RTW - Persian Invasion

[Spartan198]

edit: Or would Sicyon not belong to Corinth? What say you Spartan?

Put it this way ~
Athens = Home of philosophy
Sikyon = Home of drama and tragedy

Edit: Now that I look back, this answer had nothing to do with your question, did it?

[comrade_general]

What faction would Sikyon belong to at this time in history?

[Spartan198]

I'll have to do some research into that.

Edit: According to this, it was apparently under Spartan control (scroll down to The Battle of Thyreas).
I'll see what else I can dig up after while.

[comrade_general]

From what I've recently read it could go to Sparta or Corinth. I would just say it can go to Corinth since they are in the same area.

edit: What say you about me changing Aigio to Patras?

[Spartan198]

From what I've recently read it could go to Sparta or Corinth. I would just say it can go to Corinth since they are in the same area.

I would say either Sparta or Corinth, yeah.

edit: What say you about me changing Aigio to Patras?

Aigio may be too far north, I think, but I'll have to check for sure.


After looking over the map, here's right off the top of my head:
1. I'd rather not do too much crowding, but we could easily fit two more settlements on Cyprus.
2. There's plenty of room for a second settlement on Crete.
3. We could place Demitrios directly east of Larissa, on the coast.
4. Euboea (that island off the eastern coast of Attica) could also fit a second settlement.
5. This I'll have to look into, but I don't think Jerusalem was a very important city at that time.

When's the start date of the campaign? 480 BC like it's already set to?

[comrade_general]

The Aigio thing isn't a big deal, it could stay the same.

1. Sure, name a couple settlements and I'll put them in, or only one of them.
2. Again name a settlement and where it is. (maps would be nice if possible)
3. I can add Demitrios, what region would that be in?
4. Possibly
5. The place has been there forever so its just kind of general ya know? If there is something more important in that area I can easily change it.

Yeah probably 480 BC because I don't want to bother with the Ionian Revolt, I'd rather it just start with Persia on the warpath to Greece.

Thanks for the help, Spartan.

[Darkvicer98]

Do you mind if i add it to my Signature as well?

Have you got a bigger picture of the Aegean? You could add a settlement off the coast of Troezen on the middle island called Delos. This was the island where the Delian League met after the Persian wars. The group of Islands are called the Cyclades.

[Spartan198]

Here, this might help. I don't know the exact time period it reflects, but it's all I've got at the moment.



Edit: And I found this site. It has a few maps that reflect the period between 500 and 450 BC.

I'm still trying to find out what region Demetrios is located in, but everything so far points to Thessaly. Larissa would be better for said province, though, due to its location in the center of it.

And I'll search out some cities for those new settlement locales.

2nd Edit: You remember Kydonia, the original vanilla settlement on Crete, and where it was? It can be used as the second Cretan city opposite Knossos. This map from the above site shows it.

[Spartan198]

I just looked at your screenshots at ModDB, and I thought I'd let you know, just in case you didn't, that overhand spear animations work much better without the phalanx ability. Hoplites will still raise their spears and shields when an enemy charges them (and they do it automatically, too, so no need to run to the unit to hit the phalanx button), and tweaks to the unit spacing can make them stand shield-to-shield.

Edit: Oh, and renaming Aigio to Patras would be acceptable, if you wish to do so. The location would be dead on, as far as I can tell from the maps I've seen.

[comrade_general]

@Darkvicer98 - absolutely go ahead and use it.

@Spartan

Demetrios could also be in Thessaly, I already have more than one city per province in other areas. I'll add Kydonia later today. As for the hoplites, our models are holding the spears with point facing up, so if they fought with them not in phalanx mode they would be holding the spears backwards. Its just a matter of shortening the pike they hold in phalanx mode, the short_pike attribute just doesnt work right.

edit: The hoplites are one of the biggest problems right now. Since its not on BI we dont have shield wall, plus with the spears backwards that wouldn't help either since every model would have to be changed.

[Spartan198]

I've done my own experiments in the past with the overhand hoplite animations (and even actually put them in the PI beta when I had it installed a while back), and I've noticed that they seem to work better without any "_pike" attributes, whatsoever.

Will custom battles function on that file you sent me? I've got the overhand animation data files in my downloads, so if custom battles will work, I can tinker around and see what kinds of results I can get, because I know I had both the General's Guard hoplites and the Athenian warrior women functioning as superbly as XGM's own hoplite units.

[comrade_general]

Indeed, I also found that for regular hoplites no _pike function works. The custom battles should work so please feel free to tinker all you like. You understand what how I want the hoplites to function? Overhand held spears about 9 feet long while holding a tight shield wall formation. I don't really want the hoplites breaking formation and fighting man to man on a whim.

[Spartan198]

I can't do any altering of the skins and models themselves, but I'm guessing we're both wanting a similar look and feel to what XGM has (minus shield_wall).

I'll have to consult the EDU Guide here at the .Org to touch up on unit spacing, but, like I said in my last post, I had both the General's Guard and the Athenian warrior women in shoulder-to-shoulder, shield-to-shield formation with spears over their heads and all pointed forward (the shield_wall attribute isn't necessary to achieve this, because, for one, I know EB has hoplites in tightly-packed formations like that without the need for it).

[comrade_general]

Is that using phalanx formation? Because without it they will just break formation.

[Spartan198]

In XGM or EB? EB hoplites don't use any kind of special ability at all, they're only spaced to stand close enough together that their shields interlock when they raise them. And in XGM, they use shield_wall.
But in both cases, they'll break formation once they make contact with the enemy, anyway.
If I could figure out how to take screenshots, I'd show you what I mean, but unfortunately I don't know how.


We also need to try to find an eastern historian to handle looking over the eastern half of the map. My knowledge doesn't stretch very deep into the east.

[comrade_general]

The trouble is each hoplite model will have to have its spear reversed so when they hold it over their heads the point is in front. The modeller could do that, except some hoplites are using models from the alexander add-on, which don't open in 3dsmax for some reason. If it came down to it we could replace those hoplites with models that can be edited.

As for an eastern guy, sure, the more opinions and info we have the better. You can find a lot of maps and stuff of the east if you look, though.

[Spartan198]

The trouble is each hoplite model will have to have its spear reversed so when they hold it over their heads the point is in front. The modeller could do that, except some hoplites are using models from the alexander add-on, which don't open in 3dsmax for some reason. If it came down to it we could replace those hoplites with models that can be edited.

As for an eastern guy, sure, the more opinions and info we have the better. You can find a lot of maps and stuff of the east if you look, though.

Yeah, true. But a specialist would still be a big help. That way, research can be divided between two people with differing areas of influence.

[comrade_general]

If I could figure out how to take screenshots, I'd show you what I mean, but unfortunately I don't know how.

Simply press the print screen button (PrtSc), close RTW, open paint (or other image editor) and paste.

[Spartan198]

Simply press the print screen button (PrtSc), close RTW, open paint (or other image editor) and paste.

Do you mean close RTW as in shut the program down, or is there some way to minimize it?
Escape (Esc) doesn't do it.

BTW, I'm having some personal issues, so I haven't looked at that map yet, but I will.

Edit: A question: Is the two settlements per province thing gonna be a final addition, or have you just not finished naming the provinces?

2nd Edit: We could push the start date back to 490, that way we can incorporate Darius I's earlier invasions of Eretria and Attica (and we still wouldn't need to deal with the Ionian Revolt outside of maybe an event card at the start of the campaign), seeing as they were a huge inspiration for Xerxes I's own invasion ten years later.
What do you think?

[Darkvicer98]

[QUOTE=Spartan198;1978158]Do you mean close RTW as in shut the program down, or is there some way to minimize it?
Escape (Esc) doesn't do it.QUOTE]
Ctrl+Esc and then your back on desktop.

[Spartan198]

Thanks, Dark.

[Spartan198]

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Greco-Persian Wars. It's not the most historically reliable source of info out there, but I'm sure at least some of the info there is correct.

Edit: Slapped myself for double-posting.

[comrade_general]

Edit: A question: Is the two settlements per province thing gonna be a final addition, or have you just not finished naming the provinces?

2nd Edit: We could push the start date back to 490, that way we can incorporate Darius I's earlier invasions of Eretria and Attica (and we still wouldn't need to deal with the Ionian Revolt outside of maybe an event card at the start of the campaign), seeing as they were a huge inspiration for Xerxes I's own invasion ten years later.
What do you think?

I'm not very concerned about region names, I just went with the general region that the city is in. The city name itself is more important in my opinion, but ofcourse, it is all easy to change.

490BC could work just fine, if you could dig up some info about where characters and their armies should start out on the map that would be great. We still have plenty to do before we think about the end piece though.

[ThePianist]

Please get this added in TWC as well
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=214

Map looks great (westernmost Greece, easternmost Hindu-Kush). Another original strategic map, that doesn't have British Isles on the northwestern corner, Sahara on the southwestern corner, Arabia on the southeastern corner, Italy/Balkans in the center of the map, etc.

And it's great that mods are being made for Alexander, when the only one I've heard about is Megas Alexandros. ALX.exe is a much better platform for gaming and it's great that you are making a mod on that.

Look forward to this mod very much, and please add it to the TWC mod forums as well. That way all the mods in development can be seen in TWC as well as Totalwar.org and there are more people to help. I would love to help with Persian Invasion.

[comrade_general]

Please get this added in TWC as well
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=214

Map looks great (westernmost Greece, easternmost Hindu-Kush). Another original strategic map, that doesn't have British Isles on the northwestern corner, Sahara on the southwestern corner, Arabia on the southeastern corner, Italy/Balkans in the center of the map, etc.

And it's great that mods are being made for Alexander, when the only one I've heard about is Megas Alexandros. ALX.exe is a much better platform for gaming and it's great that you are making a mod on that.

Look forward to this mod very much, and please add it to the TWC mod forums as well. That way all the mods in development can be seen in TWC as well as Totalwar.org and there are more people to help. I would love to help with Persian Invasion.

Thanks ThePianist, I'll get a forum up at TWC when I get the chance. Sorry to bust your bubble but this mod isn't on the ALX.exe platform anymore, we wanted to aim for a larger audience since a lot of people don't have the Alexander add-on, so it is now on RTW 1.5. What area of modding do you do?

[Spartan198]

Ditto. We can use the help, especially since development of WotD seems to be picking up and I've gotta split my time (don't worry, Comrade, I'm sticking with you here. ).
What can you do for us?

Also, Comrade, have you considered asking Tosa for a development forum? Having more than one thread to discuss things in would be helpful.

[comrade_general]

I can make one here or at TWC. I don't really want to maintain two forums. So, here or there?

[Spartan198]

I can make one here or at TWC. I don't really want to maintain two forums. So, here or there?

I'm having difficulty accessing the .Org (IP address problems), so I'd suggest TWC.

[ThePianist]

Well, since it already started here, let's keep it here. I was suggesting TWC only for a second forum to spread maximum word, not for moving the forum from here to there.
I actually don't know how to mod yet. When I do learn I'll be able to help. My most extensive modding experience happened just yesterday, when I successfully modified the range of the Bucellarii in RTW:BI, and added some bucellarii to a campaign's starting army.
One thing I can help doing is historical research on units and faction descriptions, etc.

[comrade_general]

I put in a request at TWC late last night