sick of europe

[Callahan9119]

how many more times must we revisit this god forsaken piece of land


asia please

[Csargo]

Europe is the main continent in history especially during this time period. I think they did this because CA wanted to add 3d Naval battles, since it's been demanded for a while now. That's my opinion anyways.

[Callahan9119]

i'm sure the arabs, turks, chinese, japanese, indians, koreans steppe people, huns, tatars, africans, persians, jews, egyptians and the hundreds of others would disagree that it was the "major" place

its just getting tired...at least to me

i'd like to see other things added or improved on other than naval battles

[Noir]

sick of those who are sick of europe

[Csargo]

Like I said during this time period Europe was where the major players were during the colonization of the New World. Sorry if my post wasn't clear or was misunderstood.

So would I, but more people would like to see naval battles. Majority=automatic win.

[Tratorix]

Not to mention that European culture is more familiar to people in North America and, of course Europe. Purely a marketing decision.

[Belgolas]

I wish it was somewhere else. Like China area would be awesome. Africa too. Or Mesopotamia ancient times.

[Gray Beard]

Chinese ships and weapons in the 18th and 19th century were substantially inferior to the European Imperial powers. That says nothing bad about the culture of other places. But, it is almost an inescapable truth Europeans were in some important areas better than the rest of the world and (for the time) high technology was one of those areas.

In the Opium wars the British army was equipped with reliable muskets, bayonets flintlock pistols and some early revolvers backed up with muzzle loading cannons The Chinese army were equipped with scale armor and armed with halberds and crossbow with a few large bore muzzle loading cannons. There was also a huge disparity in training and discipline Despite outnumbering the British by nearly 8 to one in total manpower the Chinese still lost in a rout. The Arabs were worse. The Turks a little better.

This doesn't even begin to deal with areas like science and industrial know-how that the Europeans had that most of the rest of the world didn't. Once again this says nothing about culture, art, literature or philosophy.

I guess all this really says is that if you are going to have a conquest and rule simulation in the Napoleonic era set on somewhat realistic Earth you are going to have have to focus on Europe or you are going to have give nations like China (I am a Chinese citizen by the way) abilities that they simply did not have.

The place to include other nations on an equal footing is actually the middle ages. I'd really like to see a M2TW map that covers the world. It might be fun to march a Byzantine army to the Great wall of China or a Chinese army to Paris.

[Geoffrey S]

Particularly for this time period I'd say centering on Europe is justified. It is after all the century in which Europe began to pull ahead of the rest of the world, the century in which India and China lost their dominant economic position.

[Freedom Onanist]

sick of those who are sick of europe

What that man says.

I am sick of people trying to populate TW with their bizzare, twisted and narrow nationalistic versions of history. Moving away from Europe and/or further back in history simply introduces more and more fantasy stylee units. Someone mentioned the Boxer Rebellion, can you imagine the kind of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" fantasy type units that might be included? If anyone remebers Shogun they will remember that guy with the super-samurai sword who could take on a whole unit by himself . Maybe the Boxers would have the power to stop bullets with the power of deep meditation - as the poor saps were told. What about the arcani, wailing women, amazons, etc...

Setting the game in an 18th cent Western context seems to me to be a great way of restricting some of the wilder enthusiasms for "cool" units and grounding it in some kind of reality. At least the re is plentiful historical reference material to stop them going mad on "machine gun" Chinese Xbows (I know they existed, but they were relatively useless) - a weapon that looks "cooler" than it had any significant impact on the battlefield.

Plus, the game is developed by people who are either European or closely associated with European history so why shouldn't they do a game about that?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Seeing as the game is focused on conquest and battles (at least this was the case for previous TW games), with much less focus on diplomacym politics and culture, the decision is rather obvious: you must include the continent where the most militarily powerful nations existed. The exclusion of China I guess is mostly because of the problems of creating so many factions. If you include China, you must include Japan, for instance, and a lot of other neighbors of China. The Himalayas and the Siberian steppes otherwise provide a good "natural" border to let the map end. If China is included, some 5-10 other factions with very big differences in culture between them have to be included as well, and that's a lot more work for the CA artists! Expanding the map to include China and Africa, as well as adding more material for the Napoleonic wars, seems to me like a good content for an expansion. The 30 years war will probably be the next full game.

[Vuk]

how many more times must we revisit this god forsaken piece of land


asia please

The last name of the game is Total War. While the other countries and cultures warfare may be just as interesting, the Europeans dominated warfare during this time. (which is one of the most interesting and glorious time periods in history.

how many more times must we revisit this god forsaken piece of land

THAT sounds bigotted, esp since it depends entirely on who you mean by God.
Also, I would be willing to bet that the reason the left so many places out (including Australia) is because they are planning a big expansion pack with them (or either that, a Napoleonic one :P).
There is a reason that all the other cultures adopted the Western ways of war: they were superior.
I think it is dumb (and bigotted) to say that one culture of peoples are better than another (as I believe you just did), but it is only honest to acknowledge that sometimes, certain cultures have greater techology and more advanced civilizations. (the Romans and Germans are a good example. It is not that the Germans were inferior to the Romans, but that the Romans had a much more efficient military and civilization. The Germans civilization just wasn't as good (at least as far as military goes)).

If you don't like it, don't play it. MOST people (and there is a poll that shows this) are happy with the decision, and this is what they wanted. It is what Total War players want.

Vuk the Seriously Annoyed

[Abokasee]

Heres a hint, I reckon if you look at history, most of the biggest events happend in europe,

Roman Empire
Medieval Europe (and the middle-east)
Colonies were mainly made by europeans
WW1
WW2 (REALLY BIG)

then it ends there, USA is very short, compared to every were else, plus, it discovery was a big accident, (Columbus was looking for Japan, and the Vikings were just sailing, and that other bloke who found it before columbus was looking japan too)

[Husar]

You didn't really expect most people in a TotalWar fanboard to hate TotalWar games, did you?

[Noir]

I am sorry just to exlpain myself better:

i am sick of those who are sick of europe

and also of those who are sick of america and africa and australia and japan and asia and china and antarctica.

How can one say such a thing? This is just a setting for a game, and such comments especially as thread titles are better avoided.

I was blessed enough by karma to visit many places in the world - i can safely say that in their own way they were all great including their histories cultures and traditions.

A bit of respect in presenting our views and opinions wouldn't hurt; you could say that "i am bored with this setting or that" - but saying that you are "sick of" this or that place is a bit too much IMHO.

Noir

[Stuperman]

Heres a hint, I reckon if you look at history, most of the biggest events happend in europe,

Roman Empire
Medieval Europe (and the middle-east)
Colonies were mainly made by europeans
WW1
WW2 (REALLY BIG)

then it ends there, USA is very short, compared to every were else, plus, it discovery was a big accident, (Columbus was looking for Japan, and the Vikings were just sailing, and that other bloke who found it before columbus was looking japan too)

that is a very western centric view of the world, of the top 5 largest empires of all time, 2 are European based, 1 Asian, and the Russian and Umayyad empires were split (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires)

p.s. I`m Canadian.

[magnum]

While I'd love to see another asian centered TW game, I think since this release is a new engine that it would be the perfect time to introduce gunpowder and naval combat. Both of those to me scream of the time period and location that CA picked as being the one to showcase.

I still hope that one day CA or someone returns to the Asian theater... just not today.

[Geoffrey S]

Wow, I'm seeing some awfully ill-informed and narrowminded posts here with regards to Europe's position in the order of things. Do realise that until the eighteenth century Europe was at best technologically, economically and militarily on par with Asia, at worst a backwater. Poor, war-ridden and with almost no influence on Asia, but plenty the other direction.

That's why this period is so fascinating for me to see in the TW series (and in my current uni studies, for that matter): this period is when the West began to outpace the rest, and things can still go a different way.

[Zenicetus]

Seeing as the game is focused on conquest and battles (at least this was the case for previous TW games), with much less focus on diplomacym politics and culture, the decision is rather obvious: you must include the continent where the most militarily powerful nations existed. The exclusion of China I guess is mostly because of the problems of creating so many factions. If you include China, you must include Japan, for instance, and a lot of other neighbors of China.

I think the main reason to exclude China and Japan is that the game will focus on projecting power overseas, colonizing the New World, with big fleet battles. China was sending HUGE sailing ships to India in the previous era, but due to political factors (the fall of the eunuch faction at the Court), the fleets were scrapped, the shipbuilding dockyards abandoned, the technology and seafaring experience was lost. They became very insular nations, not interested in exploration and founding colonies overseas. So the Empire game will reflect that, and leave China and Japan out as major players (or even minor factions, I hope).

China, Japan, India etc. could have been in the game as targets for land invasion and conquest, even if they weren't operating modern navies. But why bother with something that hard, when the New World is a shorter hop across the Atlantic, with a low density population of very low-tech natives to deal with?

Fewer principal factions also makes it easier for CA to do a better job with the main factions they do have. I'd rather see just five or six main factions, fleshed out with unique dialog, governments and rulers, than a large number of factions that aren't as immersive to play.

[Ozzman1O1]

While I'd love to see another asian centered TW game, I think since this release is a new engine that it would be the perfect time to introduce gunpowder and naval combat. Both of those to me scream of the time period and location that CA picked as being the one to showcase.

I still hope that one day CA or someone returns to the Asian theater... just not today.

whats with everyone and a new asia theme,just because of the funny sumos,ningas,and samurias in cartoons

[Copperknickers]

Its not just that, its the amazing warfare in asia, india has its huge infantry armies with weird weapons, china has its techno, japan has its late dutch etc and of course the mongols hav their horses. I being 8th indian am looking forward to the mughals in Etw and let us remember that the focus of this game is more the colonies than europe as they are where all the money is. Once youve secured a good strong starting position then you will focus on the colonies until the end when you have conquered them and can use the spoils of war to kill napoleon.

[Furious Mental]

All of the largest battles in the period took place in Europe. Colonies were important but they are not where most of the warfare took place. I wouldn't expect it to be very different in the game.

[Matt_Lane]

All of the largest battles in the period took place in Europe. Colonies were important but they are not where most of the warfare took place. I wouldn't expect it to be very different in the game.

I agree the battlefields might have been in Europe but the money that came to pay for the armies came from the colonies. The same should be true in the game. If you want a large British navy you should need colonial possessions to pay for it. Without this your right, it will be Medieval War with Muskets.

[Belgolas]

Well To think Europe was top dog all the time is misinformed. During the Medieval times Europe was far behind. Asia would have a lot of diversity. ETW will be a lot of similar armies. M2TW has far to many similar types of units. That is one reason I loved RTW/RTR because of diversity. Right now playing as England or France or Spain or HRE, ect are basically the same faction with only a few different units. ETW will probably be the same. Plus Egyptian empire was (I am pretty sure) the longest most powerful empire/faction. Plus the largest was in Asia.

[Csargo]

Well To think Europe was top dog all the time is misinformed. During the Medieval times Europe was far behind. Asia would have a lot of diversity. ETW will be a lot of similar armies. M2TW has far to many similar types of units. That is one reason I loved RTW/RTR because of diversity. Right now playing as England or France or Spain or HRE, ect are basically the same faction with only a few different units. ETW will probably be the same. Plus Egyptian empire was (I am pretty sure) the longest most powerful empire/faction. Plus the largest was in Asia.

The British Empire was the largest.

[mikelfg89]

the answer is very simple, most of the total war players are europeans or from north america(most of them of european lineage) and also the developers of the game, so we like to make and play our history , not the history of others.

[caravel]

the answer is very simple, most of the total war players are europeans or from north america(most of them of european lineage) and also the developers of the game, so we like to make and play our history , not the history of others.

And of course the first ever Total War game based in Asia is just a figment of our imaginations...?

[Vuk]

It is not bigotted to say that most of the fighting took place in Europe at this time. Also, there was a reason why the Asians and Africans imitated Western warfare.

I think some of you guys are just a little to focused on findind fault. This is NOT the Medieval period, it is a totally different time, and one in which some of the largest and most interesting wars ever were fought (as well as the most requested from the fans and the one best suited for CA's new advancements). It is common sense to focus on the most important players of the period.

Serbia and Bulgaria were not represented in M2TW, even though they were great powers, why? They were not as important as the other civs, and the developers need to draw a line somewhere.

Seriously, stop whining.

Vuk

[Belgolas]

The British Empire was the largest.

whoops forgot.

But anyways I was not talking about this time period. It can be a different time period for an Asian TW. Also I am Canadian and don't care to much for playing my own faction. Anyways hope the next one isn't focused on Europe.

Don't get me wrong I will enjoy it just like a little variety.

[Zarky]

whats with everyone and a new asia theme,just because of the funny sumos,ningas,and samurias in cartoons

It´s that in almost every historical game, main focus is on Europe and their colonies and so on, I can actually name so many places and regions in Europe that sometimes i feel i should bash my head to wall to forget something.
But otherwise im fine with Total Wars centering Europe. I don´t care much about regions, just historical events and so on.
Reason why there are no much Asian TW games is because it´s harder to gather history from Asia, and there were few Empires who fought against their natural enemies and so on (rather narrow view but im not Asian history specialist.) And i think TW Games should never go to 20th century World Wars since they were so fast paced when compared to prevorious games.
EDIT: And i wish the next game they make would have improved campaing map, im quite bored with regions. Even if now there is more than just 1 settlement in region.