UK Politics Thread

**rory_20_uk** · 12-13-2017, 10:18

Originally Posted by Pannonian

There may be differing views on the role of the state in Britain's economy. However, when even right wing US free marketeer think tanks conclude that the UK economy will significantly contract as a result of Brexit, why will it matter who is in charge? We'll all be in the crap, excepting the super rich who will be able to exploit the basket case that is post-Brexit Britain (cf. John Redwood's financial advice). How that crap will be distributed makes little difference.

And for that reason, I judge a politician on whether or not they're urging me to drink the kool aid. And I'll despise any politicians who urge it while making alternative arrangements for themselves.

Ah yes, the WTO rules... Which we trade with Japan, USA, China, India, Brazil... the list is rather long. And somehow we manage to trade. Hardly optimal, but not going to end the country.

The super rich already can exploit the overseas money rules. They are pathetically easy to exploit - and cost merely a few thousand pounds to have a nice offshore Foundation with a "professional" local on the Board which means finding out the owner is almost impossible (since no books nor list of creditors is required). I found this out in about 10 minutes. Neither the Tories nor New Labour fixed this. Nor for that matter did Old Labour.

The economy will almost certainly contract, at the very least in the short term. Which puts pressure on investor / consumer confidence in the UK. Because since we run a large deficit even with the Eeeeevil Tories in power we need more to have the ability to sell money on the international markets.

If the Markets are not prepared to lend - due to the fiscal policies - then interest rates go way up and financing the debt becomes a problem. And if we are very unlucky with Corbyn nationalizing the Utilities and God knows what else debt will be truly vast. Or will he just wipe out the shareholders (which are often Pension funds since the utilities are "safe")? Then all the Banks will quickly offshore as the last vestiges of reasons to remain in the UK disappear. Possibly never to return - both no longer the gateway to Europe and the scare of electing utter nut jobs to be PM why take the risk?

Corbyn is a believer. He is an idealist. He would destroy the UK without remorse since he believes he would make something better from its ashes. Merely that he is prepared to go down with the ship doesn't make me like him any more for steering it towards the iceberg.

**Pannonian** · 12-13-2017, 12:57

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Ah yes, the WTO rules... Which we trade with Japan, USA, China, India, Brazil... the list is rather long. And somehow we manage to trade. Hardly optimal, but not going to end the country.

The super rich already can exploit the overseas money rules. They are pathetically easy to exploit - and cost merely a few thousand pounds to have a nice offshore Foundation with a "professional" local on the Board which means finding out the owner is almost impossible (since no books nor list of creditors is required). I found this out in about 10 minutes. Neither the Tories nor New Labour fixed this. Nor for that matter did Old Labour.

The economy will almost certainly contract, at the very least in the short term. Which puts pressure on investor / consumer confidence in the UK. Because since we run a large deficit even with the Eeeeevil Tories in power we need more to have the ability to sell money on the international markets.

If the Markets are not prepared to lend - due to the fiscal policies - then interest rates go way up and financing the debt becomes a problem. And if we are very unlucky with Corbyn nationalizing the Utilities and God knows what else debt will be truly vast. Or will he just wipe out the shareholders (which are often Pension funds since the utilities are "safe")? Then all the Banks will quickly offshore as the last vestiges of reasons to remain in the UK disappear. Possibly never to return - both no longer the gateway to Europe and the scare of electing utter nut jobs to be PM why take the risk?

Corbyn is a believer. He is an idealist. He would destroy the UK without remorse since he believes he would make something better from its ashes. Merely that he is prepared to go down with the ship doesn't make me like him any more for steering it towards the iceberg.

Everything you've said about Corbyn can be equally applied to the neolib Brexiters. And as Farage and Redwood demonstrate, they're not even willing to stay with the ship after having steered it towards the iceberg.

**rory_20_uk** · 12-13-2017, 13:14

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Everything you've said about Corbyn can be equally applied to the neolib Brexiters. And as Farage and Redwood demonstrate, they're not even willing to stay with the ship after having steered it towards the iceberg.

Whether leaving the EU is an iceberg is very debatable - I would argue having drifted so far into the EU is the problem and then pain we are experiencing is very much how the closer one is to a black hole the greater the cost to get away from it - it would have been a lot easier one or two decades ago than it is now; if we had bowed to demands to ditch the pound the difficulty would be all the greater. Sorry about mixing metaphors, but icebergs only really have the detrimental effect once they are hit; black holes have their effect at a longer distance.

I have my political views, I'm not emotionally tied to one party or group of people and I'll try to defend their self-serving antics. Corbyn also has his pension from being an MP, and that is a lovely final salary and index-linked so even in the wildest hells he unleashes he'll be fine. It is just most others who will be destitute.

It probably is people such as you and I who both have their job and all their assets linked to the UK rather than our Dear Leaders of any stripe. I can try and get part of my pension invested abroad, but that's about it.

**Pannonian** · 12-13-2017, 13:57

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Whether leaving the EU is an iceberg is very debatable - I would argue having drifted so far into the EU is the problem and then pain we are experiencing is very much how the closer one is to a black hole the greater the cost to get away from it - it would have been a lot easier one or two decades ago than it is now; if we had bowed to demands to ditch the pound the difficulty would be all the greater. Sorry about mixing metaphors, but icebergs only really have the detrimental effect once they are hit; black holes have their effect at a longer distance.

I have my political views, I'm not emotionally tied to one party or group of people and I'll try to defend their self-serving antics. Corbyn also has his pension from being an MP, and that is a lovely final salary and index-linked so even in the wildest hells he unleashes he'll be fine. It is just most others who will be destitute.

It probably is people such as you and I who both have their job and all their assets linked to the UK rather than our Dear Leaders of any stripe. I can try and get part of my pension invested abroad, but that's about it.

If you're trying to get me to admit that Corbyn is no better, then you won't get any resistance from me. I despise the man and the politician.

**Fragony** · 12-13-2017, 15:12

Hard to dispise the man, he seems like a nice guy. I wouldn't like the politician either though, insanity is trying to same thing and expecting different results. But at least he really believes he isn't insane, but then again he would plunge you into a communist nightmare and won't listen to anyone once things start going wrong, good people can become the worst