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Thread: 17 Centruy IH

  1. #31
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Northnovas
    Okay, I have been lurking through this thread and reading the other IH for awhile and this looks interesting to be involved in, so I will sign up for Russia and of the dual Tsars I will take Peter the Great.
    I got a lot of the political stuff reading Peter's bio is there any other sources recommended for the military history of country?
    I remind that it starts decades before Peter took power.

    Most likely - here is the ONLY place you can find anything detailed about Russian military of that period in English...

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53648


    There are some minor mistakes - for example the author mentions some battle with the Poles which probably never happened, but still it is the best source possible...


    In addition I suggest this thread if you need some pictures to figure what is what

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72384



    As a short side note I am quite certain that the Russian army in 1654-1660 was generally of better quality and experience than the force that Peter gathered in 1700 - only later the new army of Peter the Great became really superior. And, yes I am quite serious.

    That ends my intrusion.

  2. #32
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Cegorach never fails to impress me with his knowledge of history




    http://www.le.ac.uk/hi/bon/ESFDB/Armies/armies.html


    knock yourselves out . got some information there.

  3. #33
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Yes you are correct and thanks for the info. I realized after I posted that Peter would be the at the end of this era. I will just have to do some more reading.
    cegorach thanks for the links very nice work!
    Last edited by Northnovas; 11-20-2007 at 05:49.

  4. #34

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Information on the Great State of Poland-Lithuania
    - Jan II Kasmier

    The Nihil novi act adopted by the Polish Diet in 1505 transferred all legislative power from the king to the Diet. This event marked the beginning of the period known as "Nobles' Democracy" or "Nobles' Commonwealth" (Rzeczpospolita szlachecka) when the state was ruled by the "free and equal" Polish nobility (szlachta). The Lublin Union of 1569 constituted the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as an influential player in European politics and a vital cultural entity.

    The death of Sigismund II Augustus in 1572 was followed by a three-year interregnum period during which adjustments were made to the constitutional system. The lower nobility was now included in the selection process, and the power of the monarch was further circumscribed in favor of the expanded noble class. Each king had to sign the so called Henrician Articles, which were the basis of the political system of Poland, and pacta conventa which were various personal obligations of the chosen king. From that point, the king was effectively a partner with the noble class and constantly supervised by a group of senators. Once the Jagiellons disappeared from the scene, the fragile equilibrium of the Commonwealth government began to go awry. The constitutional reforms made the monarchy electoral in fact as well as name. As more and more power went to the noble electors, it also eroded from the government's center.


    "The Republic at Zenith of Power. Golden Liberty. Kings election in 1573." By Jan MatejkoIn its periodic opportunities to fill the throne, the szlachta exhibited a preference for foreign candidates who would not found another strong dynasty. This policy produced monarchs who were either totally ineffective or in constant debilitating conflict with the nobility. Furthermore, aside from notable exceptions such as the able Transylvanian Stefan Batory (1576-1586), the kings of alien origin were inclined to subordinate the interests of the Commonwealth to those of their own country and ruling house.

    Commonwealth-Ottomans relations were never too warm, as the Commonwealth viewed itself as the 'bulwark of the Christendom' and together with Habsburgs and Republic of Venice was the thorn in the Ottoman plans of European conquest. Since the second half of the 16th century, Polish-Ottomans relations, never too friendly, were further worsened by the escalation of Cossacks-Tatars border warfare, which turned the entire border region between the Commonwealth and Ottoman Empire into a semi-permanent warzone.

    In the 1595, magnates of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth intervened in the affairs of Moldavia. This would start a series of conflicts that would soon spread to Transylvania, Wallachia and Hungary, when the Commonwealth forces clashed with the forces backed by Ottoman Empire and occasionally Habsburgs, all competing for the domination over that region.

    With the Commonwealth engaged on its northern and eastern borders with near constant conflicts against Sweden and Muscovy, its armies were spread thin. Finally, the southern wars culminated in the Polish defeat at the battle of Cecora in 1620. Eventually the Commonwealth was forced to renounce all claims to Moldavia, Transylvania, Wallachia and Hungary.

    Władysław IV Vasa (1632-1648) (my predecessor)
    Wladislaw tried to achieve many military goals, including conquest of Russia, Sweden and Turkey. His reign is that of many small victories, few of them bringing anything worthwhile to the Commonwealth. For a time, he was elected a tsar, but never had any control over Russian territories. In the end, like his father, he failed to strengthen the Commonwealth or prevent the crippling events of The Deluge or Chmielnicki Rebellion, that devastated the Commonwealth in 1648.


  5. #35
    Prince of Maldonia Member Toby and Kiki Champion, Goo Slasher Champion, Frogger Champion woad&fangs's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I changed my mind. I want to be Transylvania.
    Why did the chicken cross the road?

    So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road,
    but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely
    chicken's dominion maintained. ~Machiavelli

  6. #36
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Waldinger
    I changed my mind. I want to be Transylvania.

    You wish is my Command



    If you have most or almost most of you information posted, you can start PMing each other or talking here in character, but remember, if you send PM's, make sure you tell me about them, since I don't know who will send out what of course until you tell me them in your decsions. Rememrber, if you making a offer, 3 PM's max. 1 for the Offer, 2nd for accpect/decline/counter offer and 3rd PM for accpect/decline/ counter offer for NExt Turn. Chapter 1 isn't going to be up untill all the information will be in, but if you just want to start talking to pass the time and get some stuff ready for your decisons for CHapter 1, go ahead

  7. #37
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Ok I would like to take the Swisslanders please.

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  8. #38
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    Ok I would like to take the Swisslanders please.


    Excellet Choice My Friend! Take good care of my Swiss !!

  9. #39
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Keep posting your country information everyone! Got 3 already, but need everyone elses.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Brandenburg-Prussia


    Leader:

    Frederick William aka The Great Elector
    Successor:Frederick III-First King of Prussia Frederick I

    Alliances:During this time alliances were made and broken easily.

    Pacts: No idea

    War: Sweden afaik

    Rebellions: None that I know of

    Military campaigns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...saw_%281656%29

    Army Org: The military of Prussia was a disciplined one with a strength of around 25000 in 1660. The Brandenburg army was close to the cutting edge of the European military innovation.

    Economy: No idea

    Trading:No idea

    Rule:Frederick William was a major military leader and a rebuilder after the Thirty years war.

    Religions: Protestant;acceptance

    Social situations: No, they are generally happy with their lives
    other then maybe Prussia.

    M: None that I know of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  11. #41
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichigo
    Brandenburg-Prussia


    Leader:

    Frederick William aka The Great Elector
    Successor:Frederick III-First King of Prussia Frederick I

    Alliances:During this time alliances were made and broken easily.

    Pacts: No idea

    War: Sweden afaik

    Rebellions: None that I know of

    Military campaigns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...saw_%281656%29

    Army Org: The military of Prussia was a disciplined one with a strength of around 25000 in 1660. The Brandenburg army was close to the cutting edge of the European military innovation.

    Economy: No idea

    Trading:No idea

    Rule:Frederick William was a major military leader and a rebuilder after the Thirty years war.

    Religions: Protestant;acceptance

    Social situations: No, they are generally happy with their lives
    other then maybe Prussia.

    M: None that I know of.


    Good way you set up your Info Ichi

  12. #42
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I think that East Prussia is contended between Prussia and Poland. Ceg?
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  13. #43
    Prince of Maldonia Member Toby and Kiki Champion, Goo Slasher Champion, Frogger Champion woad&fangs's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Leader: Gyorgy Rakosci II

    Alliances: Allied with Sweden and Brandenburg during the Great Northern War but mostly because they were also invading Poland. The Hapsburgs(Austria) assist in fighting against the Turks but they can not be considered allies. They are trying to increase their influence in Transylvania and eventually integrate them into their empire. The Papacy has historically recognized Transylvania’s importance in stopping Ottoman expansion.

    Pacts: None that I am aware of

    War: The Ottomans, and I Want claim the crown of Poland if I can get the chance

    Rebellions: I am the rebellion :)

    Military campaigns: Fighting the Turks on my own land. The city of Varad is besieged.

    Army Org: During the Great Northern War, Gyorgy Racoski II led an army of 40,000 against Poland. Army was influenced by the the Cossaks and the Hapsburg armies.

    Economy: Feudal system. During this time the serfs are increasingly freed and titles of nobility granted to provide soldiers against the Turks. However, they still had to pay taxes and were Nobles only in name.

    ]Trading:[ I am landlocked and at war with the Ottomans and I do not have good relations with the Poles so I probably just trade with the Hapsburgs.

    ]Rule]: Ruled by a prince. Has a diet that can dispose the prince as did happen to Gyorgy Rakosci II in 1658 after his unlawful and failed invasion of Poland. Constant political meddling by both the Hapsburgs and the Ottomans.

    Religions: Due to the fact that Transylvania was now beyond the reach of Catholic religious authority, Protestant preaching such as Lutheranism and Calvinism were able to flourish. In 1568 the Edict of Turda proclaimed four religious expressions -Catholic, Lutheranism, Calvinism and Unitarianism - as "accepted" (receptae), while Orthodoxy, which was the confession of the Romanian population, was proclaimed as "tolerated" (tolerata). The Edict of Turda is considered by mostly Hungarian historians as the first legal guarantee of religious freedom in Christian Europe.

    Social situations: The peasants despise the Ottomans more than me. Moldavia and Walachia can be united against the Ottomans but they want their independence as much as I do.
    Last edited by woad&fangs; 11-21-2007 at 23:55.
    Why did the chicken cross the road?

    So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road,
    but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely
    chicken's dominion maintained. ~Machiavelli

  14. #44
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    I think that East Prussia is contended between Prussia and Poland. Ceg?
    The Duchy, which had its capital in Königsberg, was inherited by the Hohenzollern prince-electors of Brandenburg in 1618

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Prussia
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  15. #45
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I am corrected.
    Treaty of Oliva
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  16. #46
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    The Papacy:

    Current Pope: Alexander VII, has reigned since 1644.

    Alliances: None.

    Pacts: None.

    Rebellions: Recently annihihalated the Duchy of Castro in 1649.

    Military campaigns: None, atm.

    Army Organization: Other than the swiss guard, I'm currently having trouble finding info. Oh, it did say in one article that the Pope sent "large quantities of arms military supplies including twenty thousand pounds of gunpowder" to the Irish during the English Civil War.

    Economy: Recent efforts in the previous years have been made to recapture the glory of Rome, and much effort has been put into rebuilding it into a grander capital, though the population is still only a bit over 100,000.

    Trading: Not much info, although it can be considered doubtful that I trade with England, on account of them being protestant, and the fact that the Papacy supported the Irish factions during the recent English civil war.

    Rule: Led by the Pope, who is elected by the Cardinals every time the previous Pope dies. Cardinals and bishops are frequently used as emissaries. Not really sure exactly how it was run below the Pope.

    Religions: Honestly, must I even say? I am El Papa!

    Social situations: Constantly changing political changes due to nations varying from Catholicism to Protestantism and vice versa. Pope is VERY unsupportive of Protestants, generally, and VERy supportive of Catholics.
    Last edited by seireikhaan; 11-22-2007 at 05:09.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  17. #47
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Tsardom of Muscovy





    Leader: Alexis I (the Quietest One)



    Alliances: None

    Pacts: None

    War: Hostilities with Sweden, Poland, Ottomans

    Army Org: The military was under a transformation starting 20 years earlier. Conscription was in place by this time the army general composition:
    - Regular
    - Enlisted
    - Conscripted
    - Settled
    There were approx 250,000 men in military service
    An example of a Russian field army,
    In the 1663 the Russian field army against Poland consisted of:
    - 42 Infantry regiments - 24,377 men
    - 8 Dragoon regiments - 9,334
    - 22 Reiter regiments - 18,795
    - 2 Lancer regiments - 1,185
    - 1 Hussars - 757

    Lancers appeared in the 1660 replacing Reiters. The regiment consited of 5 companies each of about 100 men. One company in each Lancer Regiment was Reiter.

    There were approx 5000 guns by the 1660's.

    Economy: Agricultural base centralized and at times ineffecient. The government monopolized the tobacco crop. Arkhangelsk is a port used to trade forest products with the Dutch and English and thrived in manufacturing in naval stores and potash.
    Strategic manufacturing was in metallurgy.
    Leaders in pig iron, potash by the start of the 1700's.The state revenues profited from the expansion eastward beyond the Urals and southward into the black-soil region.

    Trading: By sea England and the Netherlands. Land with Eurpoean nations.

    Rule: Alexis I who came to the throne as a young boy 1645 suceeding his father Mikhail I.

    Religion: Orthodox

    Social Situation: Were beginning a state of transformation and influenced by westernization but a very slow process involving small groups. Serfdom was a way of life. It was also Alexis that began the practice of sending common criminals and politcal offenders to Siberia.

    M: Not sure what this field represents.
    Last edited by Northnovas; 11-22-2007 at 05:21.

  18. #48
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I had to add a comment this was a bit of homework and I am not use to that!!! The coat of arms is later but I liked it and the military stuff is tricky to peg down. I thought I hit a gold mind of information when I realized I had found the source of cegorach information from the TW Centre post. As I was reading the article it was becoming familiar. I am not sure what the M represents I was just following the template.

  19. #49

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Austria/HRE (Habsburgs)

    Current Emperor: Leopold I (1657(?)-1705)



    Alliances: Allied with England,Dutch Netherlands and some German states in Spanish Sucession against Bavaria,France and Spain.

    Pacts: None at the moment.

    Rebellions: Hungary rebellions in the next few years.

    Military campaigns: None ATM


    Wars: 1662, took on the Ottomans, but none in 1660 as of yet....

    Army Org: 24,500 standing army, without the mitlita. Can raise more, escally can get more from German States, but have a tough time paying them and supplying them.

    Economy: Trying to get up on Back Taxs, pay off loans, and pay troops. Been making some medium sucesses, but got a way to go still.

    Trading: Not much information here, but presume trading with Poland,Germany States,Veince,France.

    Rule: Leopold I, elected by German Electors for the HRE Emperor. He is a popular ruler as of now, making his way to towns and greeting people in towns his precessors never bothered to go to.

    Religions: Devout Catholic Leopold I. Austria is Devout Catholics, German States are divided up by Catholic/Cavlinism and Lutherlism. Hungary has alot of Protestnats to.

    Social situations: Constantly changing political changes due to nations going to war around them and such.

  20. #50
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Doing Good All!!!


    I want to have Spain and the Ottomans Taken by tomarrow night (Thursday), or at least have the Ottomans taken, and all information in by Saturday, and I'll get Chapter 1 up Tuesday then (going hunting, and got to rest my wrists due to CTS over the next few days, then Tuesday I'll spend a few hours and get Chapter 1 up)

  21. #51
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    I think that East Prussia is contended between Prussia and Poland. Ceg?

    Ichigo and {BHC}KingWarman888 - you should read it too.



    The situation was far more complicated.

    According to Welawa-Bydgoszcz treaty (1657) Hohenzollerns did get the full rights in Eastrn Prussia, however if the dynasty was ever cease to 'produce' a male heir the entire territory would be inherited by the Commonwealth - for that reason the citizens of Eastern Prussia had to swear alliagiance to a Polish king every time there was a change on the throne of Brandenburg.

    In addition Brandenburg got Lebork and Bytów duches as vassal territories and Elbig to own which could be payed back for a price of 400 000 talars.

    In addition Poland was supposed to pay 150 000 talars for 1 500 soldiers which Brandenburg was supposed to deliver - if that amount was not payed in time of three years Brandenburg had the right to take Drahim and neighbouring territories.

    In real life Brandenburg took Drahim in 1668 (unlawfully) which coused a lot of tension between both states and could end in an open war (at least Jan III Sobieski was going to start one) if the Ottomans didn't keep Poland occupied.




    Now the Kalkstein incident.

    After in 1660 Hohenzollerns took the full power over Eastern Prussia local population tried to defend their rights given by the Commonwealth decades earlier.

    In 1661 during illegal gatherings ( Grand Parliament) the local nobility protested against new taxes and defended their rights.

    On 4th July 1662 three districts of Konigsberg formed an alliance created after anti-Teutonic (and pro-Polish) organisations from the XVth century like the Lizard League.

    On 25th October The Grand Elector managed to get rid of them and imprison their leaders.
    Grand Parliament was dispearsed in May 1663 and the states of Prussia sworn alliagiance to Brandenburg in October.

    The resistence continued under the leadership of Albrecht Kalkstein and after his death by his son Krystian Ludwik (I am using Polish spelling) an officer serving previously in Polish, Lithuanian and Brandenburg armies - in 1667 he was sentenced to life imprisonment, but managed to escape in 1670 when his sentence was changed for 100 000 talar fine.
    He moved to Poland where he found supporters - especially among protestant nobility. He was trying to make Poland renounce the treaties with Brandenburg and re-gain control over Prussia. He managed to deliver his message during the Sejm (Parliament) meeting in 1670 criticising unlawful taxation, religious intolerance and violation of laws and rights done by the Grand Elector.
    In turn it instilled new waves of resistence in Prussia.

    Brandenburg demanded from Poland to return Kalkstein, but after it refused for the third time ( Polish law protected refugees, especially political) Brandt - the Brandenburgian envoy in Warsaw lured the man into a trap and kidnapped him to Bandenburg (on 9th December 1670) where he was imprisoned and after a special trial in January 1672 executed in November 1672.

    The kidnapping caused huge uproar in Poland and Lithuania as well as in Eastern Prussia. Lithuanian army started preparing to enter Eastern Prussia and end the reign of the Hohenzollerns there, but at the same time a huge Ottoman army invaded Poland...

    Kalkstein affair was later exploited by Jan III Sobieski to create support for his plans to attack Brandenburg and annex Eastern Prussia entirely using the secret alliance with France he planned to announce (against Habsburgs too - to return Silesia), but Ottoman ( i.e. French ally) resistence against any peace treaty acceptable to Poland and Swedish (another Sobieski's ally) inability to win anything made it all impossible.



    OK, I hope it explains a bit.

  22. #52
    A Confused Asian Member Ayachuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    The United Provinces


    Leaders
    Since the leader is elected to the postion of Pensionary for life, I will put down the people who historically were elected after John de Witt's death as his heirs.
    Grand Pensionary-Johan de Witt (1625-1672); term of office:(1653-1672)

    Biography and Motives/Strategy
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Johan de Witt brought about peace with England after the First Anglo-Dutch War with the Treaty of Westminster in the year 1654. The peace treaty had a secret annex, the Act of Seclusion, forbidding the Dutch ever to appoint William II's infant son as new stadtholder. De Witt did his utmost to prevent any member of the House of Orange from gaining any power, convincing many provinces to abolish the stadtholderate entirely. Influenced by the values of the Roman republic, he bolstered his policy by publicly endorsing the theory of republicanism. De Witt's power base was the wealthy merchant class. The people supporting him were called the "States faction", opposed by the "Orange faction" that was popular among the artisan class. This antagonism paralleled a division between moderate and intolerant Calvinists. His pro-French policy however would prove to be his undoing. In the Dutch rampjaar (disaster year) of 1672, when France and England during the Franco-Dutch War (Third Anglo-Dutch War) attacked the Republic, the Orangists took power by force and expelled him. Recovering from an earlier attempt on his life in June, he was assassinated by a carefully organized lynch "mob" after visiting his brother Cornelis de Witt in prison.

    Future office holders:
    Caspar Fagel (1672-1688)
    Michiel ten Hove (1688-1689)
    Antonie Heinsius (1689-1720)

    Military and Military Strategy
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    At first the Dutch had a very strong standing field army and large garrisons in their numerous fortified cities. From 1648 on however the Army was neglected; and for a few years even the Navy — until rivalry with England forced a large extension of naval forces. The army numbers would fluctuate from 20,000-60,000 men although during the wars with Spain; the Netherlands were able to maintain a 100,000 strong army. The civic militias were recruited from the modestly wealthy and they could be of political importance for example, when in 1672 they sided with the populace and were against the elites who wanted to give up to the Sun King's France. The rest were English (43), French (32), Scottish (20), Walloon (11), and German (9) companies fighting for the Dutch because they had the money to pay them.

    After having gained its independence in 1648, the Netherlands tried in various coalitions to help to contain France, which had replaced Spain as the strongest nation of Europe. The end of the Spanish War of Succession (1713) marked the end of the Dutch Republic as a major player. In the 18th century, it just tried to maintain its independence and stuck to a policy of neutrality.
    The Dutch-Swedish War, 1657-1660, was a Dutch intervention in the Northern Wars. When Charles X of Sweden had been unable to continue his hold on Poland — partly because the Dutch fleet relieved the besieged city of Danzig in 1656 — he turned his attention on Denmark. In 1658 the Dutch sent an expedition fleet of 75 ships, 3000 cannon and 15.000 troops; in the Battle of the Sound it defeated the Swedish fleet and relieved Copenhagen. In 1659 the Dutch liberated the other Danish Isles and the essential supply of grain, wood and iron from the Baltic was guaranteed once more.
    Franco-Dutch War (1672–1678) was a war fought between France and a quadruple alliance consisting of Brandenburg, the Holy Roman Empire, Spain, and the United Provinces. Louis, despite the successful Siege of Maastricht in 1673, was forced to abandon his plans of conquering the Dutch and revert to a slow, cautious war of attrition around the French frontiers. By 1678, he had managed to break apart his opponents' coalition, and managed to gain considerable territories by the terms of the Treaty of Nijmegen. Most notably, the French acquired the Franche Comte and various territories in the Netherlands from the Spanish.



    Government and Foreign Relations
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The government was decentralized and was controlled by Holland which was the richest and most powerful province; they contributed 60% of the country's budget-half of that came from Amsterdam. Holland was ruled by the States of Holland, a body composed of delegates from 18 towns and a delegation of nobility could also vote. The States met four times a year, but there was a permanent official known as the Pensionary. Because the Pensionary formulated and implemented policies including resolving disputes between delegate, the office would become very influential. (Like how Stalin used the General Secretary's powers of selecting key government officials to wheel and deal his way to power before he killed everyone else in the Great Purge and transformed the once overlooked position into the number one post in the Soviet Union.) This was especially true b/c although in theory the Pensionary was elected for five years, many would hold the tenure for the rest of their life.
    Another important post in the government was the stadholder who oversaw the public order and justice. This position coupled with the office of Captain-General (theoritical leader of the armed forces) would make the person second only to the Pensionary. One family was able to dominate the politics of the Netherlands and they were the Orange family. (The color of the original flag had an orange stripe in it, but as the family became less popular and the republicans gained more power, the stripe would eventually become red by de Witt's time) From the beginning of the United Provinces, one of these two posts were held by a member of the Orange family and would make them the most influential family in the Netherlands. In fact due to their high influential status, the Orange family would sometimes come into conflict with various other factions including the Pensionary who would try to curtail the Orange family's power by banning the Stadholder office.

    The Peace of Münster was a treaty between the United Netherlands and Spain signed in 1648. It was a landmark treaty for the Dutch republic and one of the key events in Dutch history; with it, the United Netherlands finally became independent from the Holy Roman Empire. The treaty was a part of the Peace of Westphalia which ended both the Thirty Years' War and the Eighty Years' War. At peace with England after the First Anglo-Dutch War with the Treaty of Westminster in the year 1654. The peace treaty had a secret annex, the Act of Seclusion, forbidding the Dutch ever to appoint William II's infant son as new stadtholder. The Second Anglo-Dutch War began in 1665, lasting until 1667 when it ended with the Treaty of Breda, in which De Witt negotiated very favorable agreements for the Republic after the partial destruction of the British fleet in the Raid on the Medway. The Netherlands would soon acquire alliances with Spain and France soon after.The Triple Alliance of 1668 consisted of England, Sweden, and the United Provinces. It was formed to halt the expansion of Louis XIV's France in the War of Devolution. The alliance never engaged in combat against France, but it was enough of a threat to force Louis to halt his offensive and sign the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle with Spain. The League of Augsburg was formed in 1686 between the Holy Roman Emperor, Leopold I, and various of the German princes (including the Palatinate, Bavaria, and Brandenburg) to resist French aggression in Germany. The alliance was joined by Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the United Provinces.


    Economy and the Society
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The Dutch had large merchant and shipping fleets. In 1670, about 10% of Dutch adult males were sailors-the Dutch had more trading ships than England, France, Germany, Portugal, Scotland, and Spain combined. Of the 20,000 trading vessels carrying the maritime commerce of Europe; 15,000 were Dutch trading ships.
    The Dutch East India Company was founded in 1602 with a starting capital investment of 6,425,000 florins, (3,675,000 of those florins came from merchants based in Amsterdam), nearly 40X the amount of capital the British trading company had when it was founded. The Dutch East India Company traded in tea, coffee, and spices and its monopoly would not be challenged until the latter half of the 17th century by an emergent English East India Company. The Dutch West India Company was founded in 1621 with 7,100,000 florins and traded in slaves, sugar, gold, and ivory but constant war and raids with the Spanish would negate any profits from the trade. By the 1630-1640's, most of their profit came from raiding those riduculously mega-galleons hauling gold and silver from New Spain.
    Slave trade was also big in the Netherlands and they would manage the slave trade for the neighbouring factions and commanded a 10,000 fleet of slave vessels. Amsterdam would be the Slave Capital of Western Europe until the 1700s when the English would dominate the seas and subsequently the trade.
    The Dutch were also involved in fishing but 1650 onward constant raids by the English/France Privateers would destroy much of their fishing trade. The Dutch also depended on the Baltic for the timber they use for shipbuilding and England would continually target Dutch shipping lanes in the Baltic which resulted in the Baltic trade dropping to 50% of their prewar trading profits. Other trades in the Baltic involved importing grains from Poland. However, the agricultural revolution/Tulip craze would soon end the extremely profitable Eastern European grain trade in Western Europe although the Dutch would still import some grain due to their dense population and lack of farmland. Nevertheless, the Dutch would find new customers for the grain in the Ottoman Empire and the New World Islands although one wonders why the Sultan didn't just use the shorter route through the Balkans to get their grain.
    The wars took a tremendous financial effort to win, costing the Dutch 960,000 florins in 1579, 5.5 million florins in 1599, and 18.8 million florins in 1640. Despite this expense, the Dutch were in stronger financial shape than ever by the end of the wars and were well on their way to becoming the dominant commercial and economic power in Europe. However, even the Dutch golden age couldn't last forever and in the latter half of the 17th century the Dutch annual debt soared over 500% due to their overextended military and foreign wars with England, France, and Spain/HRE.

    The Dutch society would have good morale and they even had charitable instuitions that would help up to 10% of the urban population at the begining of the 1650s. They were tolerant of other religions although some were viewed with more favorable light. After independence the Netherlands adopted Calvinism as a state religion, but practiced religious tolerance towards non-Calvinists. It became a haven for Jewish and Protestant refugees from Flanders, France (Huguenots), Germany and England (Pilgrims for instance). There have always been considerable differences between orthodox and liberal interpretations of Calvinism: between Arminianism and Gomarism in the 17th century. Many immigrants came to the cities of the province Holland in the 17th and 18th century, especially from Protestant parts of Germany. The amount of first generation immigrants from outside the Netherlands in Amsterdam was nearly 50% in the 17th and 18th century. If you add immigrants from the second and third generation and immigrants from the Dutch countryside, then the city was mainly inhabited by immigrants. People in most parts of Europe were very poor, and there was a lot of unemployment. But in Amsterdam there was always work. Tolerance was important, because a continuous influx of immigrants was necessary for the economy. Travellers were surprised that the police didn't control them in Amsterdam. The Netherlands also sheltered many famous refugees, including Flemish Protestants; Portuguese and German Jews; French Protestants (Huguenots); the founder of modern philosophy, Descartes; and, temporarily, the Pilgrim Fathers, who were to become symbols for the US tradition of republicanism.
    However, this was before the wealth would be strained. The lack of funds would hamper the Dutch's ability to compete with foreign markets and would begin a vicious cycle that would lead to a bankrupt state. The continual wars and competion would eventually lead to low morale and an unwillingless to restore their rightful place in Europe and would set in motion, the Dutch Empire's Golden Age demise. In order to fund any more wars, new taxes would have to be imposed but the merchants and influentual families believed taxes would compromise an already weakened economy and thus the Dutch would continue their slide into debt.



    Couldn't find anything about the amount of florins in treasury, instead got facts of how rich the country was and how none of the other nations could compare. So I just put in the amount of money invested in the trading companies to give a ballpark figure of how much money I could raise.
    Last edited by Ayachuco; 11-27-2007 at 22:45.
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  23. #53
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Hey,


    looking good!!! I'll start working on the chapter Sunday, so get you information in, which most of you are doing . Please someone, take Ottomans! I do not want to be stuck doing Ottomans lol.

  24. #54
    Honorary Argentinian Senior Member Gyroball Champion, Karts Champion Caius's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Spain for me!




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  25. #55

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    England:

    Ruler: Charles II

    Foreign Relations: Strong ties with France. Frosty relations with the Dutch.

    Army: The army declined after the Restoration, will research this more.

    Economy: Will research more.

    (I've got a good book covering Restoration England, but I don't have time to look at it tonight or tomorrow, will post information on Monday).

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  26. #56
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I'll get this chapter 1 up next Sunday, because I am giving all of you guys time to research your information, since some people just joined and such.

  27. #57

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I, Leopold I of Austria, wishs to extand our Hand in Allaince to Jan II Kasmier, of the Polish-Litshutian Commowealth!



    Leopold I

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Tomarrow (Monday), I will officaly update the rules regarding building, retructiment and income/expenses .

  29. #59

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by MaddenKhan2
    I, Leopold I of Austria, wishs to extand our Hand in Allaince to Jan II Kasmier, of the Polish-Litshutian Commowealth!



    Leopold I

    Dispite your misspelling of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's name , I shall accept your offer of alliance, comrade Leopold of Austria. While Poland looks not to unprovoked war, let the enemies of Poland know that if invaded, they shall bow to the might of the Polish-Lithuanian-Austrian Alliance!

    Jan II, King of Poland, Archduke of Lithuania and Lord of the Eastern Realms.

  30. #60
    Still warlusting... Member Warluster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    The Sun King wishes to offer a alliance to the two nations of Brandenburg, and England. France hopes you accept soon.

    Louis XIV, Duke of Bourbon, King of France, King of Navarre, Duke of Parma, Duke of Seville, Grand Duke of Luxembourg, King of the Two Sicilies,

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