England: Turn by turn (links provided here)

[Guyus Germanicus]

F a s c i n a t i n g, PG. . . . . . You've obviously got this game's number.

Just out of curiosity, and if it's not violating trade secrets, how did you come by this idea of the blitz? Was it just an intuition based on what you knew about the game features? Did something just click for you one day while slogging through a routine long campaign?

It's serious risk taking to launch out the way you do with your faction. Frederick the Great could certainly appreciate your audacity. And that's what wins real life wars.

My guess is, CA never expected anyone to play the game this way. And you are absolutely right. The AI certainly could have a faction crusade it's way to your front door just as you have blitz'd them. So you're certainly not playing unfairly.

It makes me wonder if anyone at CA ever tried the blitz themselves.

I dare say this blitzing would not occur to most of us because we expect the game to play long, requiring building up cities, accumulating a bank account, and generally administrating the faction, slow-building campaign armies while trying to hold off aggressors. But you've turned the tables on that whole notion.

I noticed in your English/Norman thread many times you were thousands of florins in the red. That's basically counterintuitive to how most of us would think about managing our campaign. But you basically made money as you conquered, and your breathing spells were brief, and you used the Crusade to recruit good units at Crusade discount prices.

I'm impressed. You've got a talent.

I hope you find your true calling. And thanks for sharing with us. I know I'll be coming back to these threads of yours many times.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well the blitz certainly was not my own invention. Many other players have noticed the ability to build your economy from the incredible amount of florins you get from sacking, and everyone has noticed the economic/military benefits of crusading. The trouble is, once you build your military up to a point, and a crusade ends, and you've sacked your target city, you go deeply into the red, really fast. So your choices are to stay in debt and keep your troops, or disband your troops, balance your budget, and watch your freshly-conquered empire collapse.

I originally got this style of play from Rome: Total War (Total Realism mod) playing as the Gauls.

As the Gauls, you have a massive empire right from the start, that is on the verge of collapse. You have several full stacks of fresh, superb troops. But your economy is a disaster, and you WILL go into debt unless you disband over half of your standing army.

The result of such disbanding is the loss of 2/3 of your empire. You will most likely lose your Celtic territory in Asia Minor, as well as Thrace. That leaves you with almost nothing with which to stand up against the Romans, who have superior troops and start out on your doorstep as a united faction.

I could not suffer to watch my empire die. Not when I have five thousand brave troops standing at the ready, and a history of being an ancient and proud people with a unique culture.

So I was introduced to the idea of playing deeply in debt. I would take my armies in Asia Minor and wait by the shore for a boat to take me to Greece. I would use my province in Greece as a ship builder and get my troops across the sea. Then, my three stacks of Gaulish troops would pillage their way across northern Greece and Dacia until they reached northern Italy, where the rest of my forces had rallied.

From there, I would burn and pillage my way south until the Romans had been destroyed, and use the pillaging florins I acquired to reinforce my army and attack Germania, and my main force would end up taking either Iberia or Greece. Eventually, the budget righted itself. The idea was to not let the debt get out of hand, because every time I pillaged a city, I would sell off the buildings and reduce my debt, while crippling my enemies for a second pass.

If I were to play as the Mongols, I would go on a world tour of pillaging (but not selling buildings) before settling down. Then I would completely dismantle my army except for two stacks, Settle in Italy, and slowly reclaim the map from the pathetic rebels.

The risks of this particular style of play would be greater IF all AI factions attacked you with everything they have simultaneously. Since they don't, you can repel the sole invader or two with basic militia garrisons, unless they have artillery. Which they almost never do. And armies with artillery are slow to move around the campaign map, and can be easily repelled if pressed by a single general and as many spearmen as you can muster. Just surround the settlement they captured and seige them to death, or repel their sally.

The other risks involved are losing your generals by not playing defensively. You can get overzealous and put yourself at risk. You also have to worry about losing your men at sea, because I never build navies. I try to end all of my turns with my armies back on the shore so this never happens. There's usually enough mercenary ships to take me where I need to go, even if my first boat gets destroyed.

I am sure CA anticipated this strategy, that is why they have the Pope getting mad at catholics for being belligerent. They simply overpowered my ability to bribe and placate him.

The basic philosophy here is: Troops on the field are either suicide units to weaken the enemy, like kamikazes, (which after they are dead cost nothing) or they are potential sackers and pillagers bringing the world under your rule and bringing taxes to your treasury. If people don't wish to be exterminated, they had better stay loyal from a single sacking.

Of course this is all brutal and dishonorable, and in real life it wouldn't work. Everyone in the world would squash you immediately. But in the game it works perfectly.

The thing you must avoid is losing more troops than your opponents. Generally speaking, after blitzing your nearby rebel settlements or your first conquest of a faction, you are among the mightiest empires in the world (early game). Therefore, if you go on the attack, and do it well, you can cripple your enemies, have all of your troops die gallantly, and come back with a fresh stack to finish the job, or you can destroy them on the first pass with good generalship.

I also make it a point of ignoring enemy armies. If I see an army, I move away from it, unless it is near a settlement I want. Then I kill it if I can, or move quickly past it and find another. Once I am sure my troops will not be surrounded, I attack the nearest settlement and take all the florins I can from it. I am the ultimate robber baron and viking raider. The fewer troops you lose, and the more you destroy and pillage, the mightier your empire becomes.

When you get powerful enough, you can return with two stacks of troops and annihilate any straggler stacks of enemy troops you didn't get on the first pass, or any especially hard settlements that were well-defended. (Like Constantinople sometimes is. While on crusade, a single crusader stack may not be able to take it without sustaining HEAVY casualties. So, I sometimes ignore it and take Nicaea instead, pillage it, and allow the garrison from Constantinople to be split apart to retake Nicaea. Then, I have two moderately defended settlements. Divide and conquer.

I attack the enemy where they are weakest. I hit their soft, bloated bellies and avoid their claws. I strike them fast and without mercy, leave them crippled or dead, and move on just as quickly. Then, when the hunt is over, I come back to collect their carcasses. They are too busy mending their wounds or rebuilding what I have destroyed, or fighting to reclaim their own territory that they cannot spare the troops to defeat even the most mediocre defenses in my territory.

The philosophy is: Every stronghold can be taken. None are invulnerable. While some waste resources defending what they have, they miss the oppurtunity to claim themselves a larger piece of the pie. The best defense is a good offense and all that.

Against a human or humans, this cannot work. But the AI is divided and uncoordinated. The AI has no soul, no intelligence, no conscience, no consciousness. They cannot work together as human beings might to overcome regional or cultural differences and repel a racist, genocidal maniac.
See World War II for an example of this. Making yourself an enemy of the whole world accomplishes nothing but your own destruction.

However, in this game, it accomplishes everything; it destroys the world and remakes it in your image.

I'm on a roll here, and I could delve into my thoughts on matters beyond this game, and yammer on about philosophy, but I'll end it here so this post will actually stay on topic.

[phonicsmonkey]

hey pizzaguy, did you ever try RTW: Barbarian Invasion as the Western Roman Empire?

I only ask because their starting position is similar to the one you describe for the Gauls in RTR - large crumbling empire, economically unviable etc.

Conventional wisdom had it that the only way to win as the WRE was to disband armies and allow most of the empire to rebel, then slowly rebuild and retake it one step at a time.

wonder whether the insane blitzomaticTM strategy could have done a better job...

[Askthepizzaguy]

hey pizzaguy, did you ever try RTW: Barbarian Invasion as the Western Roman Empire?

I only ask because their starting position is similar to the one you describe for the Gauls in RTR - large crumbling empire, economically unviable etc.

Conventional wisdom had it that the only way to win as the WRE was to disband armies and allow most of the empire to rebel, then slowly rebuild and retake it one step at a time.

wonder whether the insane blitzomaticTM strategy could have done a better job...

Funny you should mention that. Yes, I played that. Exactly once.

I played as the Western Romans, and my empire was about to crumble.

"I DONT THINK SO" I said.

I forget exactly what I did, but all the regions I KNEW would rebel, I pulled my entire army out of and sold off the buildings. Then I waited for the rebellion to take place, and I layed seige to the city, with backup from my less rebellious cities.

It took me about 5 turns to solidify my empire again. I lost maybe four cities. I burned to the ground all the traitorous settlements and rebuilt them.

After that, I realized the game wasn't a challenge. I was already the largest empire in the world allied to the next largest empire in the world.

The Romans were fools to let their empire collapse.

[phonicsmonkey]

don't be too hard on them

I'd imagine you'd lose interest too if you'd blitzed your way to ruler of the known world in 50 turns, then had to administer it for several monotonous centuries

[Askthepizzaguy]

don't be too hard on them

I'd imagine you'd lose interest too if you'd blitzed your way to ruler of the known world in 50 turns, then had to administer it for several monotonous centuries

Reminds me of our idiot CEOs and children of the rich and famous here in America.

The inheritors of our culture. Those who contributed nothing to it and don't know how to maintain it. The squanderors of fortune, the playboy millionaires who become drug addicts, the people who waste what they have.

They will be the downfall of our society.

Forgive me, but you can't be too hard on them. They have it too easy, and the reason why the fail is because they have never been challenged.
I challenge them. If more people did the same, maybe they wouldn't ruin themselves. Maybe they could use what they have to make the world a better place. But I digress. I'm going to leave this thread alone for a while so that people can view the pretty pictures before they break again.

[Csargo]

Very nice. I'm not a blitzer, but you did a fantastic job. Painting the world red is always fun.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Well the blitz certainly was not my own invention. Many other players have noticed the ability to build your economy from the incredible amount of florins you get from sacking,

True, as I have. But you've taken the Crusade feature coupled with a blitz style of campaigning and turned it into something systematic. This is what I don't think CA anticipated. And it really is a quite clever way to play the game.

The trouble is, once you build your military up to a point, and a crusade ends, and you've sacked your target city, you go deeply into the red, really fast. So your choices are to stay in debt and keep your troops, or disband your troops, balance your budget, and watch your freshly-conquered empire collapse.

Yes, that can be a consequnce of Crusade's end. And I do think it's a waste to let a recently recruited and blooded army go to waste. You are going to eventually need all those troops anyway. So it's logical to simply put them to work immediately. As you point out about your experience with Gaul in the Total Realism mod. A lesson of real life can be seen in this - you use the gifts that you are given. Large army, bad economy - so move forward with what you have.

The risks of this particular style of play would be greater IF all AI factions attacked you with everything they have simultaneously. . . . the AI is divided and uncoordinated. The AI has no soul, no intelligence, no conscience, no consciousness. They cannot work together as human beings might

True, and perhaps one of these days they'll be able to improve on the AI and make it more relationship savvy.

I attack the enemy where they are weakest. I hit their soft, bloated bellies and avoid their claws. I strike them fast and without mercy, leave them crippled or dead, and move on just as quickly. Then, when the hunt is over, I come back to collect their carcasses. They are too busy mending their wounds or rebuilding what I have destroyed, or fighting to reclaim their own territory that they cannot spare the troops to defeat even the most mediocre defenses in my territory.

Yes, this is a classic military philosophy. And one can see it illustrated in your screenshots. MacArthur did as you described in his New Guinea campaign. He bypassed Rabaul, the Japanese stronghold, taking smaller towns and strategic points of communications eventually cutting off this main base and making it militarily irrelevant. He took all of New Guinea and the Phillippines suffering less casualties than what the US Army suffered in the Battle of the Bulge. Here's a little philosophy . . .

All war is about mistrust. It's relational. We don't trust our neighbor. We don't feel safe and are moved by desperation or earnest. We think someone is holding out on us, or not giving us our due. We feel threatened or shamed, devalued to the point that we fear for our very existance or viability. We fear being victimized or violated. Or, we ARE violated and want to stop it and re-establish healthy boundaries. We are betrayed by someone or aggrieved. We want to protect our families, our neighbors, our community and our property from harm. All these potential reasons for war are about relationships. Truly, trust has to be earned. Good faith has to be expressed mutually. Otherwise we live uncomfortably close to someone we're not sure of. That's real life, or at least, how I understand it. And to a large degree, even M2TW illustrates that.

To me, in your observation about the wealthy, (farther down the thread), the issue is really about gratitude. People who've had everything given to them, who have never sweated for anything, especially their own community, don't know gratitude in their lives. They don't know that their own life is a gift. It takes a sense of gratitude to fight for your country and your national community, or even your neighbor. But that notion is horribly old-fashioned these days. We've lost our sense of common destiny and community. Many of our fellow countryman don't feel connected to the national community in any real way. Instead, they feel alienated or even victimized by it. They feel their ideals and expectations have been dashed. And sadly I'm powerless to convince them otherwise. And then there are those who have so many personal troubles, that the national community doesn't even show up as a blip on their radar screen. I guess I'm off topic and probably rankling someone.

Thanks again for sharing a little bit of your world with us, PG. And best wishes,

[ForgotMyOldNick]

Awesome stuff PizzaGuy. Love looking at the screenies and the print screen posts were very funny !

After managing my first successful crusade last night..( hey I don't have enough time to play at the moment and only installed game a few weeks ago ) with the French faction ( Talk about florin saturation! Sooo easy compared to Sicily faction) ; I am wondering about this Crusade exploit thingy you mentioned on the first page?

I mean for when I play the Sicilians again it might be worth a try heh...

Anyway, thanks for the most detailed thread I have ever seen and humour sprinkled throughout.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Awesome stuff PizzaGuy. Love looking at the screenies and the print screen posts were very funny !

After managing my first successful crusade last night..( hey I don't have enough time to play at the moment and only installed game a few weeks ago ) with the French faction ( Talk about florin saturation! Sooo easy compared to Sicily faction) ; I am wondering about this Crusade exploit thingy you mentioned on the first page?

I mean for when I play the Sicilians again it might be worth a try heh...

Anyway, thanks for the most detailed thread I have ever seen and humour sprinkled throughout.

Crusade exploit may refer to any number of things.

In the first example, exploiting the fact that crusading armies cost nothing. Making your entire current standing army join a crusade and then *poof* building an entirely new army at home for defense and conquest would seem to be exploitative.

In the second example, exploiting the fact that in some versions of the game (read: most versions of the game) you can leave/join a crusade every turn for ten turns and move in ANY direction (or none) without loss to desertion.

In the third example, some versions of the game (read: most versions) allow you to leave/join/leave/join the crusade in order to gain Chivalry to maximum levels. Every one of my generals in my France game was "the Saint" in terms of character stats, if not in practice or in name, except my faction leader who I purposely built up to have 10 dread.

So crusades in most versions of the game are cheap ways to blitz and gain stats and have free standing armies.

However, because I warned everyone up front that I was going to use every legal loophole at my disposal to win, this qualifies as fair play. The only thing I don't agree with is using a modified game or codes to bend the rules.

I play with the rules 'as is'. It is not my fault and I am not to judge the fact that often times the rules aren't fair. I will viciously defend any attempt to label my blitz runs as cheating, because they aren't, by definition. If you play Scrabble, anything in the official dictionary is fair game, even if the words are NEVER used in everyday English language. It's not cheating, it's following the rules all the way to the breaking point.

However, for the sake of fun, 'house rules' eliminating blatant exploits are allowed and encouraged. It is also recommended that you delineate your 'house rules' when you post a thread so that people won't ask you what rules you are playing by. Since most people are either unwilling to use, or unaware of, legal loopholes in the game, I make it a point of telling people that they do exist and I am using them, even though I shouldn't have to.

I am gratified that you enjoyed my attempts at humor. These posts are meant to be informative and fun.

[ForgotMyOldNick]

Ok thanks. I don't think my particular version allows for it though.. My armies started fading before 10 turns. I am going to try out the chivalry factor and see.


Thanks again

[Askthepizzaguy]

Did the leading general leave the crusade and join it every turn?

Do you know which version you have?

[ForgotMyOldNick]

Uhm, I haven't tried it out yet...hehe I wasn't aware you could have a General leave and join multiple times. I just clicked the cross and legged it the first time heh.

Last night with the French I used a strong navy and put a spy on board too to save the hassle of mucking around with the space bar for faster movement.

Next time I will quicksave and see what happens :)

I have the english MTWII with straight patch to 1.02. I am in Australia.