Asia ton Barbaron disscusion thread

[Admetos]

Thanks Bootsiuv, thats really appreciated.

[Bootsiuv]

So...does that mean you'll keep Bosphorus if I can find something on them?

I'll begin tomorrow. This thing is starting to sound really, really promising. With the occasional support from the knowledgeable EB staff, we could really pull it off.

I just ask that you take your time....I'd be willing to wait up to a year for a eastern mod of eb quality.

Bootsiuv

[Admetos]

Of course, if we have info we'll definetly be keeping Bosporas. The only reason we were considering leaving them out is becasue of the lack of info, personally I'd hate to see them left out as much as you would.

I'm not sure it'll be as long as a year, but it'll definetly be up to EB standards.

[Malik of Sindh]

Time is not a problem too me,I have almost no personal life.I can work day and night.Its 2 days till my week off from school,so ill have even more time.

[Admetos]

You're the same as me Malik, a computer zombie.

[KuKulzA]

hmm... back on the topic of factional balance...
factions that are more likely to be taken off:
--- Pergamon, Atropatene, Kyrenaica, Bosphorians, Indo Greeks, Galations
factions that could go up on the list:
--- Tamilakam, Wusun, Kirat Nepal, Getai/Thrace, Meroe/Ethiopia

and Xionghu as an emergent faction or invasionary force...

now I sense that there is a GREAT unwillingness to let go of Kyrenaica and Bosphorans... which leaves us Pergamon, Indo-Greeks, Galations, and Atropatene.... I say we definitely keep Galations (representative of the Celtic influence) and Pergamon (they did end up ruling much of present-day Turkey)... however like said previously, Indo-greek status can be fused with Baktria... and I think Media Atropatene can be scrapped...

so IF Indo-greeks are merged into Baktria, and Atropatene scrapped...
we can then put in two playable factions...

Tamilakam are the ancient Dravidian peoples that lived on the tip of India and had frequently traded, explored, and warred with the Sri Lankans, sometimes overtaking Sri Lanka if I am not mistaken. They also have a variety of martial arts, and a rich history... and we at war with Asoka in his Kalinga campaign.

Kirat (Nepal) is a long period of time when the Kirats ruled Nepal but there isn't much readily available information on this period and finding out in-depth the Kirat Nepalese culture might be tough. But they were known for being fierce warriors, though that may have as much to do with their location as with their Tibeto-Burmese heritage... they did however trade with both India and China...

Wusun are an Asiatic nomadic group driven south and west by the Xiongnhu (Huns). They became an very powerful force in Central Asia between the Saka and Kang and the Xiongnhu... with whom they battled often. Some sources give them an Indo appearance and others a more Caucasian... but they were probably, like many groups, a large union of several related groups. It was they who forced the Yuezhi to move.

Getai/Thrace you guys know about, and Meroe or Ethiopia could represent an African country with the potential for 'international' power'.

I think out of those five...
Wusun and Tamilakan have most merit... Wusun to make sure those steppe guys watch their backs, and Tamils to make sure the Mauryans don't get too comfy...


EDIT:
if Bosphorans end up getting scrapped... I am sure the Thracians, Ethiopians, or Nepalese would love to take their place

[Malik of Sindh]

We have disscused this before,no getai.Shri lankans would work,and I agree with the idea of sraping Indo-Greeks.If the rest of the team votes scrap Cyrenaica,then ill agree,BUT ILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU.

EDIT:Also Tamilakan would need huge amounts of research,but if Bootsiuv has 80 million books in his uni library,i guess we will find some thing about them.

[Admetos]

I think we definetly need something to challenge the Mauryans, so Tamilakan sounds good. I also think we need Atropatene to represent that there's still a Persian influence in the area.

[KuKulzA]

so I assume this is the "revised" list?

1. Makedonia
2. Atropatene
3. Koinon Hellenon
4. KH shadow faction
5. Kyrenaica
6. Pergamon
7. Pontus
8. Hai
9. Ptolemaioi
10. Seleukeia
11. Pahalava
12. Boshphorian kingdom OR Wusun if Bos. are scrapped
13. Baktria
14. Saka Rauka
15. Mauryan empire
16. Tamilakan
17. Galatians
18. Saba
19. Romans (ermergent 220-170bc)
20. Yuehzi (emergent whenever)

is a KH shadow faction really necessary? couldn't it be replaced with Nepalese, Thracians, or Ethiopians?

[Malik of Sindh]

I can't edit Pharnakes post,hes not online.But yes,when hes online,Ill ask him to edit it.The KH shadow faction is the only way to represent the accurately.

[KuKulzA]

ok, well at least I've made some progress in terms of balancing this out... Tamilakan will be a great addition... and Wusun hopefully, if only it could be added without scrapping Bosphorans

[Bootsiuv]

Losing Indo Greeks is a mistake IMO....a big one.

Having a scripted invasion led by Demetrius if the Baktrians fight the Mauryans and conquer some of India....it would add a lot of flavor, especially to the Mauryan player....to have a massive invasion of several gold stacks pop up in the west of your empire....losing Indo-Greeks takes away a lot of the mods flavor IMO.

Bootsiuv

[Malik of Sindh]

But Baktrians and Indo Greeks are almost the same thing.

[KuKulzA]

Losing Indo Greeks is a mistake IMO....a big one.

Having a scripted invasion led by Demetrius if the Baktrians fight the Mauryans and conquer some of India....it would add a lot of flavor, especially to the Mauryan player....to have a massive invasion of several gold stacks pop up in the west of your empire....losing Indo-Greeks takes away a lot of the mods flavor IMO.

Bootsiuv

then in your opinion Bootsiuv, who do we get rid of to allow room for Indo-greeks... and say Tamils to both exist in the mod?

[Malik of Sindh]

If Pharnakes and Admetos would be online,we could disscuse this,in my opinion,Indo greeks get a kick in the butt.BTW Kukulza whats your msn?

[abou]

You guys have a KH and a Kyrene, but still no Ptolemaios Keraunos?

[Bootsiuv]

It would appear that there are many factions which may warrant inclusion....I still think Demetrius popping up in the west of my Mauryan empire would be an awesome thing....

Make it Menander I if you want...as he's more well known. Whatever though. I'm just here to help.

[Pharnakes]

If anyone goes, it should be Galatia. They are rapidly becoming the "Romans" of this mod, yes, they are complete resource pigs. One whole culture
all to themselves, lots of non shared unit models... Personaly I vote for their removal. And to be honest Malik, although Kyrene is fasinating due to its start pos, in reality that very position is why it should be removed, they never expanded at all, just clung to existence untill Magas dies, then they more or less just rolled over on their backs and accepted Ptolomaoi rule.

Pergamon and bosphorus are slightly different propostions, I am personaly pretty much neutral on them, Pergamon (much though I love them) should go first if either does, I think.

[Malik of Sindh]

Like I said,if rest of the team votes on kill Cyrene,ive got nothing against it.

[Pharnakes]

Yes you have... Don't lie

[Malik of Sindh]

I'd be willing to wait up to a year for a eastern mod of eb quality.
Bootsiuv

Lol,i could wait for 3 years.No really,we ARE going to make this eb quality,no matter how much this will cost to us.Me and admetos are computer zombies=no personal life.I am willing to spend all my time ,when im not in school,I can work day+night without 1 hour of sleep(but you will need to tell me atleast 10 reasons why lol).Call me whatever you want,but ill stay until this things done.

[paullus]

What if you didn't expand the map quite as far east, and did the following:

Mauryan faction: Taksashilan or Palatiputhran "Satrapy" -- if you start in 268, Asoka is in the highlands south of Palatiputhra, and though he was declared ruler, he had to conduct several wars against other Mauryan rulers before he could become sole ruler. You could potentially make the challengers a shadow faction, which could pop up again at later points.

Baktrians: Indo-Greeks - its definitely not worth losing the Indo-Greeks. I already stated that you could have them emerge related to the capture of Indian territories, but you could also have them emerge just as a shadow faction to the Baktrians.

Remaining faction choices:

The most important thing for you to do is find ways to represent these new factions with existing units. Atropatene requires new skins to existing units (you could use regional variants at first even), not brand new units. Several of the factions work that way, and its probably wise to choose those new factions first. Bosphoros, Kyrenaia, the KH replacements, Pergamon, Galatia, Indo-Greeks, Atropatene--you can get most of their entire roster off of existing regional or factional units. That's very important for making this happen.

[Admetos]

Personally I think that it would be a bog loss not to have the Indo-Greeks, like Bootsiuv said, they would add alot of flavour. Also, I know we are trying to represent the KH accurately, but this mod is an Eastern focused mod, and using two factions there takes away another faction that we could use in our main area. I agree that *maybe* the Galatians should be scrapped, but again, they would add a different flavour to the mod, just imagine carving out a barbarian empire in Anatolia, and I think they could also draw more players to the mod, I can't think of any RTW mod where the Galatians have been playable. At the moment, I would vote to keep the Galatians and Indo-Greeks, and scrap the shadow KH faction.

I would also vote to get rid of the Seleucids.
(That was a joke in case anyone was wondering)

[Justiciar]

Nice idea, and best of luck with it.

I personally think you should ditch Rome as a faction, though. You can't realistically portray them, in much the same way you can't realistically portray the Mauryan Empire in EB. There are plenty of factions you could switch focus to, besides. You could even get rid of KH and portray it more realistically - Sparta, Rhodes, and Athens each seperate, but in an alliance including the Ptolemaioi.

[Admetos]

Originally Posted by Justiciar
I personally think you should ditch Rome as a faction, though. You can't realistically portray them, in much the same way you can't realistically portray the Mauryan Empire in EB.

This was exactly my argument originally, but I think I was out-voted.

As for having 3 KH factions, Sparta, Athens and Rhodes, I also had this idea, but remember, we are trying to portray the eastern world and it's just not right having three faction in Greece.

[Pharnakes]

new map:

[img=https://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5490/92696870xw3.jpg]
[img=https://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5490/92696870xw3.ed25aab73b.jpg]

[Admetos]

The link's dead Pharnakes. It says "The address is not valid".

EDIT: That's better.

I don't like that, why so angled?

[Malik of Sindh]

Me neither.Egypt is cut off too.



was that a joke?
I get it now.This is some kind of conspirancy,WHAT DID YOU DO TO KYRENAICA!?

[Malik of Sindh]

First post updated with updated faction list

[Admetos]