New factions?

[[EB]Demulon]

Why was Saba even included in the mod? I mean, I can understand the need to represent unique cultures, but to include a faction from modern day Yemen and Ethiopia seems to deviate from the whole barbarians of Europe theme. Don't get me wrong, I like their units in EB1, but to have a faction on the southernmost tip of the Arabian peninsula, where no other faction could pose a threat, makes little sense.
I think their affect on the Successors can be simply simulated through a border-trade building...unless it is known for fact that they conquered large parts of Europe/Asia.
If someone could give a good reason why they are in the game, then I will stop asking why

[Admetos]

EB is not intended to be barbarian mod, otherwise I'm sure we'd have just a map of Gaul and 20 Gallic factions. It portrays ALL factions accurately.

[[EB]Demulon]

I was saying that the mod, like its title suggests, should focus more on Europe and western Asia as opposed to the southern Middle East, which had little to do with the political and military development of ALL the other factions.
Sheba is in the middle of nowhere, and although they traded with Ptolemies and influenced Asiatic architecture, that does not warrant them getting their own faction. They are a waste of space, both settlement-wise as well as unnecessarily extending the map to the sparsely populated deserts of the south. I respect the hard work and research that went into representing them, but their inclusion is just no practical.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

EB stopped being about Europe and barbarians not too long after it was started. The name comes from the day when it was just a group of people begging CA to represent the barbarians of Europe with more historical accuracy and less unwashed horde feel. Once EB became an actual mod, it simply became a realism mod for the 3rd century BC.

Saba was added because the region was completely devoid of anything and sense it would be a unique faction. One of the things EB seeks to do is to teach, and having a Saba faction has caused many people to think about the history of pre-Islamic Arabia, and that in itself is a success.

In EB v7.4, Arabia was kind of wasted provinces that nobody bothered with; if you were really unlucky, Ptolemai conquered Arabia and became crazy rich.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Saba was added because the region was completely devoid of anything and sense it would be a unique faction. One of the things EB seeks to do is to teach, and having a Saba faction has caused many people to think about the history of pre-Islamic Arabia, and that in itself is a success.

In EB v7.4, Arabia was kind of wasted provinces that nobody bothered with; if you were really unlucky, Ptolemai conquered Arabia and became crazy rich.

Aye! If it were only for game balance Saba would still be a brilliant choice. They can not only stand but even defy the White, Yellow and Silver Deaths sometimes all at once.
.

[Nick.Altman]

Illyria. RTR had Illyria and it's the only thing I miss in EB.

[[EB]Demulon]

having a Saba faction has caused many people to think about the history of pre-Islamic Arabia, and that in itself is a success.

That's a very good point. Thanks for clarifying that

[edyzmedieval]

Illyria. RTR had Illyria and it's the only thing I miss in EB.

For EB1, the team had to make really though choices in selecting factions. They aimed for balance, gameplay and historical accuracy, so that is why Illyria has not been selected (not because of historical accuracy...).

[[EB]Demulon]

I think Illyria would be a nice faction to include, as it would provide a strong counter to Roman/Greek expansion into the Balkans... but were they united by 272??

[azzbaz]

I think Illyria would be a nice faction to include, as it would provide a strong counter to Roman/Greek expansion into the Balkans... but were they united by 272??

They were tribes with loose affiliations with each other. Their was at 272BC a tribe called the Ardiaei which along with the Dardani, was probably the most powerful. Their king at this time was Pleuratus. They peaked around 250BC when a king named Agron ruled. His kingdom included most of Illyria as well as bits of Epirus and Corcyra. Their capital was Scodra. They would probably be best represented as a faction

[Sir Edward]

Doing a quick search for Illyria History i came across this well put together and cited post.
Illyria Polical Organization

Like the poster above already said there are a couple of tribes in the 3rd Cent BC that would be as much a regional superpowers as say the Getai... trading, interacting with colonies of "cilivized nations", and hampering expansionist movement.

[Bellum]

I'm all for Illyrians if only to provide another competitor to Germans, who in my current campaign, went strait down, or to Epirus, who currently holds the area.

Rome AI needs all the help it can get, though. Pitting Epirus against another faction would perhaps allow them to take southern Italy faster.

EDIT: Well I can't predict the M2 AI, really.

[Son of Perun]

What units would the Illyrians have apart from Thureophoroi and Hippeis? I've read somewhere that their heavy infantry used very similar equipment as the Hoplites.

[Spartan Soldier]

You could also make more than one Campaign and give them some more factions.

[Admetos]

I don't think it's certain campaigns that have the limit on factions, it's the game as a whole.

[Foot]

I don't think it's certain campaigns that have the limit on factions, it's the game as a whole.

Both actually. You can only have maximum of 30 factions + 1 slave in a mod-folder's game files (you could of course have multiple mod folders. But you can also have a maximum of 21 playable factions (perhaps slightly more I haven't checked) before they stop appearing on the campaign menu screen.

Foot

[I Am Herenow]

So only one faction out of the 10 new ones will be playable?

[Foot]

So only one faction out of the 10 new ones will be playable?

Yeah, like we at EB won't think of a way round that one.

Foot

[Kepper]

You can have more of 21 campaign menu screen.
In MTW 2 you just can have 21 faction in costume battle or the game will crashe , but have saw a mod for Kingdoms it 24 factiom in costume battle.

[Dibran88]

How about Illiriya? all these rome mods in production disregard this faction, and put it under unplayable rebels. kind of rediculous.

[Foot]

Dibran, stop posting the same question in multiple threads. Its annoying.

Foot

[Bartix Elite Guard]

How about creating a sticky about which factions won't be in EB2? This would stop people asking if they are in or suggesting them to be in over and over again and make EB members explain why they are not in. Here's my attempt from team responses I have read. This is not official.

Kush\meroe\any black African faction - There are only 7 culture slots, cultures determine leader portraits ergo thy would have to have white portraits

Caledonians - not powerful enough

Cyrene - Not in. Shame.

Another Iberian faction - unlikely. There weren't many as powerful as the Lusitani.

Illyrians or Thracians - They were not united. 'Illyrians' or 'Thracians' is not specific enough.

Numidians - See above.

Bastarnoz - Not enough is known about them

Sparta - They are part of the Koinon Hellon.

'Roman\Egyptian\Selukid ect Rebels - There are many real factions to represent. They will be prioritized over rebels.

[Strategos Alexandros]

I'm fairly sure that EB members have said that Numidians will probably be in.

[Bartix Elite Guard]

I would be very surprised if 'The Numidians' were in. The term is not specific enough. See my comment.

[Admetos]

Originally Posted by Bartix Elite Guard
How about creating a sticky about which factions won't be in EB2? This would stop people asking if they are in or suggesting them to be in over and over again and make EB members explain why they are not in.

You obviously havent read the first Stele. You'll find factions that won't be included in there.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

First of all factions should be powerful, united, and expansionistic at the start date. Also, should be on the map (which can't be expanded). No shadow factions or emerging factions. From what has been admitted publically, this is basically what factions won't be in:

-Judaea : emerging and wouldn't expand
-Mauryan Empire : majority off the map
-Kush/Nubia/Meroe or Eithiopia : not powerful, on edge of map, culture problems
-Scandinavian tribe : little known, not powerful, on edge of map
-Slavic/baltic tribe : little known, not powerful
-Splitting up the Koin : if they were devided they would each be a rebel city
-Roman rebels : unplayable - could be used for a playable faction elsewhere

[Strategos Alexandros]

I would be very surprised if 'The Numidians' were in. The term is not specific enough. See my comment.

I meant by that "A numidian faction", such as Massyli for example.

[V.T. Marvin]

What about idea of rebel counterparts of your faction. IMHO it was very challenging in BI. Possibility of civil war gives you permanent threat regardless of your international successes. Why don't keep this challenge alive?

I hate this feeling, when my game loses his momentum. You know that feeling too I guess. It happens when you finish struggling in the beginning of the game, settle your economy and... you are doomed to boring conquering ;)

Imagine these AI active, tough and agressive rebellions could be programmed to ally with your enemies (maybe as protectorate) or to takeover your territory.

Emerging of rebellions could be connected with traits of your family members or antagonisms inside family (eg. spartans versus athenians in KH or hellens versus persians in Pontus).

So, don't spawn factions... God save me from my friends - I can protect myself from my enemies. ;)

I would like to support this idea. As long as the EBII map should be almost identical to EB1.0 one, I think the current distribution of factions is good enough. Having the feature of possible civil war is much more attractive game-play-wise than adding more factions. (In first Medieval TW it was a rather cool feature even in its rudimentary form there.)
It would also be much less demanding for modders, because you would need not to design new units and buildings. TW games are excellent at the beginning of a campaign, when the player really must think a lot about what he/she is doing. Occasional civil war would keep the thrill even in the mid- late-campaign when otherwise human player just dominates the world and the challenge drops rapidly.
Please, please, if there is the possibility, implement the rebel counterparts to playable factions rather than new ones.

[Foot]

There is no possibility. How would we decide which factions would get it (seeing as we only have 10 new factions and 20 original ones)? Furthermore the new factions are needed to flesh out areas of the map that are otherwise poorly represented by rebels (especially where these are places where factions ahistorically expand. Finally we want to focus on education and we can better show the history of our world through playable factions than non-playable factions.

Foot

Foot

[Sdragon]

Here's my shot at putting the possible new factions into perspective First we need to take into account that although EB2 will have more faction slots to play with the amount of unit slots remains the same, so any new faction will have to use units already in game with few unique ones. So they will have to use other cultures units, which makes sense since the same number of culture slots remain right?

Bosperous Kingdom: It has already been stated that this faction was one of the runner ups in EB but didn't quite make it. It starts with 2 provinces which makes it an attractive faction plus it's Greek so that it will use units that already exist. Plus we have their unique heavy archers with steppe units. This along with it's location on the map makes it an interesting choice.

Massalia: Another Greek faction that starts with 2 provinces and stated by EB members as another 'could have been' faction. A mix of Greek and Celtic units plus it's own unique hoplite makes this another almost guaranteed choice.

Kyrene + Pergamon + Syrakousai: Since Greek factions are already fleshed out and one of these cities have their own unit any Greek faction will be easy on the unit slots. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or more of these factions make an appearance since all three have been involved in wars and politics. Not to mention each of them has an interesting starting position for playability factor.

Ireland: I don't remember the name of the people that live here. EB has stated that they didn't actually exist until shortly after the game start date but you just have to look at the unit selection to see that the EB team take these guys seriously. 6, that's right, SIX regional units. Ranging from low end troops to uber elites, it's already a fully fledged faction, it just needs a slot. Would add a lot to the British region.

Galatia: These guys fight, it's what they do, not to mention there is a huge number of Galatian troops available which gives them a full unit roster. Plus Celts so far East fighting against phalanx troops would be pretty intense although the region is over crowded. Anyone else notice how Galatia appears in the EB Civ game? Could be a clue there. They would also help the whole rebellion leading to a crazy long distance Gaelic alliance.

Skythia: Two starting provinces and already have some unique units of their own. Plus given their location on the map these guys are the closest your ever going to having a faction in the Polish region. With a bit of luck they will help keep the Europeans in Europe.

A Belgae Tribe: 4 unique units and an excellent faction to sit in between the Germans and the Celts. But from a playability side of things not certain if they really bring enough to the table

Celtic Alps: Don't remember their name but they are strong thanks to the EB scripts A lot of unique troop types and a location that will help keep factions where they are meant to be.

Another Iberian or Germanic tribe: Don't know enough about these regions to comment but these area's have a bunch of regional units (including the Iberian tanks). Since these areas are lacking they would benefit from a faction.

Numidia: EB has stated that they weren't a united faction although they did say they would have wanted them in but there were other factions more worthy of an appearance. Perhaps with 10 new factions slots they will appear. The main problem being that there isn't a great deal of unit types so it will be interesting to see how much of a unit roster these guys would have.

Illiria + Thrace + Ethiopia: Unfortunately we know these guys wont appear despite Illiria having 3 units and Thrace having 5. They just weren't united enough. Ethiopia on the other hand lacks a culture slot although they do have a few units of their own.

Didn't expect it to be this long. Be interested to see what the rest of you think. Just some of the factions that I feel I know enough to write about. (Note: couldn't be bothered to proof read )