Sengoku Jidai, Japanese interactive History

[Wishazu]

Is this game dead?

[Warluster]

Yes, this thread was posted in the Watchtower:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=122273

Kagemusha has retired from .Org, so this IH is now dead. I can confidently say this was the longest running IH, and defintly one of the best.

[Wishazu]

Yes, this thread was posted in the Watchtower:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=122273

Kagemusha has retired from .Org, so this IH is now dead. I can confidently say this was the longest running IH, and defintly one of the best.

Thanks Warluster, I`ve been away for a few months so totally missed that.

I did enjoy this for the brief time I was able to take part. Me and my allies were planning an absolutely stunning sneak attack on Stephen Asen`s Miyoshi lands. :)

[Prince Cobra]

Thanks Warluster, I`ve been away for a few months so totally missed that.

I did enjoy this for the brief time I was able to take part. Me and my allies were planning an absolutely stunning sneak attack on Stephen Asen`s Miyoshi lands. :)

How sad! :grins: I am afraid this attack would not have been... 'absolutely stunning' . I have been preparing so looong for this moment. Btw, I expected something like an invasion of 20 000 men on Awa since in the autumn my spies reported you have not mobilised your army, yet.

Anyway, I am really sorry for the IH.

[Pranas]

Damn, I sooo love Japan History, and thats a great shame I couldn't make it here in time...to enjoy this IH, as it looks really stunning. <3

[Wishazu]

How sad! :grins: I am afraid this attack would not have been... 'absolutely stunning' . I have been preparing so looong for this moment. Btw, I expected something like an invasion of 20 000 men on Awa since in the autumn my spies reported you have not mobilised your army, yet.

Anyway, I am really sorry for the IH.

It would have been a great battle, and alot more than just the army I was recruiting would have been launched against you. Ah well, it will never be now

[Prince Cobra]

It would have been a great battle, and alot more than just the army I was recruiting would have been launched against you. Ah well, it will never be now

Indeed. Anyway, it's over now. RL comes first.

Don't worry, be happy!

[AggonyDuck]

Aaah, but the real target was Kawachi and Awaji. We were quite aware that the war would be settled in Kansai, not in Shikoku.

[Prince Cobra]

Aaah, but the real target was Kawachi and Awaji. We were quite aware that the war would be settled in Kansai, not in Shikoku.

Awaji would have been yours. I planned to destroy the castle there anyway. Kwachi and Settsu is a different issue. I had significant garrisons there, esp. once the new harvest arrives.

I knew there will be an attack either on Shikoku or in the mainland, so I decided to take some measures. The mistake of Lord Asakura not to leave garrisons in his lands was never to be repeated. However, Count Arach was really excellent warrrior and it was only the lack of coordiantion between me and him in the beginning that allowed you to destroy him. But in my opinion, Aggony, you were one of the best players.

[AggonyDuck]

Me and Asai would had eventually been overpowered though. But yeah, it was a good duel. I never managed to predict your movements.

[King Kurt]

Kage - farewell old friend - I have enjoyed your online contributions, especially this wonderful IH. As the Amako it has been a rollercoaster, first all success, then a stab in the back which had me reeling, then a comeback from a difficult position. When the IH finished we had secured our borders, untited the 2 houses of the Amako and Mori and were preparing for expansion anew.

As an IH it rated up there with the greats and there was no finer for capturing the atmosphere of the period - great game, good players - we shall miss it.

[Kagemusha]

Im sorry for letting each and everyone down by ending this game, but like one wise old man once said what was the more important thing. the journey to the destination or the destination itself?

[AggonyDuck]

Definitively the journey. I don't think anyone expected this to finish as simply it would had taken atleast fifteen more years in game time, which would have taken years to finish in real time. Anyway thank you for the experience.

[Revolting Friendship]

We had our sights set on Sanuki, Awa and Awaji, actually.

The Ôtomo and the Shimazu were bringing in 18.500 men in the first wave on 185 ships, our grand fleet. 8500 men were to secure Awaji as a base of operations for the upcoming attack on the mainland, 10.000 men were to land in Sanuki and secure it. At the same time 12.000 men and 4 cannons from the Chosokabe were to attack Awa. The second wave of troops from Ôtomo and Shimazu would have tallied somewhere above 10.000 men, all concentrated on securing Shikoku, setting the total strenght of our armies at least 40.000 in that campaign. Our fleet was set to become roughly 250 ships, which it would've been likely to reach by the years end.

Our overall strategy was as such:
First stage
-Invade Miyoshi island possessions
-Move in additional troops against Sanuki and Awa from Awaji and Kyûshû, second month of operations
-Lock these provinces down, siege and sieze them
-Gain complete naval superiority for protection and blockade purposes (lock out naval reinforcements and/or attacks)
-Pacify or conquer the Kono clan

First stage goals
-Divert Miyoshi attention and ease the pressure for our mainland allies
-Cripple the Miyoshi supply-base and manpower
-Boost our own strenght, thereby;
-Potentially secure further support from minor clans or others

Second stage
-Create a sea-wall (even stronger fleet) to shield our island possessions against potential Amako/Môri-coalition attacks
-Stage a naval invasion of mainland Miyoshi, starting in Izumi (potentially)
-Secure support or at least free passage from Akamatsu and Hatano-clans
-Stage raids on remaining Miyoshi provinces from above-mentioned clans territories
-Send reinforcements therethrough to our mainland allies
-Confront main Miyoshi forces by a 2 or 3-way pronged operation, including Ôtomo, Shimazu, Chosokabe, Asai, Oda, Tokugawa, Iga and Hatakeyama forces, and anyone else willing to assist

Second stage goals
-Sieze and redistribute Miyoshi lands
-Capture the capital
-Severely cripple or destroy the Miyoshi-clan
-Depose the Shogun
-Reinstate the Emperor as de-facto ruler
-Secure our position for further goals

My assessment of the situation:

Miyoshi would not have had enough troops currently stationed on Shikoku to throw back the initial invasion
Miyoshi would not have had enough ships to threaten or hold back our armada
Miyoshi would've been unable to raise additional troops on Shikoku once all provinces were under siege
Miyoshi would've been unable to send reinforcements from the mainland

No significant or organised cooperation would take place between Miyoshi and the Amako/Môri coalition
Support of enemy faction by Ikko-Ikki or other sympathizers (such as Suzuki) would be neglectable
No immidiate or significant threat of invasion from afore-mentioned coalition was likely to materialize within the nearest couple of months
Our own ability to swell our fleet and to destroy our enemies fleets would remove all threats of attacks against either Kyûshû or Shikoku

Miyoshi once liberated of Shikoku would lose at least 1/3rd of their power, shifting the balance significantly
Miyoshi would have around 10.000 men with which to initially defend Shikoku
Miyoshi would initially have around 60 ships in total to rival us with
Miyoshi would have at least 40.000 men tied up in eastward campaigns, thus posing no threat
Miyoshi would have at least 10.000 men tied up in mainland garrisons, thus posing no threat

I was pretty confident that the first stage of our plans would see success, with only moderate potential of mishaps, unpredicted resistance or delays. The second stage I thought doable, but probably very costly and time-consuming. My biggest concern was how long our mainland allies would be able to hold out unsupported, and wether they would still be a strenght to count on by the time of the second stage.

Man, it would have been so much fun just to know how wrong I was about all this ;)

[Prince Cobra]

The only thing I really feel sorry for is that we did not have about 4-8 turns more to see how the game will develop. It ended at the most intesteresting moment and... Well, additional reason to curse the Real Life factor... :p

Good game, Kage...

[Revolting Friendship]

I've been reading through some of the chapters and in-between trash-talking, indeed this has been quite a journey, and a wonderful past-time. The excitement generated by this IH greatly rivalled many of my favourite computer-games, and I became quite the addict. ;)
While I'm sad it's over, I'm glad I was a part of it, and I will remember this adventure with fondness.


Prince Cobra:
Would you satisfy my curiousity and tell me how many men you had on Shikoku and how many ships you had to fight us with? And perhaps your plans and ability to ward of our planned invasion?
Then at least I can imagine what would've happened the next turn ;D

Kage:
It would be so awesome if you would write some kind of epilogue to this IH now that it's over. If you ever find the time and will to do it.
Either way, thank you for all the great fun :)

[Prince Cobra]

7 000 in total (for the winter; they were about 12 000 in the summer, 8 000 in autumn). Have in mind I've spend about 17 000 koku for the upkeep of the Asakura men + I was expecting an increase of the Kwatchi income with 5 000 + promised increase of the income of Settsu + some income from Ise. As my allies can confirm, I've been sensing a threat for my Shikoku lands so I was hesitating whether to double or triple the garrison there. And I've had 45 ships (say some of them filled with explosives)which had direct orders to sacrifice themselves but to preserve the Shikoku/Kinai coast. Note this does not include the numbers I could have received from my allies. There was 1 ship for Matsunaga Hisahide, who had orders to destroy the castle and to save himself on the ship. The garrison on Awaji was very very small.

At least this was the orginal plan.

P.S. Have in mind I receive info about any mobilisation which is happening near my borders so in case the Chosokabe had mobilised his men during the winter, I would get that info + your forces would be separated which can give me some advantage in equal numbers...

You also miss the fact we have 5 shipbuilders + the Kono ships therefore we have the potential to outproduce you...

[Revolting Friendship]

Sweet. I was very determined not to underestimate you and it seems like I didn't. I was operating under the hope that provinces under siege would be unable to train troops and build ships, just as they don't produce income for the actual owner, therefore I wanted to lock down all your Shikoku provinces at once, including Awaji. The Kono would've been visited already the next turn, since I was pretty sure you would've used them as a base to raise resistance on Shikoku, but I prioritised your own provinces. I was also prudent to instruct Chosokabe to leave 5000 men as garrison in Tosa, so the province was well protected against potential Kono interference.

The attack was planned already for spring 1564, summer would have bolstered both the Sanuki and Awa armies with upwards 5000 men each, leaving near 10.000 additional men to bear down on the Kono. It would have depended on the needs for reinforcements.

As for the naval theatre, I was planning to let at least 100 ships go to patrol and search & destroy duty for summer, and spare ships was already set to patrol in spring. Their engagement orders were to form crane formations and skirmish with ships loaded with Teppô troops. I gambled that this strategy would be sufficient to encircle and quickly destroy smaller fleets making desperate attacks, and I was suspecting such measures to resist, with fire-ships and and the like.

Other than that, your remaining 3 (5 with Ise and Shima) provinces would not have been able to properly put up a naval-race against us with our 9 provinces (10 with Chosokabe). And then ofcourse the rest of Shikoku would've been added to our production-capacity, once secured. I was more concerned with the possibility for you to develop cooperation with Amako/Môri, which could have contested our grip on the sea, but I was hoping they would mind their own business and perhaps try their luck eastward for at least a while. ;)

[Prince Cobra]

I gather the income during the winter and planned new mobilisations + my calculations show that without additional mobilisation during the winter Chosokabe are unable to field 12 000 men on the field... I also have the firendship of Mori, Amako and others (I hinted that in the previous post; these are the 4 other shipwrights; ) I also think that my Navy would have been basically extinct after the spring (during defending the coasts against your landing forces; sine Awaji is basically undefendable, I think Atagi would have concentrated on the Awa coasts) but I still think I would be able to repel an attack of your weakened forces on Awa during the spring.

[Kagemusha]

I have been pondering a bit if we should revive this thing if there is interest, or maybe i could do another one as some things have been spoiled already and i might change some things in the rules also.Would there be any interest for such things? I could maybe push the starting date bit further or maybe earlier, but please give me your opinions and we can ofcourse continue where we were.

[Beskar]

If you do, you will need to think of which section to actually host it in. Here or the gameroom.

[Vladimir]

At 52 pages, it is probably best to begin again. The timing is perfect and interest is high, but I'm sure few people want to go back through the entire thread.

[Monk]

It was truly a shame that this game fizzled, especially so soon after I had joined. But what I did experience was very fun, like said above the journey was absolutely the best part of the game.

I believe that even unfinished it was still a lot of fun, i regret that I didn't join sooner as the in-between turn politics turned out to be a ton of fun. Reviving it, however, would be a tough prospect. The political deals made in ages past feel stale now, and i know myself I dont have half of my underhanded dealings at my fingertips (having done away with the PMs).

Though, the thought of a reboot is intriguing. With S2TW on the horizon I know a lot of interest in that period has surged on the .Org. If you're thinking of a full restart Kage, I'd love to get in on the ground floor.

[King Kurt]

As a player since the begining, I think it would be good to start again - I have lost track of many of the alliances and at least one keen player - Warman - would not be able to play due to his wrist problem. The IH was so good due to Kage's handling of the monster he had created and the large number of possibilities that existed due to the historic situation. With most players having 3 or 4 neighbours the scene was well set for alliances and conflict. Throw in the struggle to unite the country and you had the perfect mix.

The other good reason for starting again is that I think people are more aware of the background after the first IH - I thought we were all behaving like true leaders of our clans and there was a growing sense of honour and the true japanesse way of doing things.

So I say - let's start again - I am sure many of the players would like to give it another go - perhaps we could move away from the gunpowder era. Kage - you are the secret behind this working so well - I hope our enthusiasm encourages you to pick up the reins.

[Vladimir]

Did foreigners play a part? It would be fun to play the Portuguese or Dutch.

[Kagemusha]

Did foreigners play a part? It would be fun to play the Portuguese or Dutch.

I am happy to see that this is gathering interest. To your question. The Portuguese were only a trading factor controlled by me. In many cases over extending is the thing that kills IH´s, so when at certain point Otomo tried to get foreign powers involved in the events.I sabotaged that attempt very quickly. I think the reason this one was so successfull all the way to the time when real life made it impossible for me to continue hosting was the limited scope of it.

Edit: Beskar, if this will be hosted at somewhere. it will be the chapter house as gameroom has large activity already.

If many players agree we could surge down deeper to the history and push back the starting date to lets say 1525- 1545. To even more fragmented Nippon with some large clans that had already ceaced to exist during 1560? Would it be good to make a separate poll in order to create a concensus for the next step?

[seireikhaan]

I agree on a restart. I'm not picky on the date- I don't really know quite enough to make a judgment either way, but if I had to pick, I thought the date that we originally started at seemed to work well.

[Revolting Friendship]

I also think a restart would be preferable, for obvious reasons. ;) It would also give new players a better chance to grow into the game, and Kage an oppertunity to update the rules and play-system according to previous experiences.
And if the rest of you would fancy, we could set the start to 1550, since I have a pretty far progressed game-map for that date, including names and ages for Daimyô, their families and prominent vassals of most clans present. If so we could use that map as a basis.

Either way I'm in, and will be happy to draw the maps for the game too, as always. :)

Great to see you back in business Kage :D

[Beskar]

Edit: Beskar, if this will be hosted at somewhere. it will be the chapter house as gameroom has large activity already.

You should ask GH or Sigurd to do a shadow in the gameroom, so you get more interest.

[Kagemusha]

You should ask GH or Sigurd to do a shadow in the gameroom, so you get more interest.

Not a bad idea.We just first have to wait for our veteran Daimyos to emerge from their strongholds in order to see what would be the right direction to take.There is no rush.