Unrestricted Camera =

[Baybers]

My first post here so sorry it has to be a complaint but this is something that has bothered me since I started MTW2 multiplayer.

As I understand it restricted camera is the default setting in the game the same as limited ammo, morale etc. Why is it then that hosts (many clans included) continually turn off this default? Is this game too difficult for them otherwise?

In the days of multi STW & MTW a host doing this would have been accused of being a beginner, or worse, a Noob!

Why then not turn off the other defaults and enjoy the full arcade experience just like AoE?

[Yun Dog]

I can only guess they turn it off so they can appraise their opponents forces and also keep an eye on how their partners are fairing at the other end of the battlefield. I suppose they would percieve this as an advantage given they are probably communicating more and have their practiced tactics as compared to their opponents who will probably be unknown to each other and are likely not to communicate much or have set plays.

My advice would be to get a mate and work out some team plays and then use the unrestricted camera against them

or not play against teams that use that setup?

Maybe a clannie can shed more light on this?

but it could be related to coaching.. that is one experienced clan member supervising the other clan members moves and making recommendations

[RTKBarrett]

Yun practically gives the answer there... its the "norm" in clan tournaments/competitive matches these days to have unrestricted camera and its been like that since VI i believe. We dnt strive for the realism alot of the sp community do but believe the mechanics of the game such as munitions and especially morale are vital!

Teamwork doesn't just involve working in sync with ure partner, i also believe it should mean looking out for him... and u cant see something that he hasn't yet if the cams restricted

As to coaching thats another possibility, usually in 3v3s the inexperienced player may be put in the centre so he can get a feel of controlling the line and front... the flanking players can look after him too

I recommend hosting your own game baybers with the settings you like/want, i very much doubt a clannie would complain about the cam settings... florins though is another thing xD

[Stig]

I somehow prefer restricted camera, simply because it doesn't give you the change to see my weakness (and it's big, it's me) untill we are actually fighting.

florins though is another thing xD

The lower the better imo
Unluckely enough some don't agree on that. 5000 florins, max 3 cav is far more fun imo.

[Puzz3D]

Restricted camera was the norm in VI.

[RTKBarrett]

Restricted camera was the norm in VI.

Ive been informed otherwise from cwc

[Puzz3D]

Ive been informed otherwise from cwc

All seven CWC MTW/VI tournaments up until the release of RTW used restricted camera. The restricted camera was also used in the CWC MTW/VI Valor One tournament played earlier this year.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

In the days of multi STW & MTW a host doing this would have been accused of being a beginner, or worse, a Noob!

If you did what you suggest you would be called a noob and few if any vets woud join such a game. Where did you get this idea from?

Why then not turn off the other defaults and enjoy the full arcade experience just like AoE?

That is the last thing we want.

[peacedog]

Personally i dont have a problem with unresticted cam, but a restricted cam does give more depth to the gameplay. If you want to know whats happening on the dancefloor you will have to send out recon units (usually light horse) rather than have a godlike view of the battlefield.
Regarding cash, anything from 5k to 15k is ok by me:-)

[t1master]

it gave more depth in the older mtw, but in m2, it's sorta a non issue, the armies close so fast that un-restrikted camera doesn't give you that much of a leg up... also, not being able to identify units from a higher zoom, like in mtw sorta evens it out.

[Baybers]

If you did what you suggest you would be called a noob and few if any vets woud join such a game. Where did you get this idea from?

Sorry Gawain I did'nt understand this comment. My point is the game is poorer with the camera unrestricted as it is totally unrealistic and dumbs down the whole experience.
If a player is able to 'fly' over enemy lines then it negates deployment options, makes reconnaissence unnecessary and does not bring out the best in players. I believe it reduces the standard of play for everyone. For me, it should be the clans and tourney players who maintain the standard by always using the game defaults and others will follow.
As for florins, I now find it difficult to put a competitive army of Turks in the field at 10k. Pity, I love those green guys.

[peacedog]

Guess you are talking about the flatmap.
Even in fog you know ruffly where they are.
The best TW experience comes from fighting in unknown territory, with bad weather, against the odds, fighting an uphillbattle, and winning!

[Baybers]

The best TW experience comes from fighting in unknown territory, with bad weather, against the odds, fighting an uphillbattle, and winning!

Couldn't agree more! I avoid flat maps like the plague. If you want to play on a perfectly flat green surface, take up snooker or eight ball.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Sorry Gawain I did'nt understand this comment. My point is the game is poorer with the camera unrestricted as it is totally unrealistic and dumbs down the whole experience.

Well then I totally agree with you.

The problem is there is no such thing in reality in MTW2 as restricted camera. You want to do recon just put you cursor over where you want to see and press the mouse wheel. You zoom right in.

[Nikodil]

Restricted camera is a somewhat artificial way of achieving realism anyway. Better mechanisms are line-of-sight, spotting and fog-of-war. When modelling these aspects in the game mechanics camera restrictions are uneccesary.

[Stig]

Restricted camera is a somewhat artificial way of achieving realism anyway. Better mechanisms are line-of-sight, spotting and fog-of-war. When modelling these aspects in the game mechanics camera restrictions are uneccesary.

Erhmmm no. Restricted camera is far more realistic than fog of war.
I mean, have you ever seen a fog of war in reallife?

[Nikodil]

Heh, no, IRL i stay as far away from war as possible ;)

[CeltiberoMordred]

Unrestricted camera came with RTW as well as another thousand rules and a new and younger TW MP community.

In in STW/MI, MTW and VI battles were fought with restricted camera all the time. Even in MTW there was a "cheat" to have unrestricted camera (even if the host set it to "restricted") typing a paramether in the shortcut. That cheat was fixed with VI.

Regards.

[TosaInu]

Is general camera used in MP? That new one came with RTW, that's what you mean CeltiberoMordred?

MTW had a top down view it all at once mode. I recall one player could have that enabled regardless of what the host did.

The mouseover bothers me, it allows to identify units you can't clearly see. Lately I saw that you could even see units that way that shouldn't be visible at all (unit was behind a wooded hill).

[CeltiberoMordred]

Is general camera used in MP? That new one came with RTW, that's what you mean CeltiberoMordred?

My mistake. I wanted to say unrestricted. It's already edited in my previous post.

Anyways, in RTW and M2TW you needn't unrestricted camera to see your foes. You can take a close look at enemy units just clicking the wheel of the mouse on them.

[pike master]

when you host your own games use restricted camera. i havent yet seen a guest player complain to host on a non tournament game about restricted/ unrestricted camera.

on the flip side unlimited missiles or morale turned off , if you do not warn the guest first, can be construed as cheating since the guest may build his army based on the assumption that they are turned on. noone likes someone who does this, it is a good way to ruin your reputation as a respectable player in my opinion.

[TosaInu]

Thank you CeltiberoMordred. Do you mean that the camera zooms in on the enemy unit or the mouseover info?

Anyone tried general pov camera in MP?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Thank you CeltiberoMordred. Do you mean that the camera zooms in on the enemy unit or the mouseover info?

Where ever you put your cursor and press on the mouse wheel it will zoom in and show you that area. It wont tell you what the troops are but you can see them and identify them by their weapons and the like.

[CeltiberoMordred]

Thank you CeltiberoMordred. Do you mean that the camera zooms in on the enemy unit or the mouseover info?

Anyone tried general pov camera in MP?

Gawain answered perfectly your previous question :). Not the mouseover info but zoom in and see how they look like.

I don't know if anyone use general's camera in multiplayer, but I don't think so. Even in SP it's only used by a minority, afaik. It would be a good challenge to play MP battles in this way, though.

[Chaos Cornelius lucius]

I started playing MP in VI and I remember the norm was to have restricted camera. I have just continued to keep it that way in any games I host. It just does'nt sem right to be able to fly all over the map, although the mouseover/zoom thing does make restricted a bit pointless I admit.
I have had a couple of people complain about restricted camera when the game starts tho

[TosaInu]

Where ever you put your cursor and press on the mouse wheel it will zoom in and show you that area. It wont tell you what the troops are but you can see them and identify them by their weapons and the like.

Thanks Gawain of Orkeny and CeltiberoMordred,

This isn't todays encouraging thought.

I don't know if anyone use general's camera in multiplayer, but I don't think so. Even in SP it's only used by a minority, afaik. It would be a good challenge to play MP battles in this way, though.

I tried it a few times in SP, it's a challenge indeed. It also revived the dream of a 64vs64 1 unit each.

[t1master]

the general's pov might make some interesting battles....

i didn't know you could spot zoom like that gawain. is that only for the rts camera? or does it work for the classic tw view as well?

[Orda Khan]

I'd go another step and ditch the radar map as well. The camera should be restricted and surprises (ambush) should be a realistic possibility

.....Orda

[t1master]

i play both games(mtw) with the radar off, and limited ui in m2. more fun imo, i really think there might be something to the general's view. at least the imbalance and mechanical flaws would be offset by not knowing what is going on outside of the line of sight.

[ELITEofBLIZZARD]

GAH o_O

I didnt play MTW2 online for about 2 months now... but isnt it still possible to turn off restricted cameras in the game settings menu after pressing ESC in a battle? Or was this "cheat" (i'd rather call it ca's foolishness) only know by some few guys.

And yes, restricted cameras was the standard back in VI and still is today. Unrestricted camera just is too easy, only reasonable if you want to teach some cubs.

PS: Nice alternative baz... cubs in the center... have to try that :D