Will You Buy a SecuRomed Empire?

[rajpoot]

This is not a technical thread, I know, but just out of curosity, what is ring zero?

[thebigbossnahhh]

Never knew that SecuROM conflicts with other programmes.

Thing is it should provide software in the game to easily remove SecuROM or any other Copyright Protection software.
It should also Notify through the Terms of Agreement that this Software contains Third Party anti-Piracy Software.

I also believe we have a right to a Back up copy after the Warranty runs out.
They should really learn from the Music Industry that their tactics of attacking the Downloader, the shut down of P2P and Bit Torrents as well as the recent 3 Strikes your Out Laws that have come into play will not stop people downloading and it can never be enforced as were talking about tracking the actions of millions of people.
That feels a bit Big Brother to me. SecuROM isn't exactly spyware reporting all our whereabouts but if they can add this to your computer then what's stopping them from adding spyware in the future?



I have an Idea..

Maybe the solution is in what SavetheInternet.com are doing when challenging Verizon and AT&T?

Maybe someone can start an online activist Site for Gamers and protest what Sega and other software companies are doing and what this malware does?
There would be a LARGE Community out there that if they saw what was in their game would gather and hurt these Security firms into ceasing their actions, maybe even change the Laws in your Country to stop this in future?

[rajpoot]

Great idea, but what larger communities for the TW than com and org........? If they are not hearing us here, well...........

[thebigbossnahhh]

Great idea, but what larger communities for the TW than com and org........? If they are not hearing us here, well...........

That's the Beauty of Cyber Activism; Not everyone against Spyware and Malware is a Total War Fan, but this Spyware problem is the problem of every Game Genre.
from Shoot Em Up to RPG, Thinky Game to Sports Game.

How many Gamers are there in the World?

How many of them know their Game contains Software like SecuROM?


There could be a mass outcry, one large enough to scare the game industries into ceasing their Copyright Protection.
If done right can hit them in their pocket where it hurts.

[ArtistofWarfare]

There's news this week that Windows Vista installs with SecuRom ON it.

This is why I'm just not going to worry about it. If the scenario is: It's on there. It's not conflicting with anything. It takes it virtually no space= I don't care.

This is just 2 pennies in the hat. Doesn't change my original opinion that "hiding" this program from the user should be a felony.

[TosaInu]

Vista installs SecuRom by default?

Not conflicting with anything? Not anything extra perhaps?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

That's the first I've heard of it. Link?

[rajpoot]

Vista has SecuRom??! All editions or just select few?

[Csargo]

A quick Google search offered nothing other than compatibility issues with some games. Nothing about Vista having SecuRom.

[eddy_purpus]

i dont know man .
is that star ..... malware bad for your computer ?
or why are youtelling that ? ( i dont know much about software ok)
hehehe

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

is that star ..... malware bad for your computer ?

StarForce is extremely bad for your computer, and should be removed ASAP.

SecuRom is not quite as dangerous, but there are still problems that can come around with it, some potentially serious. The potential invasion of privacy is a major concern for anti-SecuRom users.

[ratbarf]

Hmm, did anyone here know that Oblivion shipped with absolutely no software protection at all and was still one of the biggest selling games of 2006? (By the way I got that info from PC Gamer and they do indeed know their buisness.) The average Joe probably couldn't even copy a game to his friends, he might lend them the discs but then again, if you couldn't do multiple loads how the heck are you supposed to re install it once it crashes from some bug teh company let slide or a patch gone AWOL.

Companies need to realise that you don't need to copy protect your software nearly as much as they would like you too believe. Most people will go out and buy the game anyways, I personally lent Kingdoms to a friend of mine to try out, he liked and actually went and BOUGHT the game. Even though he wasn't going to previously.

PS: who has had problems playing lan useing the same copy? I play it all the time against my brother and have never had a problem.

[BetterDeadThanRed]

As far as I know, World in Conflict has secuROM on it and I honestly haven't seen anything change at all performance or otherwise. I may sound like a spokesman for the company, and while I certainly disagree with the motives, I don't see anything that will stop me from buying ETW when it comes out.

And to the people that are upset about the inclusion of the protection software, if you have bought more than 5 games over the past 3 years, chances are you have your own little secuROM hiding away on your task list. Not much you can do about it at this point.

[eddy_purpus]

Im undecided guys .
i dont know if i would buy the game when it comes out .
i had problems with kingdoms and now medieval 2
:P
because in august im getting a laptop to play pc games.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

As far as I know, World in Conflict has secuROM on it and I honestly haven't seen anything change at all performance or otherwise. I may sound like a spokesman for the company, and while I certainly disagree with the motives, I don't see anything that will stop me from buying ETW when it comes out.

A search of my computer for SecuROM reveals nothing, and I play WiC on a regular basis. I removed SecuROM once and rolled back the patch to 1.2.

[mitch23]

This is not a technical thread, I know, but just out of curosity, what is ring zero?

hi - sorry for the slow response, i was on holiday last week - but here's the definition as i understand it:

4 different processor privilege levels (also called rings) are available (0,1,2, & 3), ring 0 being the most privileged one and ring 3 the least privileged one. Kernels of operating systems run in ring 0 whereas users code runs in ring 3

[ArtistofWarfare]

Vista installs SecuRom by default?

Not conflicting with anything? Not anything extra perhaps?

Perhaps it was just another rumor...

I'll try to dig up the link on it...

I will say that after uninstalling Kingdoms a couple of weeks ago (because they patched Gold wrong and still to this day- Won't give technical support on the issue after almost a month of correspondence) I've done searches for all of the Securom files and nothing has come up. Further, there's no unaccounted for hard drive space taken up (wouldn't imagine their would be).

No change in performance either. Nothing.

So- Assumably I have Securom on my HDD right? I would never know it and apparently, neither would the computer.

As for a privacy concern- I don't quite understand what privacy we're talking about here. So Sega will know that I play World of Warcraft? I don't understand...

added w/ edit: I want to add here, right after I posted this: I went and did another regedit to look for Securom. I had previously removed all Sega/Medieval registries after uninstalling the game and manually deleting it's file from my C drive. Sure enough, a registry for "Securom" came up. I selected it, deleted the registry, and there were no problems. Rechecked for Securom on C drive and Registry- None found.

I then checked all of my running services- UAService7.exe not found, nor is ever running or scheduled to run. I'd imagine this means I got it.

How painful could that be for anyone to do?

p.s.- No HDD space change either. So obviously, it was taking up virtually no space. I think we're talking a few kb's.

Again- What's preventing anyone from doing this? (I know that's not the point here, the point is that it shouldn't be on there in first place. But still- Obviously it's nothing MAJOR, right?)

edit- I want to add this: A little research has given me reason to believe that deleting these registry keys (as well as never finding the UAService running. Ever. Even with Securom installed) was so easy and painless due to the fact that I was on Vista. Perhaps the administrator features and security of Vista prevents this from even being a security/resource threat in the first place? Cause i have got to be honest- When I do some digging, I can't find anyone who has Vista having any difficulties finding or removing Securom's registry file. It's all the people on XP. Hopefully someone with far more expertise than I could comment on these findings...

[TosaInu]

Hello ArtistofWarfare,

It would be painful to do for many. From experience: having some people unzip a file to a certain directory is already difficult. Editing the registry is a whole different story and I'ld hate to give a penny to every user that wrecks his system that way.

Securom preventing 16 bit code to execute is probably not an issue for most, but it's not nice. And more, what's next? It's an arms race against piracy and the customer is experiencing the trouble.

Securom probably only occupies a few kb, a droplet in the Atlantic. And while Securom is not a virus or a worm, those files are small too and can be removed.

There can be one application that seriously drops system performance, but tens, hundreds or even thousands of small ones have an effect too. A rock can break a camels back, several million straws too.

A little side-stepping perhaps: I made a dump of my registry a while back. It was around 100 mb. The system has to carry that all the time, and while it can, it will be faster when it's lots leaner. My system doesn't need to know where Minesweeper is. In the past I could install Shogun: Total War and then restore the system to the point where it was before installing it, to have a lean machine again. Now, I can't even play online, install patches or mods when I do that.

[Rick]

Forget about installing it on Vista. I tried. I called the Securom tech support, but nothing worked. Bottom line, I refused to by any game with Securom on it.

Good luck.

[katar]

i am saddened that they are using SecuRom as that means that i will NOT be buying any TW related games.

i don`t want pirated versions of any games but i refuse to have that junk on my computer.

[Gaius Terentius Varro]

For each one of us voting here there is 10000 that don't visit these forums and don't know about the securom issue. Sega/CA know this hence this poll is pointless. Answer: I won't buy another game from CA ever again, securom or not

[Quirinus]

I won't buy it, simply because that period in history doesn't fascinate me enough to want to consciously put spyware on my computer. Though if they ever release a R2TW, I suppose that might be another matter....... can't help it, the fact is that they make very good games.

Still praying that they follow Stardock's example, though.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Hello ArtistofWarfare,

It would be painful to do for many. From experience: having some people unzip a file to a certain directory is already difficult. Editing the registry is a whole different story and I'ld hate to give a penny to every user that wrecks his system that way.

Securom preventing 16 bit code to execute is probably not an issue for most, but it's not nice. And more, what's next? It's an arms race against piracy and the customer is experiencing the trouble.

Securom probably only occupies a few kb, a droplet in the Atlantic. And while Securom is not a virus or a worm, those files are small too and can be removed.

There can be one application that seriously drops system performance, but tens, hundreds or even thousands of small ones have an effect too. A rock can break a camels back, several million straws too.

A little side-stepping perhaps: I made a dump of my registry a while back. It was around 100 mb. The system has to carry that all the time, and while it can, it will be faster when it's lots leaner. My system doesn't need to know where Minesweeper is. In the past I could install Shogun: Total War and then restore the system to the point where it was before installing it, to have a lean machine again. Now, I can't even play online, install patches or mods when I do that.

Understand...

Hey, I'm by no means supporting it- I'm just trying to figure out it's true danger and the means to remove it myself.

That said, yeah as I've posted in this thread- It's definitely not something we should even be dealing with in the first place. Gone are the days of installing/uninstalling/reinstalling ...we now have to seriously research the contents of anything we install on our PC for fear of opening a can of worms like this.

It's a shame...

[TosaInu]

Hello ArtistofWarfare,

It's nice that it didn't cause problems for you.

[hellenes]

For each one of us voting here there is 10000 that don't visit these forums and don't know about the securom issue. Sega/CA know this hence this poll is pointless. Answer: I won't buy another game from CA ever again, securom or not

Dont confuse PC gamers with the console cattle....
Remember the AI bug that the 1.2 RTW patch created? If this was the case Activision would simply not give a rat's a*** about what the online community thinks....
The mere fact that the outrage gave birth to 1.3/1.5 patches destroys the hilarious myth of 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of TW gamers having access to internet and being informed....

[ArtistofWarfare]

Dont confuse PC gamers with the console cattle....
Remember the AI bug that the 1.2 RTW patch created? If this was the case Activision would simply not give a rat's a*** about what the online community thinks....
The mere fact that the outrage gave birth to 1.3/1.5 patches destroys the hilarious myth of 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of TW gamers having access to internet and being informed....

Relevant point...I guess lol.

It's true though. The fact however, that people had to go through what they did to get that 1.3/1.5 patching is just unacceptable.

We shouldn't have to beg and pull teeth to get customer support. I mean, is it an absolute tragedy that CA might have to pay a tech or dev overtime one weekend to work on something that they fudged in the first place?

How much could this cost them...a couple of hundred dollars? At most?

They just don't care...They think that extra $200 on the bottom line is actually important. As if they world circulates for CA to make money. For what? They already have plenty...grow up.

To think that people spend countless hours on forums BEGGING for support with something they've already paid for, simply so an executive at CA can buy a new pair of pants...is just absolutely disgusting. I'm beginning to think this franchise needs to die a quick and horribly painful death. It's just the only way...

[caravel]

Perhaps you now see why so many are opposed to securom and copy protection in general? The money wasted on this junk "technology" could be better spent providing better customer service and proper patching of their games.

My point is that it is evident where their priorities lie. At this moment in time CA seems to be about 50% marketing, 10% copy protection, 39% graphics and 1% on gameplay and AI.

Sadly after becoming established with the release of STW, the CA have, IMHO, quite simply ceased to innovate. The newer titles have been more of the same thing. M2TW was simply a glorified mod for RTW. It has most of the same problems that the earlier game had.

The TW genre has simply not come on and has not been refined. Graphically it has made advances, but that's it. The tactical battle engine has not become ultra realistic with realistic parameters and physics and the campaign map (whether you like it or not) is not anything new, but is simply a TBS tiled strategy map, much like that used in most other TBS games.

The last hope, for me and probably for quite a few others, is this game. I will be watching with interest and if this isn't it, then I will be giving up.

[Airfix]

I am very, very disappointed.
I own every TW-game and expansion, until:
M2TW was unplayable for month. An unfinished game.
And then: Kingdoms.
A game wich my anti-virus software classes as "rootkit".
Thanks to securom.
I will NOT buy E:TW if it contains something like securom.
Games like Sins of a Solar Empire show that an aggressive copy-protection is not needed.
I am a customer and not a thief.
Don´t treat me like one.

[DisruptorX]

Not only Sins of a Solar Empire, but Oblivion sold very well on the PC and doesn't even have a CD Key.

Some of you might have heard of the Mass Effect fiasco. EA rolled back the ridiculous draconian measures when people complained enough. That stuff would have been cracked within days, anyway. You can't stop piracy, successful PC developers have shown that the best way to combat it is making a product worth buying.

[Merchent]

Mass Effect still has SecuRom actaully, they even still have the 3 installs thing. They lied about removing it.