Trump
Hillary
Johnson
Stein
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
So this is fun.... Trump may be violating the lease for his new DC hotel by being elected president.
TL;DR, the landlord for his new hotel is, in fact, the federal government. As such, the lease states that no elected official can be party to the lease.
Seeing as how this is going to be one of Trump's main avenues for graft, I'm sure his attorneys will find a way around this. But I hope he at least has to squirm a bit.
Last edited by Xiahou; 12-01-2016 at 19:25.
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
Trump will be the next teflon president.
You mean to say that in this society, the rich and powerful can get away with whatever they like, while the prisons are bulging with poor petty criminals? I'm shocked!
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
James Mattis is the pick for Defence Secretary - something that has been welcomed by both sides of the camp, both Democrats and Republicans.
Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.
Proud
Been to:
Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.
A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
"The republicans will draft your kids, poison the air and water, take away your social security and burn down black churches if elected." Gawain of Orkney
Wrong doesn't become right and corrupt doesn't become honourable just because you agree with their ideology.
Obama had his share of scandals too.... I'll name a few:
Operation Fast and Furious
Benghazi
IRS targeting of conservative organizations
DOJ surveiling reporters
Obama paying Iran ransom for hostages
The Secret Service scandals
I'm sure I could find more... but that's a good start.
Last edited by Xiahou; 12-02-2016 at 22:18.
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
Beware! Many people said that Trump would never be president......
And I find it interesting that Hillary is leading in every internet forum poll that I look at. Most of the Americans I know of are either Trump supporters or didn't pay attention to his speeches. Very few were against him. It's probably because of the region that I live in.
Last edited by Shaka_Khan; 12-02-2016 at 23:41.
Wooooo!!!
I never understood why this stood in common perception.
It's false - and it's a legal dispute that dates back to 1979 - the Iran money was the money of Iran to begin with, the United States simply returned it. The US held money that was Iran's own, it was returned to the rightful owner.
The Shah of Iran paid 400 million US Dollars for military equipment which was never delivered. The money was returned by the USA.
Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.
Proud
Been to:
Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.
A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?
Seems like it was unclear or maybe even interpreted/intended differently on both sides of the exchange:
http://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/
I'm curious what you mean by "The Secret Service Scandals" @Xiahou? That he didn't catch Snowden or that Snowden hd something to expose in the first place? Of course for me the only scandal there is that your government is spying on my private communication, but I blame the one who started it (Bush) more than the one who "merely" maintained it. The drone killings are in the same league in that regard.The “sweetener” view may have some validity. Sick concedes that the deal did “let the Iranian hardliners say they got something in the nuclear deal. Iran was happy to get the cash back. Perhaps that made it easier for them to give up the prisoners, I don’t know.” He doesn’t believe the three teams of negotiators were working together. “The negotiations for the hostages were totally separate channels, and handled by the Swiss,” he says.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Secret Service handles anti-counterfeiting and presidential protection, not those other things you mentioned. They got dinged repeatedly over the course of a year or so during the Obama administration for letting people penetrate the perimeter while carrying weapons, letting people in to White House events without checking ID/insuring they were on the guest lists, and in at least one case for taking a group of whores up to the hotel to party while on a Pre-presidential visit security prep trip.
The scandals occurred on BHO's watch, but it struck me more along the lines of a bureaucracy gone complacent and sloppy ethics.
Snowden was with No Such Agency, and the programs he objected to were begun under the Patriot Act (Bush 43) but very much continued under BHO.
The drone strikes were mostly conducted by the CIA, who operated armed drones years before the military used them for more than imaging/painting targets. Drone strikes were begun under Bush, but (in part due to the maturation of the technology and in part by executive decision) BHO's administration oversaw far more drone strikes than did the Bush administration.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Yes, you're right, I hastily confused Secret Service with Secret Agencies.
Considering how many TV series involving all of them in some capacity I watch, that is actually inexcusable.
I agree with you on the Secret Service scandals and I would say there are a few more that Xiahou listed which are not micromanaged by the President most likely. One could blame him for choosing the people responsible, but even that can go a bit far considering that hiring the wrong people for a job happens to a lot of people all the time if you think about it.
The one "good" thing about Obama and drone strikes is that IIRC under his administration the average amount of civilian casualties per strike was heavily reduced. Of course ideally there should be none, but if that's not a choice, reducing them is the least one can do I guess.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
I think that's fair, it's not as though Obama ordered them to sleep with prostitutes. At the same time, the buck stops there and all that- I don't think Bush would've gotten a complete pass for repeated misbehavior of his security detail, and Obama shouldn't either.
Oh, that reminds me of another scandal- the Veterans Affairs hospitals. Again, Obama wasn't directly responsible for their negligence- but he does bear a share of responsibility for his inability to clean it up during his 8 years in office.
Last edited by Xiahou; 12-03-2016 at 03:29.
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
As much newer tech as anything. The MEDIA may report all of them as Hellfires, but that is far from the only one in use and the newer stuff is far more discriminating and easier to target. Not yet a sniper rifle in the sky, but heading that direction.
The Hellfire was kludged onto the early CIA predators to give them a punch, but it weighs about 100 pounds traditional measure and was designed to target tanks and bunkers with a big boom and who cares about collateral damage. Obviously, even the newer Hellfires have been upgraded.
And, YES, BHO did have his people pay more attention to some of the shoot/no shoot conditions -- though you could judge that badly from an effectiveness perspective.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
The VA hospitals have been an ongoing scandal since at least the Tet offensive days....LOTS of blame to go around there.
I do agree with you, however, that Bush-43 could have announced that "Wednesday" was originally named in honor of Odin All-father.....and STILL got flack for it from at least 15% of the media along with half or more of them arguing he was being culturally insensitive to the descendants of those Norse raiders of old.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Trump is apparently going to set aside all his businesses whilst President, so don't worry he won't be breaking the law but the money will be there for him when he's done (assuming his kids let him have it).
So how about Trump and China, eh?
If he actually enacts a "Two China" policy I'm going to have to take my hat off to him and admit I agree with it, in principle at the very least.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
He says he will- but it remains to be seen. Even if he does formally yield control of his business interests- he's yielding them to his children. The end result would be little different than if he maintained control.
So, while I have no doubt he'll be massively corrupt, I do still hope that Trump can do some good for the country while he's in office. He hasn't even been sworn in yet, so I can still hope.If he actually enacts a "Two China" policy I'm going to have to take my hat off to him and admit I agree with it, in principle at the very least.
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
X-man:
As to the financials, we are in uncharted territory here. Washington and Jefferson were men of wealth for their era, but communications of the era and the way finances were structured required that they provide written instructions to someone to manage their property for them and NOT maintain anything more than a distant oversight. Our modern rich politicos were all, functionally, professional politicians before taking the Presidency, so they had the blind-trust or whatever systems ironed out completely in advance. Not so "The Donald." And our other "First political job is the Presidency" types were all generals (Grant, DDE) -- who never have any heavy money. This is uncharted territory -- for good or for ill.
As to the corruption, it is impossible to say. I don't think Trump enough of a putz to make national decisions based on moving Trump industries from 8 to 12 billion in value, but he has ALWAYS been operating among the rich and powerful corporation circles and he probably trusts their judgement in a way that few populist politicians ever have. He is certainly demonstrating a willingness to employ 'heavy money' types over 'heavy academic' types thus far. His personal argument during that campaign, that he was effectively too rich to be bribable, may or may not be a good basis for minimizing corruption.
On the other hand, it is not as though other politicians were not worse. Remember, it was that populist Jackson (after winning the popular vote twice and finally getting elected on the second try) who ramped up the patronage thing and supposedly remarked "If there is any federal job that can't be filled by a Democrat, I want the JOB abolished," and other political professionals like Harding (Teapot dome etc.) and Nixon [Enemies list, Watergate, etc.) with major corruption concerns. Heck, even Carter had Bert Lance forced to resign for corruption reasons, and whatever I think of his presidency or judgment, Carter's personal ethics were and are above reproach.
But Taylor, Eisenhower, and Grant (all, like Trump, beginning their political careers at the Presidential level) each had problems with subordinates nuzzling at the trough. In each case a general found that you could not command a government and keep a government under discipline anywhere close to what you could do with an army. There are, of course, worries that a CEO -- used to saying do this and having people jump through hoops to do that -- will have the same kind of trouble. I hope not, but.....
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
I doubt (hope) Trump will be no more corrupt than any other politician.
With tax breaks up-chain and I believe "enhanced" budgets for defence and security, the deficit will balloon.
Like under Regan and Bush, that will all be "ok" because Republicans are doing it.
So, more jails to accommodate an renewal of the war on drugs; more gadgets for the military (useful and not)
Will the next civil war be over cannabis? http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...rijuana-214501
Ja-mata TosaInu
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us...rump.html?_r=0
More excellent choices by the president-elect.WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump has selected Scott Pruitt, the Oklahoma attorney general and a close ally of the fossil fuel industry, to run the Environmental Protection Agency, a transition official said, signaling Mr. Trump’s determination to dismantle President Obama’s efforts to counter climate change.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Some musing about recursion of negative assessments from the West to the third world:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...123725710.html
Without the palm trees, can a banana republic still occur?
Ja-mata TosaInu
The hysteria train keeps on rolling; presented to you by the qatari propaganda arm.
Last edited by Greyblades; 12-11-2016 at 00:43.
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