Trade suggestions

[Earl of Sweden]

I was thinking a bit on how the trade system now works and it disturbs me just a little that you cant trade with yourself.

I think that this doesnt really reflect the reality. I know its a wargame and not an tradegame but still....I think that the highest revenue should come from items that are the most rare to each region and luxury items. I know that this poses some problems as coastal domination early on would mean ecomnomic domination if you can trade with yourself but this should be easliy fixed with the right prices for each product to each region. As for some factions getting a bad starting position out of this I think that can be nerfed with the starting amount of florins.

Also inland trade could be tweaked so that you could build traderoutes along big rivers in a region in order to trade more efficient to the neighbouring countries. This ofcourse applies to those regions that have big rivers running thru them.

Just some ideas, Im sure I havent thought of all possible downsides to this.

[Hakonarson]

I think the idea is that you, as king (or whatever) only get money from trade with foreigners.

I'm not really sure of teh specifics of medieval economics, but it makes a bit of sense.

None-the-less some of the trade provinces are historically end points for trade routes estendign off the map - especially those in the Mid-East like Antioch and Egypt - these areas had extensive land or sea connections to India, Sth East Asia, China, etc.

Even if a ruuler controlled all of Europe and hte Mid East he'd still get a killing from these sources.

Perhaps then trade should be distinguished between those goods generated in the province, and those imported from outside teh MTW map.

For the later you'd actually INCREASE your profit when you controlled more of teh map, since there'd be less in the way of independant trade going on??

IMO this is one reason why this map isn't suitable for later period games - say after 1550 - there's no provision for the trade generated by overseas empires like the Americas, India, Africa, etc., so Spain and England and Portugal (particularly) would be unable to be properly represented.

[Dionysus9]

As important as trade is in MTW, it is underdeveloped. But it is a huge advance from STW, so we can't expect a miracle.

Is anyone going to suggest the IRS doesn't make a TON of money by all the internal trade going on in California?

Internal trade is a good source of revenue. I think the developers decided, for a number of reasons some of which you've touched on, to just make foreign trade more lucrative. I think they based this on the fact that a medieval king would tax the holy bajesus out of foreign trade goods. A similar policy for internal trade goods would anger the populace and local (often very powerful) merchant guilds.

[Magraev]

I dunno how medieval economics worked, but a simple fact of modern economics is, that you can't get rich cutting each others hair (or as Keynes would have it: building pyramids).

Simply put: You need cash brought in from outside your own economy.

I like the idea about trade along rivers if it could be implemented.

[Hakonarson]

You already have income from internal trade - it's your taxes!!

[hrvojej]

And don't forget that the trading post is a "local shop selling local goods to local people". In other words, you get a small local revenue from trade, such as the one in the landlocked provinces, so you are in fact trading with yourself.

[Magraev]

yeah it's just never going to make you rich. Probably like a trade tax (MOMS in Denmark).

To make a difference you need an export market. (boring economics here)

[chunkynut]

Quote Originally posted by Magraev:
I dunno how medieval economics worked, but a simple fact of modern economics is, that you can't get rich cutting each others hair (or as Keynes would have it: building pyramids).

Simply put: You need cash brought in from outside your own economy.

I like the idea about trade along rivers if it could be implemented.[/QUOTE]


Thats not specificly true or there would be no farming or mine income!!!

If teritory A and teritory B (all govened by the same faction) have differing goods. A sells goods to B if there is a land connection and a trade post. This is what happens now and money is made.

But if you have a sea route and A and B have differing goods then you can tax these goods. Any internal trade in the UK still pays VAT (value added tax) of 17.5% ... as does external.

In medieval times tax on export would have been high on goods that other countries didn't have but not much higher than the taxes already inplace for trade.

Conclusion: There should be internal trade that is gained by shipping between your own teritories that is in addition to your mine and farm income.

[This message has been edited by chunkynut (edited 10-09-2002).]