are about 8.5 million people meeting online in WoW and only a few hundreds in TW?

Because the game is made for SP, simple as that. It just also happens to have a MP option.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Again I say if they really cared they would just make two seperate patches. One for Sp and one for Mp. But if they dont care what can we do? Im amazed they dont see the possibilities. They are so close.

[Nikodil]

Because the game is made for SP, simple as that. It just also happens to have a MP option.

Yup, i know, was being rhetoric. What I meant was, a target is 8.5 million players online is not impossible to achive. It's not that there isn't a market. The TW customer base is large enough to prove that, Blizzard clearly found out a way to make money, and although different genres both TW and WoW are games where you go out and fight with and against other people, how hard can it be... But I'm afraid I'm getting slightly off-topic...

[Stig]

Have you seen the results of the polls?
How many players care about MP?

And than you see why CA never bothers, they think it's not worth it.

[Nikodil]

No, you mean this one:


So it appears to be about 50% that are interested in MP.

[Stig]

Have you ever played online?

And I only take the 50+ as proper MP players (like the guys in this forum and myself). That's 15,8%.

44,8% even say they're not interested.

[Nikodil]

44,8% not interested => 55,2% are/would/could be interested
i.e a majority (ok subtracting the pacifists get about 50%)

Note that 1712 (37%) answered that they don't play online because of problems. Note how well it corresponds with those (34%) who say they played 2-49 times.

Yeah, I've played online, but was a long time ago now.

[Mars]

Why is this game so bad, if people are enjoying playing it?

CA isn't making this game for you.

They had these choices:
We make a game Puzz likes and earn 50,-
We make a game everyone but a couple of guys like and earn a couple of millions
We do both, but that takes so long (finding something that both like) that it can't be done

Ah come on.... U will find some people who enjoy eating sand from the sahara...what does it tell us?


Its nice too see some enjoy the current TW game, but dont tell us that the game is insane good, just coz u find some who enjoy it.

Its different maybe, but for sure the deepness how it was before is gone and u can easy find the weakness of the current game.


Already VI was dumped down from STW, alone the fatique problem was terrible.
I won most games not about great movement, i wont most games by tire out the enemy units = less skill needed, low movement and just push other to do what u want.


anyway, even if u can accept the "different" playing, what u cant accept is the insane lag...

mars

[Stig]

Aye agree about lag. But that's all due to the internet connections this game demands, but with the current engine that can't be solved.


Untill they finally decide to get away from the GameSpy Beta version they are using.

[Mars]

Aye agree about lag. But that's all due to the internet connections this game demands, but with the current engine that can't be solved.


Untill they finally decide to get away from the GameSpy Beta version they are using.

No, this has nothing to do with Gamespy. CA isnt able to create a game, like hundreds of other company, which is running without lag and problems from day one!


I mean, on what drugs u have to be, to not notice some lag while playtest it on average computer over internet?!?

This is the real problem with this company, i dont blame em for the gamemecanics, i blame em to know abotu the problems and dont do anything against.

They 100% did know about lag before release! But they decided to DONT do anything about it! This is a serious problem!


We have to split up stuff, the gamemecanics, were u will tons of player who like the current game and also the same amount, who dont like it. And than u need to see the basics for every game!

CA clearly fail to solve the basics, they always need months to get a patch out. Even with insane bugs, they need ages to solve it. Mostly they need at least 6 months to make the game playable at least for online.

Its all determind to the Singe Player and campaigns, majority of these customer dont notice the most bugs anyway, nor they ever will notice that there is lag if u play online.

CA should skip the online part of the TW serie. The 5% Mplayer cause 90% of the complains and trouble....

Mars

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

Aye agree about lag. But that's all due to the internet connections this game demands, but with the current engine that can't be solved.


Untill they finally decide to get away from the GameSpy Beta version they are using.

The problem must be MTW2 and not gamespy. In MTW VI I can have 4vs4 with 10000 soldiers without lag and Gamespy. Why should I have lag with MTW2 and 2000 soldiers? The engine of MTW2 isn't able to generate big battles lagfree. But the engine can render colorful panties and flowers on the meadow.