Fanatic’s First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod

[konny]

eg if unit has secondary weapons, it stops using pikes immediately upon contact with the enemy

It is limited to the single weapon Hoplites and the like.

i guess these are VERY short pikes :)

Interessting, even without the modificated stats they kill less but hold longer with short_pikes. I think this recreates those specific units better.

[TWFanatic]

^Precisely.

Regarding the length: the spears are 8-9 feet long, which is the accurate length for hoplite overhand one-handed spears.

[IndianPrince]

Hey guys ... i installed this mod. But i dont think there have been any changes whatsoever on the game :(

Im sure i've installed it right as well. We shud install it in the EB folder right ?

Prince

[TWFanatic]

Install it into the same folder where you installed EB. Most likely, that's Program Files/Activision/Rome: Total War. You probably installed in Rome: Total War/EB.

[IndianPrince]

LOL ... Yeah :)

Thnx

p.s - is it save game compatible

Prince

[Hooahguy]

yes, it is save-game compatible.... at least for me it was

[IndianPrince]

Sweet .. it works !!! height of awesomeness :D

Prince

[TWFanatic]

Great! Go kick some ass.

[Xehh II]

I was wondering about the short pike and two-weapon hoplites, could you remove the sword from them leaving them just with a spear? Then the short pike would work wouldn't it?

[Ymarsakar]

TW, I was wondering what is the effect of adding the spear attribute to the primary weapons when short_pike already adds in a bonus of 8 against cavalry?

[TWFanatic]

@Xehh II: Yes.

@Ymarsakar: All EB spear-armed units have the "short_spear" attribute, which delivers a +4 bonus against cavalry and a penalty against infantry. I changed that to just "spear", which gives the unit a +8 bonus vs cavalry. Far more important to the accurate representation of hoplites is the fact that it gives the unit much more push. I've seen a unit of Spartiates drive an enemy infantry unit back a hundred feet before they finally broke and ran.

[Ymarsakar]

In your tests, did you find out whether short_pike gave out any attack or defense bonuses? And what kind of bonuses are we talking about, defensive or attack bonuses for spear and short_spear?

[TWFanatic]

Light_spear gives a default bonus of +8 to defense vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to defense vs infantry. It also offers less pushing power than spear. Spear gives a default bonus of +8 to attack vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to attack vs infantry. It has more pushing power than light_spear. Short_pike grants a bonus of +8 versus mounted units, but due to the qualities of the formation (spacing, cohesion, etc) it seems that it roughly gets an extra -1 versus everyone.

[Ymarsakar]

Thanks

[Lord Of Ruin]

This may be a coincidence but after implementing this mini mod my slingers don't seem to be killing anyone, were they changed in any way because not only do they do almost no damage no its like they are bugged, they are unresponsive and only around half of them actually launch anything after a windup. Then are even attacking random targets, not the ones i tell them too attack and the original target never left range.

I may be crazy however just seeing if anyone else noticed strange sling-ish changes

[TWFanatic]

This mod in no way effects slingers. EB 1.0 has decreased slinger stats though, perhaps you've just upgraded and are not used to the change.

Btw, ungroup units before attacking. Grouped units will attack the nearest enemy unit rather than the unit you tell them to attack. This includes missile units, when grouper they will fire on whoever is nearest even if you order them to fire on a different unit.

[Lord Of Ruin]

ok ill try that, maybe this is my first time using slingers since the patch or a just now noticed.

Thanks for the help

[Ymarsakar]

try turning fire at will off as well.

[TWFanatic]

I fail to see how that would help in this situation.

[svramj]

This further improves EBs balance thanks TWfanatic

[Midnj]

1. Is there any way to make it so the rear rank hoplites turn their spears horizontal (as opposed to pointing upwards @ 45 degrees) when they thrust? It looks kind of weird to have them kill someone by poking the air above the man's head.

2. Is there any way to make the short_pike hoplites charge properly? Eg. if you do a custom battle with one of the short_pike hoplites vs anything else and just click on them to attack, they will approach, sort of charge, then stop right in front of the enemy thus negating any charge bonus.

I really like the concept of the changes to the hoplites but these are somewhat problematic. I've been experimenting trying to fix it but haven't had any luck so far.

3. Is the short_pike and spear bonus cumulative for +16 vs cavalry? Or does the short_pike override the spear bonus? In other words, if I were to remove just the short_pike part of the mod and keep the rest, would that negatively impact the unit balance?

Thanks!

[Lgk]

Short_pike goes to hell, i'd say. Everything it brings into gameplay is another assortment of bugs.

[konny]

2. Is there any way to make the short_pike hoplites charge properly? Eg. if you do a custom battle with one of the short_pike hoplites vs anything else and just click on them to attack, they will approach, sort of charge, then stop right in front of the enemy thus negating any charge bonus.

The charge bonus for infantry is so low that it won't do anything. At least I haven't seen anyone dying from an infantry charge. Even cavalry needs a 25+ bonus to do any notable damage with the charge.

[TWFanatic]

1. Is there any way to make it so the rear rank hoplites turn their spears horizontal (as opposed to pointing upwards @ 45 degrees) when they thrust? It looks kind of weird to have them kill someone by poking the air above the man's head.

2. Is there any way to make the short_pike hoplites charge properly? Eg. if you do a custom battle with one of the short_pike hoplites vs anything else and just click on them to attack, they will approach, sort of charge, then stop right in front of the enemy thus negating any charge bonus.

I really like the concept of the changes to the hoplites but these are somewhat problematic. I've been experimenting trying to fix it but haven't had any luck so far.

3. Is the short_pike and spear bonus cumulative for +16 vs cavalry? Or does the short_pike override the spear bonus? In other words, if I were to remove just the short_pike part of the mod and keep the rest, would that negatively impact the unit balance?

Thanks!

1. No. Short_pike has ups and downs, this is one of the downs. However, all things considered, the ups far outweigh the downs in many people's opinions. Don't be afraid to test this mod to see which you prefer--uninstallation is easy with the backup file.

2. All Infantry charge like that. I have increased the charge of all hoplite units, not that it even means anything though, for as Konny said infantry charges are worthless in RTW (meaning there's nothing EB can do about it).

3. The effects are not cumulative AFAIK. Btw, all spear-armed units in EB use short_spear. I changed this with hoplites to just spear (in addition to short_pike). Spear greatly increases a unit's pushing power.

[Midnj]

1. No. Short_pike has ups and downs, this is one of the downs. However, all things considered, the ups far outweigh the downs in many people's opinions. Don't be afraid to test this mod to see which you prefer--uninstallation is easy with the backup file.

2. All Infantry charge like that. I have increased the charge of all hoplite units, not that it even means anything though, for as Konny said infantry charges are worthless in RTW (meaning there's nothing EB can do about it).

3. The effects are not cumulative AFAIK. Btw, all spear-armed units in EB use short_spear. I changed this with hoplites to just spear (in addition to short_pike). Spear greatly increases a unit's pushing power.

Great, thanks!

Don't get me wrong I really like the fact that the hoplites stay together and can _actually_ break a line via pushing without either killing the entire unit in front of it or forcing them to rout. It adds a new tactical dimension to battles. In fact I probably won't take out the short_pike when I play a faction that relies on hoplites.

Did not know all infantry charge was screwed up and I guess it hindsight it really doesn't matter too much..

Thanks for the great mod!

[MrMerisi]

If I try to extract the archive to the EB folder in C:\...\Rome - Total War\EB, it asks me if I want to overwrite the existing folders.

So I have copied and pasted file by file into EB\Data.

Will that work?

edit: Thanks!

edit II: Looks like it is working. I am using the ALX.exe rather than RTW.exe. Do you know if there were any changes in Alexander that affected the way hoplites fight?

[TWFanatic]

I would assume not but I don't know for sure.

[TWFanatic]

*bump*

[MiniMe]

One more *bump* just to please ye

[Mouzafphaerre]

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