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Thread: 17 Centruy IH

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default 17 Centruy IH

    The year is 1660.
    Charles II regained the English throne after the English Civil War and Oliver Cromwell’s Interregnum.
    Since 1658, the Ottomans have been expanding their reign over Eastern Europe, particularly in pacifying Wallachia, Moldova and Transylvania. This greatly concerns the young Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I. Not only does he have to worry about the Turkish threat, France also poses a threat on the Empire’s western border. There is some concern about Louis XIV’s potentially growing influence in the German states.
    The Austrians are currently allied with the Poles, however this alliance only deals with their mutual problems with the Swedes. The Deluge is still going on between Poland, Russia, The Cossacks (located in The Ukraine), Sweden, Brandenburg and the Crimean Tartars. Even thought the Russians were still at war with Sweden, the Russian were also enemies of Poland.



    Tasks for this turn:
    1. first choose a faction to play as (examples: Denmark, England, France, HRE, Netherlands, Ottoman empire, Papacy, Poland, Prussia, Russia, Spain, Sweden). After choosing faction, make a post in this thread to reserve that faction. The first who posts that he wants a certain faction gets that faction.

    2. make some research about your faction. This information will be available to all players, and is later to be used to plan your strategies. The knowledge about what happened after 1660 is supposed to be used to better understand the present situation in 1660, not to be abused as hindsight - I'll deliberately lay out the story in a way that prevents hindsight that couldn't have been known at the time from having any effect (after the first chapters it'll become clear what I mean by this). Things to research:
    a. name of your leader, and of the living heirs of your leader
    b. your current alliances in 1660. Look at which alliances were broken in the coming 50 years and why, to try and find information about the nature and strength of the alliances at this time
    c. current pacts/leagues (with pact I mean a bunch of nations all in alliance with each others, the pacts must also be public whereas alliances can be of a more secret character)
    d. current wars that your nation is engaged in
    e. regions that historically rebelled against your nation during the period 1660 to around 1700, and why. Did any of the rebellions happen at critical times during wars with outside nations, or did the rebellions for other reasons have greater effect than their military strength alone would imply?
    f. a list of the major military campaigns, crucial economical conflicts and other major events during the period 1660to around 1700for your nation
    g. in 1660, how is your army organized? how many men are available through conscription? how many men constitute a standing army? what equipment and training have they got? how is the quality of the artillery? and how did these things change in the coming 50 years?
    h. how well is your nation doing economically? are you in debt or is the economy flourishing? which are the key strategic locations that gives you income? tax, trade routes/tolls, farming or industries?
    i. which countries are your major trading partners at this time and what products do they buy/sell from/to you?
    j. how centralized is rule? what is your role as leader? military defender of your people? reformer? if your rule isn't centralized, is local unhappiness most directed towards you or the local rulers?
    k. what is your leader's religion? what is the stance of different religions in your nation - acceptance, tolerance, non-tolerance or persecution?
    l. what's the social situation for farmers, workers etc.? are they in a position to rebel over their social situations?
    m. are there any provinces of your nation that are eager to break off and form an own country? i.e. Portugal for Spain etc.



    Brandenburg - Ichigo
    Denmark - Played by Me
    England - Ignoramus
    France - Warluster
    HRE and Austria - Played By Me
    Netherlands - Draconian
    Ottoman Empire - Played By Me
    Poland- King Jan III Sobieski
    Russia-Northnovas

    Papacy - kamikhaan
    Spain - Garcilaso de la Vega el Inca Sweden - Julian the apostate
    Swiss Conferdation-Bopa The Magyar
    Transylvania - Waldinger Venice – Played By Me




    RULES/INFO ABOUT HOW THE INTERACTIVE WORKS

    - Your objectives: the objective is to achieve as much as possible in all these fields: conquest of provinces, conquest of strategic positions, strengthening the economy and controlling trade, having an appearance of strength and determination to outside threats by successfully defending and counter-attacking aggressors, have a good diplomatic rumor, and help spread whatever religion you choose. All these factors will be added together and the factions which achieved most in all these aspects will be winners by the end of the game.

    - First turn - in the prologue turn you'll not make any decisions but only do research about your faction.

    - How to play - every turn, I'll list questions about the most relevant matters for the player to decide about. However, each turn it's also possible to decide about things that aren't listed under that turn. Examples of things that you can decide are listed here for reference during the game:
    * thing made publicly in this thread:
    a. declaring war
    b. hiring mercenaries
    c. propaganda - if your nation wants to use propaganda actions it's posted as a public proclamation in the public thread. This can also be a general call for, say "the Catholic cause" etc. but also actions for your own population. Normal actions that aren't explicit propaganda can also have propaganda effects.
    d. choosing stance on religion, and the leader's religion - this will affect relations with the pope, relations with other countries, relations with local rulers etc.
    * things made by sending a PM to me that turn (sometimes this information risks to leak out to the public forum):
    e. reorganizing your army - this is made by PM, but info will leak out
    f. diplomatic discussions - it'll always leak out that a meeting has taken place, but very seldom what was said during the meeting, unless the two parts wish to make an official proclamation as result of the meeting. Because some of the diplomatic correspondence can leak out, try to make the PMs with historical phrasing, and it's also a good reason to, even if you're planning on backstabbing, not expressing such things too explicitly in the PMs... The diplomatic discussion in a turn may only be carried out as a series of max 3 PMs, i.e. 1. offer, 2. counter-offer/accept/decline, 3. accept/decline/counter-offer to consider for next turn/suggest discussions continue next turn. The reason for this rule is to make the discussion fast enough to not delay chapters, but also to simulate some of the difficulties of diplomatic discussion and not make the diplomacy an overly effective tool. The PMs from the correspondence should be sent to me by PM each turn so I know which deals took place so I can determine the outcome of the turn.
    g. choosing where to launch offensives and which tactics and key targets to use - you're allowed make very complex strategies with conditional plans and diversions etc. Just remember it must be logistically feasible within the length of the chapter. Also remember that pushing soldiers too hard can result in undisciplined behavior, mutiny and desertion etc.
    h. starting war without formal declaration
    i. determining what to do about rebels - you decide which and how many troops, what tactics they are to use etc. I'll ask more specific questions and give the suitable player options for how to act when a rebellion takes place
    j. choosing whether to use your own leader in combat - using the leader in combat can boost morale, but also keeps him away from home which may be tempting to some rebels, and it also puts him at the risk of dying in action. If the leader has gone to the front, the other nations will know it before long through hints in the public thread (this thread).
    * other decisions:
    k. you can decide about almost anything you can think of that isn't very historically unlikely, say send away mercenaries without pay, choose whether to kill prisoners of war or not, etc. etc. Those decisions can be sent to me by PM. Bear in mind that every character affected by your decisions has some form of power which he can use against you.

    L. You will have X amount of money at your disposel to build building,get new troops/mercenies and such. But Use it wisely.I will calculate how how much each country gets based on it sizes.







    I will deidce on how much money each country gets each year. It will be in your decsions I will PM to you (or post here, whatever I feel like doing)


    You May only Retruct Mercs One (1) time every 3 turns, maxmium of 2,500 every 3 turns. You May Retrucit Reuglar troops 2 turns straight, maxmium of 8,000 each turn (inftray,cavalary, up to you), then after that, you can only retrucit Regular soliders Every 3 Turns also, maxmium of what I will decide. You may Draft People, but remember, if you draft to many, to often, your people might Rebel.


    You May Be:

    Churchs/Temples/Mosques=-Keep People Happy. Raises Morlae. Cost 1000 to build.
    Upgrade Town Foricotians- helps keep towns safe, cost 5,000-15,000 to upgrade, depending on how much you upgrade.
    Cannon/Gun Mills- You are able to make cannons and Muskets here. Cost 10,000 to build.

    Ships (can carry 150 men each): 100 each, upkeep is 200.

    - NOTE! My PM box is of limited size so please try to stuff all the decisions that need to be sent to me by PM into a single PM if possible.


    http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1600.htm


    Map of 1600



    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....rope-1660.html


    Map of 1660


    The Game starts in 1660 and ends in 1700. :-)


    With Rodion permssion, I am using his rules and such, since I think they are better then what I first came up with. Thank you Rodion!
    Last edited by ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88; 12-09-2007 at 18:00. Reason: Updating Rules

  2. #2

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I shall claim Poland for myself, if possible, and take on the persona of Jan II Casmir, King of Poland, ArchDuke of Lithuania and Lord of the Eastern Realms... if that's OK!!!


  3. #3

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Hmmm... I was going to pick Russia or France, but since I'm a power-hungry person so to speak, I like to pick Austria/HRE since they look big,please
    Last edited by MaddenKhan2; 11-15-2007 at 17:54.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I'll take sweeden,
    one question though? Is poland going to be in any way weaken by the commonwealth's requirement that any action be unanimous?
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  5. #5
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    It is a coomon myth, but far from reality - anyone could disagree, but that didn't matter as long as the veto wasn't supported by some really powerful faction.


    I am not going to play - I have just asked the direct question - besides I already answered some questions about Poland and the entire region coming from the person who started this thread.

    That will be all, cheers !

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach
    It is a coomon myth, but far from reality - anyone could disagree, but that didn't matter as long as the veto wasn't supported by some really powerful faction.


    I am not going to play - I have just asked the direct question - besides I already answered some questions about Poland and the entire region coming from the person who started this thread.

    That will be all, cheers !

    Thank you for the information Cegorach. Will make Chapter 1 and future ones go much easier


    Will Update faction list now.

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    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Hmm... I think I'll try my hand at the Papacy.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Brandenburg
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

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    Prince of Maldonia Member Toby and Kiki Champion, Goo Slasher Champion, Frogger Champion woad&fangs's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    If Ichi is going to be mini-Germany than I'm going to be mini-Italy.

    Venice for me please
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    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  11. #11
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Interesting. Let's see if the HRE and Russia have another internal meltdown. How can a player be the Papacy?


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  12. #12
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Interesting. Let's see if the HRE and Russia have another internal meltdown. How can a player be the Papacy?
    I'll update the rules, since I have some new ideas to add in. Papacy I will explain tomarrow (Friday), I need a nap. (you taking Russia Vladimir?)



    FYI, Good Map Ichi!

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    The Papacy has land across the middle of Italy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  14. #14
    A Confused Asian Member Ayachuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Yeah, the perfect chance to piss off the English, French, and Spaniards/Austrians in one sitting.
    Put me down as the Dutch.

    Oh, and what about the Comtat Venaissin? The Pope also had a patch of land in Avignon and its surrounding areas.
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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    The Pope does have land,(like Ichi and Drac so kindly explained for me :-) )

    He would be able to raise a army of course, because the Papal Guard he already has.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Still some of the big nations left everyone

  17. #17

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I'll take England.

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  18. #18
    Still warlusting... Member Warluster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Seeing as England is claimed, I will take France please.

  19. #19
    Still warlusting... Member Warluster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Here is come Research I have collected for France.

    House of Bourbon.

    Titles claimed by King: Duke of Bourbon, King of France, King of Navarre, Duke of Parma, Duke of Seville, Grand DUke of Luxembourg, King of the Two Sicilies, King of Spain (??? I don't really get that part though, same as King of Two Sicilies)

    By the looks of it Spain was a puppet state of France, seeing as the Duke of Anjou, was adopted by the King of Spain, and the Spanish King died so that means the HOuse of Bourbon claims both Spain and France.

    France is led by Louis XIV, married to Maria Theresa.

    Peace was fragile, and war broke out again between France and the Dutch Republic in the Franco-Dutch War (1672-1678). Louis XIV asked for the Dutch Republic to resume war against the Spanish Netherlands, but the republic refused. France attacked the Dutch Republic and was joined by England in this conflict. Through targeted inundations of polders by breaking dykes, the French invasion of the Dutch Republic was brought to a halt. The Dutch Admiral Michiel de Ruyter inflicted a few strategic defeats on the Anglo-French naval alliance and forced England to retire from the war in 1674. Because the Netherlands could not resist eternally, it agreed to peace in the Treaties of Nijmegen, according to which France would annex France-Comté and acquired further concessions in the Spanish Netherlands. On 6 May 1682, the royal court moved to the Palace of Versailles, which Louis XIV had greatly expanded. Peace, once again, did not last, and war between France and Spain resumed once again. The War of the Reunions broke out (1683-1684), and once again Spain, with its ally the Holy Roman Empire, was easily defeated. Meanwhile, in October 1685 Louis signed the Edict of Fontainebleau ordering the destruction of all Protestant churches and schools in France. Its immediate consequence was a large Protestant exodus from France.
    France is at Peace with all, Alliance with Spain, In Personal union with the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Is next in line to the Throne of Spain. there have been rebellions no where and the populace is happy with Louis XIV.

    France has a very good Infantry and Cav system, some of the best in Europe. Though I know at this time KingWarman, that there was NO Artillery Units in exsistence, these only being established in war then dissolved afterwards.

    France trades (MAJOR) with Holland, Spain, England, Austria, Denmark.

    Louis has styled himself the Sun King, and is a Ambitious ruler, amd the longest serving, the poulace like him. France is on equal par econimc wise, still recovering from the Thirty Year War.

    France would soon be involved into another war, the War of the Grand Alliance. This time the theatre was not only in Europe but also in North America. Although the war was long and difficult (it was also called the Nine Years War), its results were inconclusive. The Treaty of Ryswick in 1697 confirmed French sovereignty over Alsace, yet rejected its claims to Luxembourg. Louis also had to evacuate Catalonia and the Palatinate. This peace was considered a truce by all sides, thus war was to start again. In 1701 the War of the Spanish Succession began. The Bourbon Philip of Anjou was designated heir to the throne of Spain. The Habsburg Emperor Leopold opposed a Bourbon succession, because of the power that such a succession would bring to the Bourbon rulers of France, and claimed the Spanish thrones for himself. England and the Dutch Republic joined Leopold against Louis XIV and Philip of Anjou. The allied forces were led by John Churchill and by Prince Eugene of Savoy. They inflicted a few resounding defeats to the French army; the Battle of Blenheim in 1704 was the first major land battle lost by France since its victory at Rocroi in 1643. Yet, after the extremely bloody battles of Ramillies and Malplaquet, Pyrrhic victories for the allies, they had lost too many men to continue the war. Led by Villars, the French forces recovered much of the lost ground in battles such as Denain. Finally, a compromise was achieved with the Ultrecht in 1713. Philip of Anjou was confirmed as Philip V, king of Spain, and Emperor Leopold did not get the throne, but Philip V was barred from inheriting France
    Update when I get more.

  20. #20
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Good Information Warluster



    Wednesday is when I might close off resigiation for the factions, because I like to get started on Writing Chapter 1 (over Thanksgiving break )






    I been thinking about how much retruciting Normal Troops and Mercs will cost, I will post it later when I make the final decsion on the cost and such.

  21. #21

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Still Looking for my stuff, don't worry

  22. #22
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    By the looks of it Spain was a puppet state of France, seeing as the Duke of Anjou, was adopted by the King of Spain, and the Spanish King died so that means the HOuse of Bourbon claims both Spain and France.
    After Louis XIV's father-in-law and uncle, Philip IV of Spain, died in 1665, Philip IV's son (by his second wife) became Charles II of Spain.
    Your five years off as I understand it.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    I found Leopold I is the Leader of Austria/HRE. I also found out our coffins been having touble keeping money in it. I also read in a link someone gave Warman8 in his Austrian thread (I like reading history stuff you see) and it said Leopold Raised a 100,000 man force, but doesn't say when. I also read that after the Thiry year War, Austria had a 24,500 man force, but I swore it was bigger in 1660.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Austria had a standing army of 24500 I believe, without of course militia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  25. #25
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichigo
    Austria had a standing army of 24500 I believe, without of course militia.

    Argeed Ichi. I read on the SPanish war Site I found (check Spanish IH thread for it), that it said the same thing (you check same site Madden?).

  26. #26

    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Someone has to take the Ottoman and Russian Empires...we can't let Warman88 take them by default.

  27. #27
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Okay, I have been lurking through this thread and reading the other IH for awhile and this looks interesting to be involved in, so I will sign up for Russia and of the dual Tsars I will take Peter the Great.
    I got a lot of the political stuff reading Peter's bio is there any other sources recommended for the military history of country?

  28. #28
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    http://www.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/351/351-15.htm


    just keep clicking the arrow thing at the bottom and after a few slides, it takes you to a Peter the Great page, and some nice info at the time.



    Thanks for taking Russia

    Will be fun, but kinda hard I think.

  29. #29
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Hmm, just noticed something in the rules. It stated that different kingdoms get different amounts they can spend depending on the size of their territory. Considering its rather unique disposition, does the Papacy get more than would other, similary-sized territories?
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  30. #30
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17 Centruy IH

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikhaan
    Hmm, just noticed something in the rules. It stated that different kingdoms get different amounts they can spend depending on the size of their territory. Considering its rather unique disposition, does the Papacy get more than would other, similary-sized territories?

    I would say yes, and if you influence you people alot to, you could get more money also.


    But let me finaizlie it, of course . Rules been updated now also

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