Choosing New Gaming PC- Guidance Please

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I need: Motherboard still- What about the 3rd one down...the Asus 750i? Why is it less than some of the 680's and 650's?

I'm not sure exactly, but I'd rather go with the nVidia nForce 680i or eVGA 780i.

[ArtistofWarfare]

they're not options...

Same happened with RAM- I wanted 3 gigs...Turns out I get a good deal on 4gigs (1024x4 Corsair DDR2-800) but the only options were the same in the 2 gig or up to the 4 gig....or I could go with the Raptor but it pushes me over budget. My current build is at $1,678 with shipping and handling...this is about as high as I can go. Period heh.

That's why I'm throwing up the link...it's easier if you know what I have to choose from.

Just like that PSU- It's not an option in the package...but a comparable 650w is...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

they're not options...

I saw them both on the last configuration PC you showed.

[ArtistofWarfare]

I saw them both on the last configuration PC you showed.

Sorry...lack of sleep.

Yeah, I see them, and they're better...but it pushes me over budget. It's at least $94 more.

Just saying...due to LEN mentioning how important a motherboard is...what would you go to after those? Again, 3rd one down is ideal pricing...

I'm still dazzled by how a dual 8600 GT costs less than a single 8800 GT...

How much better could an 88 be than an 86? heh...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Just saying...due to LEN mentioning how important a motherboard is...what would you go to after those? Again, 3rd one down is ideal pricing...

Didn't really give the next one much thought. I suppose the ASUS one would be it, but again, a second opinion is good to have, especially in the area of motherboards.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Didn't really give the next one much thought. I suppose the ASUS one would be it, but again, a second opinion is good to have, especially in the area of motherboards.

Yeah, I'm pretty much just waiting for that second opinion on the motherboard and the dual graphics cards vs. single 8800 GT...then I'm about done.

In the meantime, I think you already answered this but I'd just like to clarify: If I do wind up getting dual graphics cards (2x8600GT for example), I would HAVE to get an SLI capable PSU correct? And this would leave me with no room to ever add a 3rd or 4th down the line correct?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

In the meantime, I think you already answered this but I'd just like to clarify: If I do wind up getting dual graphics cards (2x8600GT for example), I would HAVE to get an SLI capable PSU correct? And this would leave me with no room to ever add a 3rd or 4th down the line correct?

It depends on the power output of the PSU as compared to the power needed to run a graphics card. An SLI capable PSU is guaranteed to be able to run two cards, a Quad SLI guaranteed to run four. The main thing is the guarantee, IMO.

[ArtistofWarfare]

It depends on the power output of the PSU as compared to the power needed to run a graphics card. An SLI capable PSU is guaranteed to be able to run two cards, a Quad SLI guaranteed to run four. The main thing is the guarantee, IMO.

Agreed...That's what I want. If I buy an SLI, I want to know for sure that I can always pop in a second (or do it now) graphics card.

4 Cards is nothing I'll be dealing with any time soon and even when I do, I can just swap the PSU to a Quad...that's no problem.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

4 Cards is nothing I'll be dealing with any time soon and even when I do, I can just swap the PSU to a Quad...that's no problem.

AFAIK, there isn't even four card technology available yet, just three card.

[ArtistofWarfare]

AFAIK, there isn't even four card technology available yet, just three card.

Even better

For anyone: Onboard LAN Network- I need nothing more than this for cable broadband correct? I don't NEED to upgrade to say an Intel Pro or Killer K1 in order to use broadband do I?

for access, the options:

http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp/store/c...mid=119#header

This, the graphic card question and the motherboard...and we can close this thread finally heh.

[Gregoshi]

Artist, you might want to check on the reliability & reputation of ibuypower and cyberpower PCs before you buy. I can't remember where I saw it (here or elsewhere), but I do recall see many negative comments regarding cyberpower PC quality. ibuypower, might warrant a look too. I see their ads all the time in Games for Windows magazine and the low prices, which always makes me wonder. Maybe they make a good product, but I'd check it out first.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Artist, you might want to check on the reliability & reputation of ibuypower and cyberpower PCs before you buy. I can't remember where I saw it (here or elsewhere), but I do recall see many negative comments regarding cyberpower PC quality. ibuypower, might warrant a look too. I see their ads all the time in Games for Windows magazine and the low prices, which always makes me wonder. Maybe they make a good product, but I'd check it out first.

Thank you for the heads up...

It's Cyberpower that is notoriously bad...

Of course IbuyPower doesn't have a perfect track record itself, but it seems to fall well within the "reputable" category. Cyberpower did not seem to and therefore, despite their ridiculously low prices, I personally felt pretty darn sure that something would go wrong. At least one thing.

As said, I had 2 people in person today tell me they used IbuyPower and it worked out fine. Further, there overall scores are ...I don't know...on average just about a 7.8/10 which is not bad at all on an open response like that.

Cyberpower fell into the 4.5/10 on average...

I'll mention, IbuyPower is only slightly more expensive across the board (than Cyberpower)...and offers a broader spectrum of options in the high grade categories of hardware.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Even better

For anyone: Onboard LAN Network- I need nothing more than this for cable broadband correct? I don't NEED to upgrade to say an Intel Pro or Killer K1 in order to use broadband do I?

for access, the options:

http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp/store/c...mid=119#header

This, the graphic card question and the motherboard...and we can close this thread finally heh.

Just to keep this organized-

1) Basically pick an ideal motherboard from those options that does not radically differ in price from the 3rd or 6th one down (on the list of motherboard options).

2) Dual 8600 GT nvidia's cost less than a single 8800 GT? Why? What would be a better performance?

3) Do I need anything more than an onboard LAN network to hook up my cable broadband modem to this?

Thanks again guys...This is obviously a fun process but I kind of want it in my hands at this point ya know?

The guys over at the MTW forums would kill me, but obviously I'll need to fire up M2TW: Kingdoms and jack things up as soon as the power cord hits the wall...

That brings us to the final (I mean it) question:

- I'm going with the 32-bit Vista Home Premium (could I slide with the basic?). What do I buy- M2TW kingdoms and WOW in the XP edition? There is no Vista edition is there...?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

- I'm going with the 32-bit Vista Home Premium (could I slide with the basic?). What do I buy- M2TW kingdoms and WOW in the XP edition? There is no Vista edition is there...?

I would strongly recommend going with 64-bit if you're getting Vista, so you can upgrade RAM later. It seems to me like 32-bit Vista has the worst of both worlds - RAM limitation of XP with terrible compatibility and system hogging of Vista.

That being said, M2TW Kingdoms and WOW both should work quite well with Vista.

[ArtistofWarfare]

1-

7- Vista is a HEAVY load on your computer. Stay away as long as you plan to have less than 2 GB of RAMs and a Core 2 Duo CPU. The use of having Vista on your machine is the availability of DirectX 10 of course. And I guess they -geeks that is, not Microsoft- still couldn't port DirectX 10 to XP. If you want to enjoy Dx10 graphics provided you have a rock solid rig, go with Vista. But if you're like "I can wait for now. Total War series and WoW will keep me happy" then why bother with putting a great load on your PC? Get XP then.

However assuming that I were you, I'd get Vista if I had a monstrous machine (Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 8xxx series gfx card). XP has 1-2 years of lifetime the most when it comes to gaming.

32bit is the standard of nearly all the programs on the market. 64bit is newer and faster if run on a 64bit OS and 64bit supporting hardware. However, and I don't know why, 64bit couldn't take the step to be the new standard of programs. I guess it's due to the overcrowding in the computing tech sector. No one looks to care about what 64bit would bring while a 8800 GTX can make your jaw drop or Quad Core CPU can rocket you up. IT experts among us are sure to have a more reliable reasoning about this.

Get 32bit OS, to be precise.

Hope this helps.

This is why I was thinking a 32...

Now I'm confused

I'm already getting 4 gigs of RAM, if this effects things at all...

added w/edit: I'm actually starting to switch to this: http://www.vigorgaming.com/product/c...taforcene.html

Either that or the Hornet...

Much more reputable company (9.8 or so on average) and it's not just parts thrown together. It's their base models with some customization. But specifically for gaming. This obviously makes things a bit easier for now.

What do you guys think of these? (They list their PSU's as "SLI Ready". I'm assuming this is the same as SLI certified and just "SLI" PSU's? It's got space for 2 graphics cards?

You know what- I think I asked this but this would kind of solve the graphics card issue for now with this new model: Nvidia 9600 GT 700mhz...this is cheaper than a 8800GT 660mhz...both 512mb . Which is better?

Relating to the beginning of this post: I see that Vista apparently won't use all 4 Gigs of Ram? Why and is it still worth it to get 4 gigs over 2?

This really is about it, as I'm pretty set on this Hornet model at this point...

[ArtistofWarfare]

This should make things MUCH easier. This site actually lets me copy/paste a printable version of my overview.

I believe I can get these specs on the Hornet, or something just under it...depending upon the "free shipping" offer and how it effects the overall price. I'd like it here this weekend or Monday at the latest. Ordering tomorrow.

SPECIAL PROMOTION Free Shipping

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6750 at 2.67GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 4M Cache

RIG Vigor Cooler Master CM 690 Screwless Chassis

RIG COLOR Black

RIG STYLE None.

RIG COOLING Vigor Cool BlastTM Cooling System with Triple 120MM Case Fan

RIG POWER Cooler Master Real Power Pro nVidia-SLI Ready 550Watt Power Supply

RIG DIMENSIONS 8.39" Width X 20.65" Depth X 18.98" Height.

MB CORE LOGIC MSI P6N SLI-FI NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI Intel Quad Core Ready

MEMORY 4GB Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4 X 2 DDR2 800MHz Memory (4 X 1024MB)

HARD DRIVE 1 WD Raptor 150GB WD RAPTOR S-ATA 10000RPM 16MB Cache Hard Drive

HARD DRIVE 2 None.

RAID SETTING None.

VIDEO CARD SLI SLOT 1 nVidia GeForce 9600 GT 512MB Xtreme Edition @700MHz, DVI and TV Out

VIDEO CARD SLI SLOT 2 None.

OPTICAL DRIVE 1 SONY/NEC Internal AD7190A 20X Dual Layer DVD+/- RW + CDRW Rewritable Drive

OPTICAL DRIVE 2 None.

RECORDING SOFTWARE Bundled DVD/CDRW Software

SOUND Digital High Definition 3D 7.1 8-Channel Sound

NETWORK PORT Onboard Gigabit (10/100/1000Mbps) PCI Network Card


WIRELESS NETWORK PORT None.

I/O PORTS 1 Parallel, 1 Game/Midi, 1 IEEE 1394 Firewire and 6 to 10 USB ports (Varies by Motherboards)

MONITOR Viewsonic Q19W 19" 1440X900 700:1 Widescreen LCD Monitor (Special Priced Limited Quantity)

SPEAKERS Logitech X230 2.1 3-Channel Speakers w/Subwoofer

KEYBOARD Standard Black Internet Multimedia Keyboard

MOUSE Standard Black Optical Wheel Mouse

FLOPPY DRIVE 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy Drive

OPERATING SYSTEM Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit w/Original DVD

SERVICE Standard 3 Year Limited Parts and Life-Time Labor Warranty

STORAGE MEDIA None.

SOFTWARE BUNDLE None.

ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE None.

Price: $1651.00

Is what you were trying to tell me before was that there is no 3gb limit on the 64-bit version of Vista?

[LeftEyeNine]

There has been quite some discussion here since the last time I checked.

What are your motherboard options AoW ? Brands and models please.

[Husar]

Okay, my opinion in short:

Get the 8800GT, it will beat the 8600GT SLI combo, especially in games that don't support SLI and probably in all others as well because 2 cards does not equal two times the performance, just around 1.66times or so usually, maybe even less. Keep in mind the 8600GT is quite a bit slower than the 8800GT which is a really good card from what I have read.
Not entirely sure but from past examples I would think the 7600GT is slower than the 8800GT, no matter the obvious numbers like core speed or memory, I bet the 8800GT has more shader units etc and thus a lot more processing power, the numbering in the names of the cards s very often very misleading.

The 650i mainboards are the same or even a bit faster in gaming performance than the 680i boards, the 680i boards have more additional stuff like more USB ports etc and provide more bandwidth for such things, shuffling data around etc. If your main concern is gaming, I'd go with the 650i, no need to spend 100$ more on additional USB bandwidth if you use USB only for printing and don't need your mainboard as your virtual penis enlargement(I have to say that, my Core2Duo runs stable on a 55EUR AsRock board for over a year now ). Wait, of course if you want to overclock you may also need a better board but then you don't seem to have the knowledge for that anyway, no insult, I never dared trying that either.

Get Vista Home Premium or Ultimate(like the 680i boards only if you want really advanced stuff or a virtual enlargment) 64bit with 4 GB of RAM(yes, 64bit supports more than 3GB and should run faster on a 64bit CPU as well).
I have 64bit Business and despite some older games everything runs fine for me. Some are not that "lucky" apparently and others like to keep their very old games around so if you want that, maybe keep your old computer for these or go with XP but keep in mind Vista is the future.

edit: stupid me, I said short, sorry.

[LeftEyeNine]

Is 64bit OS backwards compatible ?

[Xiahou]

I haven't looked lately, but back when I built my PC the 8800 with half the RAM was a good deal, imo. It was significantly cheaper and the performance difference was almost negligible under most applications. If it's still substantially cheaper, I'd go for it if you're up against your budget limit. If it becomes a bottleneck later, a video card is a simple upgrade.

[ArtistofWarfare]

thanks guys...

Goin with the 64 bit home Premium Vista w/ 4 gigs of RAM...

As said, it's the future...

The last thing I need to pick quick is the graphics card and then I'm calling them up and beginning the ordering process.

Nvidia 9600 GT 700mhz...will this outperform or come really close to an 8800 GT 6xx mhz?

As said, I owe everyone a round when this is all over...which it will be later today.

[Husar]

http://en.expreview.com/2008/01/14/9...h-and-reviews/

That page has some graphics further down where you can see the performance difference for yourself, the 8800GT is faster but whether you consider it worth it depends on you and the price difference I guess.

[ArtistofWarfare]

http://en.expreview.com/2008/01/14/9...h-and-reviews/

That page has some graphics further down where you can see the performance difference for yourself, the 8800GT is faster but whether you consider it worth it depends on you and the price difference I guess.

Thank you- I used this and another chart similar to it...

Well guys, I have to make a couple phone calls quick but I'll be hanging around here the next week or so...

I ordered it. It's done.

Vigor Gaming Hornet NE Custom Built w/ monitor, speakers, subwoofer, etc.

Will be here March 12th or sooner...guaranteed.

Specs:

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6750 at 2.67GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 4M Cache

RIG Vigor Cooler Master CM 690 Screwless Chassis

RIG COLOR Black

RIG STYLE None.

RIG COOLING Vigor Cool BlastTM Cooling System with Triple 120MM Case Fan

RIG POWER Corsair CMPSU-620HX X Series nVidia-SLI Certified 620Watt Power Supply

RIG DIMENSIONS 8.39" Width X 20.65" Depth X 18.98" Height.

MB CORE LOGIC MSI P6N SLI-FI NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI Intel Quad Core Ready

MEMORY 4GB Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4 X 2 DDR2 800MHz Memory (4 X 1024MB)

HARD DRIVE 1 WD Raptor 150GB WD RAPTOR S-ATA 10000RPM 16MB Cache Hard Drive

HARD DRIVE 2 None.

RAID SETTING None.

VIDEO CARD SLI SLOT 1 nVidia GeForce 8800 GT 512MB Xtreme Edition @660MHz, DVI and TV Out

VIDEO CARD SLI SLOT 2 None.

OPTICAL DRIVE 1 SONY/NEC Internal AD7190A 20X Dual Layer DVD+/- RW + CDRW Rewritable Drive

OPTICAL DRIVE 2 None.

RECORDING SOFTWARE Bundled DVD/CDRW Software

SOUND Digital High Definition 3D 7.1 8-Channel Sound

NETWORK PORT Onboard Gigabit (10/100/1000Mbps) PCI Network Card

WIRELESS NETWORK PORT None.

I/O PORTS 1 Parallel, 1 Game/Midi, 1 IEEE 1394 Firewire and 6 to 10 USB ports (Varies by Motherboards)

MONITOR Viewsonic Q19W 19" 1440X900 700:1 Widescreen LCD Monitor (Special Priced Limited Quantity)

SPEAKERS Logitech X230 2.1 3-Channel Speakers w/Subwoofer

KEYBOARD Standard Black Internet Multimedia Keyboard

MOUSE Standard Black Optical Wheel Mouse

FLOPPY DRIVE 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy Drive

OPERATING SYSTEM Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit w/Original DVD

With Rush, Tax, etc etc etc....$2,105. I went balls to the wall, spending hundreds of my own money that I just flat out cannot afford right now.

Only live once right?

I went with the 8800 GT extreme, as it flat out does outperform the 9600 and is clearly, the graphics card that is future proof...not the 9600.

I went with 32 bit vista because I can upgrade to 64 bit any time I want. Being that there really aren't any 64-bit OS games out there for the next year or so, I'll be just fine with this. Again, future proof.

From everything I checked, this system should either flat out, or come close, to maxing Crysis. Who would agree with that assessment?

[ArtistofWarfare]

What are your motherboard options AoW ? Brands and models please.

http://vigorgaming.com/product/config_hornetne.html

That was the entire setup...all options...

Went with the MSI 650i over the Asus 650i. It (MSI) was the default MB with that build, and slightly cheaper...yet from what I've read, is just as good if not slightly better than the Asus. Specifically in Strategy/War games. When it comes to FPS, Asus might have a slight edge at times.

I got the impression that they're both 10/10 MB's, and it's really just a flip of the coin between the two of them.

Still, as I also gathered was probably the most important- It's SLI Intel Quad Core Ready. Already running dual core with this rig obviously...

added w/edit: Oh and Vigor has been exactly what I was looking for so far. Perfect core sets, and the customer service was phenomenal. I was on the phone with them for over 1.5 hours (my diligence as well as theirs) and I've never had a more pleasant conversation when ordering a product in my life. Now of course I jinxed it and the $600 Dell will show up by mistake...but still. Has to be said.

[Husar]

I went with 32 bit vista because I can upgrade to 64 bit any time I want. Being that there really aren't any 64-bit OS games out there for the next year or so, I'll be just fine with this. Again, future proof.

I play all my games in my 64bit Vista, just like almost all other 32 bit applications run under 64bit Vista.

[ArtistofWarfare]

I play all my games in my 64bit Vista, just like almost all other 32 bit applications run under 64bit Vista.

/shrug

I spent a good 5 minutes on the phone with them on just that...All the engineers were pretty emphatic that the 32 bit would be the optimal performance with this computer.

Further, and this is the really important issue...Considering the price is not too much to buy a 64 bit version of Vista, I could just plop it in there at any time I wanted.

Again...most likely when I add the 2nd 8800 GT Extreme, I'll add the 64-Bit Vista. It just doesn't sound like it would be advantageous for me to do that now, other than if I didn't want to worry about a 64-bit OS upgrade in the future. I really don't mind. As LEN was saying, we're talking very high end, "outpace" the tech features here and I'm already getting something 100x better than what I imagined.

When the 64-bit products start rolling out, I'll jack it up to 64-bit. Assumably beforehand. I'll probably upgrade again around Christmas...I doubt we'll be seeing 64-bit products by then from what I've gathered here.

The real decision I had to make was whether or not to get Vista. I'll take the Dx10 and run with it ya know?

[Charge]

but from what I understand you cant use 4gigs of RAM with 32bit...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

but from what I understand you cant use 4gigs of RAM with 32bit...

You can't. Even less if you have a larger video card. Realistically, I think he might be getting 3GB effective RAM or so.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Correct...

That's what I was saying..

When I add a second Nvidia 8800GT, I'll upgrade to 64-bit Vista. Unlocking my 4th Gig which I won't need to upgrade at that point. Just the OS and probably the card.

Not that any of this is necessary...3 Gigs and 32-bit should be ok in the meantime, correct?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Not that any of this is necessary...3 Gigs and 32-bit should be ok in the meantime, correct?

That's plenty for a well functioning gaming PC.